Doolan - Could This Be Why He Is Dropped So Often?

[ClydebankJag]

People often ask what more Kris has to do to get a regular starting place, Archie on STV Sport says....

 

""Kris has been fantastic," the manager said. "He came back in and he scores goals, that's what he does.

 

"He doesn't always do the other side of the game and run the channels as well as what we want but he always scores goals."

 

 

 

http://stv.tv/sport/football/1351748-alan-archibald-partick-thistle-havent-given-up-on-our-season-yet/

 

[Pinhead]

Couldn't care less if he runs the channels or not tbh, let him be the striker and get goals and leave the creativity to others!

[Mr Bunny]

Couldn't care less if he runs the channels or not tbh, let him be the striker and get goals and leave the creativity to others!

 

I've seen Doolan run the channels and not get a ball aimed anywhere near him. Then he gets fed up. Get the players putting through balls he needs and you'll see him run the channels more.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Couldn't care less if he runs the channels or not tbh, let him be the striker and get goals and leave the creativity to others!

 

I've thought for years it's just not in Dools's nature to leave the creative and/or donkey work to others. Perhaps if his first touch wasn't so good he wouldn't be such a regular "out ball" for defenders and defensive midfield. In similar vein on the rare occasion we play two strikers up front Doolan's unselfishness inevitably draws himself out of position as he covers in midfield.

It's just a guess on my part but I reckon the management accept leaving Dools to just be Dools is by far the lesser of two evils. Besides signing a player that can run the channels as well as say Lyle Taylor or from the past a Stephen Dobbie/Kenny Miller type player AND finish as clinically as Doolan is more or less a pipe dream.

[jlsarmy]

Absolutely unbelievable comment from Alan Archibald , the game is all about the players you've got at your disposal , at this moment we've haven't got any attacking goal scoring midfield players who can get beyond the centre forward , so if he wants Doolan to run the channels where is the goal scoring threat going to come from ?

Don't know about anyone else but I want to see my team's centre forward score goals not run around like a headless chicken chasing meaningless balls.

Doesn't really make any sense to me when Pogba is preferred to Doolan , the phrase " stationery striker " comes to mind and don't recall Pogba running many " channels " as he neither has the pace or fitness to do so .

We're lucky Doolan appears to be the consummate professional as many other players would have told Archie to stick it.

[sick in the basin]

Hopefully Mr Pogba learns the art of running the channel over the summer - and is out of the country before the start of next season!

 

Dools has his flaws but it's unreal how often he's subbed for an inferior option - take Amoo's chance at the death yesterday for example

[Charlie Endell]

Amoo replaced Nesbitt. Doolan was replaced by Nisbet.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Kinda agree with LIB here.

 

Dools has always come across to me as the consummate team player for effort. A natural instinct player with the talent to excel. Cut his teeth in the juniors and no shame in that, but hardly a classical education in the game. Maybe if he was to engage brain more than heart he'd most likely have been poached long ago. Unselfish almost to the fault that it perhaps over effects his predatory duties. An always confident and comforting option to have, his apparent unassuming nature maybe restricts his game more than most would demand.

 

In recalling his greatest moments, his goals against Hibs and St. Perth, away in our first season up, where he took the ball on the halfway line and in the absence of support from( or arguably interference and distration of) his team mates. just did the necessary himself, took the ball at his feet ran towards the goal and stuck it away, are always near tops for me in a long list of highlights.

 

Telepathy between players would be a great signing if you could make it. And in running the channels, you need a bit of that to make those runs at the right times and be effective.

 

In defence of Archie, I'd say Dools is one of our more senior players now and it can be tough teaching an old dog ( sorry Kriss! ) new tricks, and I think that is maybe why he makes the comment.

 

But for Dool's part, I gotta say, it's maybe him that sees the better channels to run, than our youthful midfield doing what they're told rather than playing the game, sometimes.

 

We are very fortunate to have them both on board!

 

Edited April 25, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[jlsarmy]

Kinda agree with LIB here.

 

Dools has always come across to me as the consummate team player for effort. A natural instinct player with the talent to excel. Cut his teeth in the juniors and no shame in that, but hardly a classical education in the game. Maybe if he was to engage brain more than heart he'd most likely have been poached long ago. Unselfish almost to the fault that it perhaps over effects his predatory duties. An always confident and comforting option to have, his apparent unassuming nature maybe restricts his game more than most would demand.

 

In recalling his greatest moments, his goals against Hibs and St. Perth, away in our first season up, where he took the ball on the halfway line and in the absence of support from( or arguably interference and distration of) his team mates. just did the necessary himself, took the ball at his feet ran towards the goal and stuck it away, are always near tops for me in a long list of highlights.

 

Telepathy between players would be a great signing if you could make it. And in running the channels, you need a bit of that to make those runs at the right times and be effective.

 

In defence of Archie, I'd say Dools is one of our more senior players now and it can be tough teaching an old dog ( sorry Kriss! ) new tricks, and I think that is maybe why he makes the comment.

 

But for Dool's part, I gotta say, it's maybe him that sees the better channels to run, than our youthful midfield doing what they're told rather than playing the game, sometimes.

 

We are very fortunate to have them both on board!

 

Not really sure where you're coming from here, are you really saying Doolan plays more with his heart than his football brain ?, that's just not true , watch the runs Doolan makes , watch the link up play , hopefully when Erskine is back next year we'll get back to the understanding they both had with each other again. I would have said the opposite is true that Dools plays with his football brain rather than just making aimless runs. A lot of the time when Archie decides to play with 2 strikers ( not many) you can see Doolan is told to drop off the other striker and fall back into midfield.

Interested to know what is a " classical education " for a footballer , not so long ago Danny Mcgrain, Tommy Burns were learning their trade at Maryhill Juniors and probably our greatest ever player Kenny Dalglish was at Cumbernauld to learn part of his football education.

Think this really boils down to what Archie sees as his stereotypical centre forward and Dools doesn't fit the bill for this template .

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Not really sure where you're coming from here, are you really saying Doolan plays more with his heart than his football brain ?, that's just not true , watch the runs Doolan makes , watch the link up play , hopefully when Erskine is back next year we'll get back to the understanding they both had with each other again. I would have said the opposite is true that Dools plays with his football brain rather than just making aimless runs. A lot of the time when Archie decides to play with 2 strikers ( not many) you can see Doolan is told to drop off the other striker and fall back into midfield.

Interested to know what is a " classical education " for a footballer , not so long ago Danny Mcgrain, Tommy Burns were learning their trade at Maryhill Juniors and probably our greatest ever player Kenny Dalglish was at Cumbernauld to learn part of his football education.

Think this really boils down to what Archie sees as his stereotypical centre forward and Dools doesn't fit the bill for this template .

 

100% agree .

 

You are being contrary and attempting to start the proverbial fight in a telephone box.

 

Read my post again, and with reference to my evaluation of Dool's footballing brain think what I might be trying to convey with the line "...for Dool's part, I gotta say, it's maybe him that sees the better channels to run, than our youthful midfield..."

 

Making comment on his time in junior football I clearly say there is no shame in it. To be clear, "classical" does not mean traditional, and makes limited inference to value. Literally it is a comparison to the ancient greek and roman advances in the refinement of civilisation.

 

Have you ever been to a Maryhill juniors game or an Ayrshire derby with Auchinleck Talbot? ... crackin day oot... civilised and refined?.. debateable.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[Mr Bunny]

Possibly this comment by the manager shows his background as a defender. Paterson was also a defender. The attacking style of our team was built by Mcoll, MacNamara and Donnely of which group Donnelly was a forward and McNamara often played as a midfielder as did McColl. I wonder if it might be a good idea for Archie to bring in, even temporarily, a ex-forward to coach and advise the management team on how to improve our effectiveness as a strike force. Don't get me wrong, although our recent emphasis has been on being defensively solid, we are still capable of playing some very good football but we lack a real killer touch/end product.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Mr Bunny

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Possibly this comment by the manager shows his background as a defender. Paterson was also a defender. The attacking style of our team was built by Mcoll, MacNamara and Donnely of which group Donnelly was a forward and McNamara often played as a midfielder as did McColl. I wonder if it might be a good idea for Archie to bring in, even temporarily, a ex-forward to coach and advise the management team on how to improve our effectiveness as a strike force. Don't get me wrong, although our recent emphasis has been on being defensively solid, we are still capable of playing some very good football but we lack a real killer touch/end product.

 

Been an advocate of such for a while. Often wonder if Junior Mendes' imput could be or would be worthwhile growing to more than his apparently decent service as sports scientist. Is he full time? Perhaps his current role already fills his time? I dunno... maybe he already does share more coaching duties than I'm aware of?

 

Maybe it's the financial barrier that stops us adding more specialised coaching staff?

 

Different but similar, we do have a goalie coach in Galls in place. Fairly new innovation and generally considered as essential now. I know it's perhaps seen as a more specialised position than any other, that a manager might feel is not encroaching on his control of things. But it is an example of delegation of work to experience and specialist talent that can be harmonious and seen as a positive addition and not a negative intrusion, if indeed that was a concern about too many cooks.

 

I speculate, but reckon Archie would appreciate the assistance, but you've gotta find the right guy. And I think his attitude towards a temporary appointment might be, thanks but we'll maybe wait, save the expense till we can get someone in more long term. Short term deals for player is one thing but I think you maybe want to try at least to build a little more stability, clear and definite structure with your coaching staff.

[Fearchar]

Many of the comments here are pertinent and perceptive. For me, Archie does not see what a talent he has at his disposal in Doolan, and so he's wasting effort on coaching players to play with a different kind of centre-forward. Archie is at fault here - not Doolan - because he's not making best use of the players at his disposal, in this case our best goalscorer. If Doolan had more time on the park, he would score more and the team would not be struggling against the likes of Dundee.

 

Mr Bunny's proposal is actually long overdue for action: if your team is not getting enough goals and your management team is made up of defenders, what's the next step? As things stand, the preferred attacking style is not succeeding but it is giving away possession and unnecessarily putting the team under pressure at the back instead of creating goal-scoring opportunities. That's why the team is in mid-table/relegation instead of pushing for the top. Repeatedly this season possession has been lost in the final third, launching a counter-attack with at least one defender caught out of position. If you see Pogba as the solution to that, you need advice from a coach used to getting players to score.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Many of the comments here are pertinent and perceptive. For me, Archie does not see what a talent he has at his disposal in Doolan, and so he's wasting effort on coaching players to play with a different kind of centre-forward. Archie is at fault here - not Doolan - because he's not making best use of the players at his disposal, in this case our best goalscorer. If Doolan had more time on the park, he would score more and the team would not be struggling against the likes of Dundee.

 

Mr Bunny's proposal is actually long overdue for action: if your team is not getting enough goals and your management team is made up of defenders, what's the next step? As things stand, the preferred attacking style is not succeeding but it is giving away possession and unnecessarily putting the team under pressure at the back instead of creating goal-scoring opportunities. That's why the team is in mid-table/relegation instead of pushing for the top. Repeatedly this season possession has been lost in the final third, launching a counter-attack with at least one defender caught out of position. If you see Pogba as the solution to that, you need advice from a coach used to getting players to score.

 

I generally agree. Archie is still struggling to make it all click. However, while I think Doolan would score more goals I gotta be honest and question if he would score enough. And it has to be some sort of mitigation that Archie has again had tough time signing players, getting them fit and having them all available.

 

As frustrating and unattractive as it is at times, we are a team, picked from a small and comparatively budget squad, that needs to defend from the front. I'm not at all saying Dools doesn't put a shift in. But, for example, and it in no way compares the respective talents of the two, my personal observation is Pogba draws more players towards him even when standing still. It's strange, the reason must be his physique, but i've convinced myself over the last few games i've seen him it's true. ... I would welcome the evidence to convince me otherwise... I'm a big Doolan fan!

 

While I agree we have been caught on the counter and were losing late goals rather than scoring them, we do still have the 4th best goals against record in the league.

 

I wouldn't say Archie is oblivious to or neglectful of the need to reform our attacking prowess. It's maybe not just a simple "easier said than done", more a case of easy done but we have to balance that with the consequences and consider if more goals right now would mean more league success.

 

I make a harsh observation, but on saturday It was dools on the park, he scored and Pogba might have failed, but we still got beat by the likes of dundee. I'd love to see us go for it more often, but.... It's a fine balance.

 

Fail to prepare prepare to fail. Hopefully we can navigate our safety sooner rather than later this year( the toss bounty defeat was huge for this reason if nothing else[.. and of course there are other factors in that disappointment]) and then perhaps Archie will be in better shape to improve on previous pre-seasons and get the playing staff fully organised, settled in and ready to hit the ground running next year.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[yoda-jag]

several times before i have said it ..... marko roberts or someone of that ilk in as coach to work with strikers, attacking mids and wingers and wingbacks.

 

the more game time dools (or another striker with same or better goals to game minutes ratio) gets, the more goals they will score. compare dools ratio of goals to on pitch time and it outweighs pogbas substantially.

 

get out attacking mids, wingers and wingbacks being more direct and pacy, as well as getting in box or close to dools when balls whipped in (none of this sand wedge type crosses please, they are pish and pointless) to unsettle defenders and be there for possible second ball or ricochet would equal more goals too.

 

up the energy and work rates. bust a gut and have a proper go at opposition teams.

[Woodstock Jag]

It's interesting that the seasons we didn't struggle for goals too much we had the personnel, usually experienced and/or flair players, chipping in and creating chances. Title winning season you had Craig and Erskine especially, then we had Higginbotham (and Taylor in dribs and drabs). All Doolan really has by way of an overt goal threat in behind him at the moment is Stevie Lawless and most teams have worked out now that if you stuffily mark him Doolan doesn't really get any service whatsoever unless we, very slowly, drag the midfield and full backs into the wings and swing something in, or the midfield produce a pin-point throughball on the counter. We don't threaten teams through the middle any more and any attempts to cut in are always far too square.

 

This totally starves a centre forward unless they're a genuine target man. Running the channels in that system is a 20:80 speculative punt. Of course Doolan doesn't fare well out of that.

 

Archie has the broad strategy of our back 4 and a sitting midfielder pretty much down to a tee. What needs fixed to get the most out of Doolan is getting right what the other two central midfielders do. When Banzo has a go at teams in the middle the front diamond comes alive. When he's not there there's a gulf in the middle of the park.

 

This is a roundabout way of saying I don't think it's a striking coach we need. It's either an attacking coach or a midfield coach, and a bit more flair in the attacking three behind the main striker.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

several times before i have said it ..... marko roberts or someone of that ilk in as coach to work with strikers, attacking mids and wingers and wingbacks.

 

the more game time dools (or another striker with same or better goals to game minutes ratio) gets, the more goals they will score. compare dools ratio of goals to on pitch time and it outweighs pogbas substantially.

 

get out attacking mids, wingers and wingbacks being more direct and pacy, as well as getting in box or close to dools when balls whipped in (none of this sand wedge type crosses please, they are pish and pointless) to unsettle defenders and be there for possible second ball or ricochet would equal more goals too.

 

up the energy and work rates. bust a gut and have a proper go at opposition teams.

 

Again... I generally agree with what is said...

 

Dools is best. But I think Pogba gets a bad rap. There is the need to defend and support him (hard as that can be sometimes, i admit) if it is the case he's triggered the clause and is here for next year. We should not be writing off our own players. I'm far from convinced by him, but I'm not willing to buy into a "he's just not a player" culture after 13 starts.

 

The stats comparison is unarguable, Dool's is clearly, by far and a way, the more prolific. However, I just get the feeling there is an unfair assumption growing as Pogba has featured more as a starter towards the pressured end of a season, that he is #1 in Archie's eyes. I doubt that, I think it's more likely "horses for courses". How astute his choice of starter is arguable, but over the season Dools still has 7 more starts, 7 more appearances, the same 12 off the bench and that is consistent with previous seasons. I don't know Pogba's assists stats but according to the BBC ( dodgy, 'ken) Dools only has 1.

 

Criticism of specific games/performances is expected and should be welcomed, I agree with much of it, but I think the jury has to remain out on Pogs as a player till after he has a pre-season with us.

 

I think Archie is more or less of like mind in the style you promote. However, delivering that ethos ain't easy. He can't simply use the force ( ) or lay down commands to "make it so" (star trek... sorry wee man! ), but i don't think you and he are light years apart on philosophy. ...

 

Pacy wingbacks don't come much more pacy than Muzzy, but he's had his problems with fitness. Amoo is no slouch, but similar to Pogs taken his time fitting in and the best is hopefully to come. Attacking Mids, can be another expensive luxury where Archie's done no bad with his budget. Lawless has been regular and reliable this season if not dazzling, but then he has been asked to play left , right and centre. Our latest big hope for a place, Edwards, would maybe have come on quicker had he not been off round the planet with the Ozzieroos, or whatever they call themselves. Fraser, attacking mid? still young, I think he's still to decide and he's maybe more suited to a holding role.

 

And then of course there are those who we have had to let go and look back on with romantic idealism. O'donnel and ATS, brilliant for us, no doubt, but crossing? Never totally convinced me. Higgy, at times unplayable, but his first year was his best, missed but no disaster.

 

Bust a gut. Goes without saying. But even you must have days when you feel yer knockin yer pan in with no one noticing and mediocre results. Was that big prick Vader not one of your charges once?

Edited April 25, 2016 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[twinny]

He was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread, but I see that Steven Dobbie has been a benchwarmer for the team finishing comfortably bottom of the championship. Wiki days he was only on a one year contract. Realistic target or am I living ten years in the past? As a disclaimer, I have no idea about his fitness.

[Willjag]

I'd just like to point out that both Dundee's goals on Saturday came from runs down the right wing and a flat low ball in to a centre forward running the channels. Our defence were caught sleeping twice for both goals.

[yoda-jag]

Again... I generally agree with what is said...

 

Dools is best. But I think Pogba gets a bad rap. There is the need to defend and support him (hard as that can be sometimes, i admit) if it is the case he's triggered the clause and is here for next year. We should not be writing off our own players. I'm far from convinced by him, but I'm not willing to buy into a "he's just not a player" culture after 13 starts.

 

The stats comparison is unarguable, Dool's is clearly, by far and a way, the more prolific. However, I just get the feeling there is an unfair assumption growing as Pogba has featured more as a starter towards the pressured end of a season, that he is #1 in Archie's eyes. I doubt that, I think it's more likely "horses for courses". How astute his choice of starter is arguable, but over the season Dools still has 7 more starts, 7 more appearances, the same 12 off the bench and that is consistent with previous seasons. I don't know Pogba's assists stats but according to the BBC ( dodgy, 'ken) Dools only has 1.

 

Criticism of specific games/performances is expected and should be welcomed, I agree with much of it, but I think the jury has to remain out on Pogs as a player till after he has a pre-season with us.

 

I think Archie is more or less of like mind in the style you promote. However, delivering that ethos ain't easy. He can't simply use the force ( ) or lay down commands to "make it so" (star trek... sorry wee man! ), but i don't think you and he are light years apart on philosophy. ...

 

Pacy wingbacks don't come much more pacy than Muzzy, but he's had his problems with fitness. Amoo is no slouch, but similar to Pogs taken his time fitting in and the best is hopefully to come. Attacking Mids, can be another expensive luxury where Archie's done no bad with his budget. Lawless has been regular and reliable this season if not dazzling, but then he has been asked to play left , right and centre. Our latest big hope for a place, Edwards, would maybe have come on quicker had he not been off round the planet with the Ozzieroos, or whatever they call themselves. Fraser, attacking mid? still young, I think he's still to decide and he's maybe more suited to a holding role.

 

And then of course there are those who we have had to let go and look back on with romantic idealism. O'donnel and ATS, brilliant for us, no doubt, but crossing? Never totally convinced me. Higgy, at times unplayable, but his first year was his best, missed but no disaster.

 

Bust a gut. Goes without saying. But even you must have days when you feel yer knockin yer pan in with no one noticing and mediocre results. Was that big prick Vader not one of your charges once?

 

much of the above to argue with there is not. but to discuss a few points further .....

 

first before i start, i am stating i am proud of our continued overall progress this season under archie, but believe it could have been so much better this season. so with that out the way .....

 

i'm not in the pogba isn't a player camp, nor am i writing him off (hoping next season is much better for him i am, especially with full preseason and now having got to know rest of squad well over the year), but without stats to hand, and in response to your musings ..... it's not only dools prolificness in the goal scoring to minutes played stats to those of pogba, i also believe as a team we are more prolific when dools in on park as opposed to pogba ..... so pogba (and rest of team) have to step up their game when pogba is on the pitch.

 

if archie is of the same attacking style ethos i am seeking, then i'd like to see more evidence of it ..... while your naming and mitigating factors excuses are valid in varying degrees, they are not automatically pointing to a get out for us not playing the attacking style we know we can excel at ..... yes, you have to take into account the opposition in each game and tweak your play to suit to a degree, but that does not give a free pass to us failing to impose our pace and attacking prowess on opposition teams, as plenty of times we all see it from the stands, spaces to run into and drive forward stretching opposition defences, but instead we look for the sideways or slow pass, and move breaks down. so if archie does want that, why isn't he instructing the players to do it, and if they aren't doing it, why does he let them keep playing that way, or picking them? yes, we don't have a huge squad, but there has been plenty scope to play alternative lineups, or even during matches giving them a rollicking to do as he says? eight out of eleven teams in our league are clearly no better than us, and we are the best of that eight as tjr's recent tables in stats thread showed. but since the turn of the year we have not been an enjoyable team to watch, hardly score in first half (especially if we are at home shooting towards northy).

 

it does give me hope for next season, with full preseason for amoo, pogba, edwards, and even muzzy ..... plus the return of the bridge ..... that we can kick on and have that attacking style of pacy play next season, and not just for three or four games before we go back to slow tiki taka and pointless dead ball situations. i also believe if we consistently played the attacking pacy play we'd like to see, crowds would rise ..... let's be honest, how many of us have enjoyed (for example) the turgid abject fare of saturday? or any number of games the last few months where for example we have hardly registered one shot on goal in, or carried any threat from dead ball situations?

 

sod and ats were over rated in crossing abilities, for every good ball in, there were a dozen wasted feeble attempts, and higgy had a six month excellent period with rest being a mixture of ineffective and missy fits.

 

as for your last paragraph ..... yes have such days i do, but defeat me they do not, i use the jaggy force to do better the next days ..... and as for that prick, strong enough he was not, went to dark side and karma caught him and he ended up taking a nose dive never to be seen again ..... which reminds me, post on jakey snakenamara thread i must.

 

I'd just like to point out that both Dundee's goals on Saturday came from runs down the right wing and a flat low ball in to a centre forward running the channels. Our defence were caught sleeping twice for both goals.

 

this is what i want to see ..... but with our players doing it more than the opposition ..... we have the players who can break with pace with the ball, skin by opposition defenders and send in balls for our striker or other mids and wingers running onto to score. why are we not attempting to do this or be seen to be trying to do this with regularity?

[jlsarmy]

 

 

much of the above to argue with there is not. but to discuss a few points further .....

 

first before i start, i am stating i am proud of our continued overall progress this season under archie, but believe it could have been so much better this season. so with that out the way .....

 

i'm not in the pogba isn't a player camp, nor am i writing him off (hoping next season is much better for him i am, especially with full preseason and now having got to know rest of squad well over the year), but without stats to hand, and in response to your musings ..... it's not only dools prolificness in the goal scoring to minutes played stats to those of pogba, i also believe as a team we are more prolific when dools in on park as opposed to pogba ..... so pogba (and rest of team) have to step up their game when pogba is on the pitch.

 

if archie is of the same attacking style ethos i am seeking, then i'd like to see more evidence of it ..... while your naming and mitigating factors excuses are valid in varying degrees, they are not automatically pointing to a get out for us not playing the attacking style we know we can excel at ..... yes, you have to take into account the opposition in each game and tweak your play to suit to a degree, but that does not give a free pass to us failing to impose our pace and attacking prowess on opposition teams, as plenty of times we all see it from the stands, spaces to run into and drive forward stretching opposition defences, but instead we look for the sideways or slow pass, and move breaks down. so if archie does want that, why isn't he instructing the players to do it, and if they aren't doing it, why does he let them keep playing that way, or picking them? yes, we don't have a huge squad, but there has been plenty scope to play alternative lineups, or even during matches giving them a rollicking to do as he says? eight out of eleven teams in our league are clearly no better than us, and we are the best of that eight as tjr's recent tables in stats thread showed. but since the turn of the year we have not been an enjoyable team to watch, hardly score in first half (especially if we are at home shooting towards northy).

 

it does give me hope for next season, with full preseason for amoo, pogba, edwards, and even muzzy ..... plus the return of the bridge ..... that we can kick on and have that attacking style of pacy play next season, and not just for three or four games before we go back to slow tiki taka and pointless dead ball situations. i also believe if we consistently played the attacking pacy play we'd like to see, crowds would rise ..... let's be honest, how many of us have enjoyed (for example) the turgid abject fare of saturday? or any number of games the last few months where for example we have hardly registered one shot on goal in, or carried any threat from dead ball situations?

 

sod and ats were over rated in crossing abilities, for every good ball in, there were a dozen wasted feeble attempts, and higgy had a six month excellent period with rest being a mixture of ineffective and missy fits.

 

as for your last paragraph ..... yes have such days i do, but defeat me they do not, i use the jaggy force to do better the next days ..... and as for that prick, strong enough he was not, went to dark side and karma caught him and he ended up taking a nose dive never to be seen again ..... which reminds me, post on jakey snakenamara thread i must.

 

 

 

this is what i want to see ..... but with our players doing it more than the opposition ..... we have the players who can break with pace with the ball, skin by opposition defenders and send in balls for our striker or other mids and wingers running onto to score. why are we not attempting to do this or be seen to be trying to do this with regularity?

Agree with almost everything you say but I'm not sure we really have progressed, think our style of play has been dictated by the start we had at the beginning of the season and it was case of making sure we gathered enough points to stay in the league.

Defensively we have shut up shop and sneaked a few victories here and there but it's not been an entertaining season.

Going back to the original debate about Doolan, not sure why Archie even mentioned the " running channels " comment , IMO let Dools take the plaudits for scoring double figures for the last 6 seasons.

Take Doolans goals out of the team this season ( scored 10 from the 33 we've scored so far ) where would we be ?

 

[yoda-jag]

Agree with almost everything you say but I'm not sure we really have progressed, think our style of play has been dictated by the start we had at the beginning of the season and it was case of making sure we gathered enough points to stay in the league.

Defensively we have shut up shop and sneaked a few victories here and there but it's not been an entertaining season.

Going back to the original debate about Doolan, not sure why Archie even mentioned the " running channels " comment , IMO let Dools take the plaudits for scoring double figures for the last 6 seasons.

Take Doolans goals out of the team this season ( scored 10 from the 33 we've scored so far ) where would we be ?

 

progress in terms of points gained before split, and league position at split ..... as well as tighter at back, having better keeper in cerny, plus having (for example) booth developing into a first pick on teamsheet (okay no real permanent alternative, but think you get my point), and the excitement dumbuya creates.

regrettably a regression in entertainment value particularly this year.

agree poor start, followed by an excellent second quarter, where we were playing pacy and entertaining football, but since start of year, points per game has dropped from second quarter ..... and as you correctly state "sneaked a few victories here and there" ..... but why did we regress our style of play from turn of the year? if we had kept our second quarter form trajectory going, we would have strolled into top six, so i fail to see why we had to cease what was working in second quarter of season ..... pitches poorer yes, but that's not enough reason, as seen plenty other teams playing pacy attacking football on same surfaces.

so probably not disagreeing with you jls on your overall points, and as for your closing bringing it back to dools, agree one hundred percent with your words.

Edited April 25, 2016 by yoda-jag

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

much of the above to argue with there is not. but to discuss a few points further .....

 

first before i start, i am stating i am proud of our continued overall progress this season under archie, but believe it could have been so much better this season. so with that out the way .....

 

i'm not in the pogba isn't a player camp, nor am i writing him off (hoping next season is much better for him i am, especially with full preseason and now having got to know rest of squad well over the year), but without stats to hand, and in response to your musings ..... it's not only dools prolificness in the goal scoring to minutes played stats to those of pogba, i also believe as a team we are more prolific when dools in on park as opposed to pogba ..... so pogba (and rest of team) have to step up their game when pogba is on the pitch.

 

if archie is of the same attacking style ethos i am seeking, then i'd like to see more evidence of it ..... while your naming and mitigating factors excuses are valid in varying degrees, they are not automatically pointing to a get out for us not playing the attacking style we know we can excel at ..... yes, you have to take into account the opposition in each game and tweak your play to suit to a degree, but that does not give a free pass to us failing to impose our pace and attacking prowess on opposition teams, as plenty of times we all see it from the stands, spaces to run into and drive forward stretching opposition defences, but instead we look for the sideways or slow pass, and move breaks down. so if archie does want that, why isn't he instructing the players to do it, and if they aren't doing it, why does he let them keep playing that way, or picking them? yes, we don't have a huge squad, but there has been plenty scope to play alternative lineups, or even during matches giving them a rollicking to do as he says? eight out of eleven teams in our league are clearly no better than us, and we are the best of that eight as tjr's recent tables in stats thread showed. but since the turn of the year we have not been an enjoyable team to watch, hardly score in first half (especially if we are at home shooting towards northy).

 

it does give me hope for next season, with full preseason for amoo, pogba, edwards, and even muzzy ..... plus the return of the bridge ..... that we can kick on and have that attacking style of pacy play next season, and not just for three or four games before we go back to slow tiki taka and pointless dead ball situations. i also believe if we consistently played the attacking pacy play we'd like to see, crowds would rise ..... let's be honest, how many of us have enjoyed (for example) the turgid abject fare of saturday? or any number of games the last few months where for example we have hardly registered one shot on goal in, or carried any threat from dead ball situations?

 

sod and ats were over rated in crossing abilities, for every good ball in, there were a dozen wasted feeble attempts, and higgy had a six month excellent period with rest being a mixture of ineffective and missy fits.

 

as for your last paragraph ..... yes have such days i do, but defeat me they do not, i use the jaggy force to do better the next days ..... and as for that prick, strong enough he was not, went to dark side and karma caught him and he ended up taking a nose dive never to be seen again ..... which reminds me, post on jakey snakenamara thread i must.

 

 

 

this is what i want to see ..... but with our players doing it more than the opposition ..... we have the players who can break with pace with the ball, skin by opposition defenders and send in balls for our striker or other mids and wingers running onto to score. why are we not attempting to do this or be seen to be trying to do this with regularity?

 

If only we'd got a result at Ross county, the progress and achievement of the team would be so much easier to define. We lost out on the early safety of a top 6 place by a couple of goals. Conceding early and failing to capitalise on our superior possession to get a vital score.

 

God knows Archie's tactics for the game have been discussed plenty already. My conclusion... ... you can shuffle the pack all y'want, but if you aint got a full deck yer game's gonnae suffer. We were a baw hair away from clearly and tangibly establishing ourselves as a progressing top flight club.

 

And so, of course, sensible folks like you and me recognise - out of the bottom 6 teams, Dundee are the only ones we've really struggled with all season. The only ones we have not beaten or to have actually beaten us, and only once have they done that by more than the odd goal.

 

The importance of now scrapping for every point and prize penny so that we might have a chance next season to repeat and improve on such a noteable record, should have even the most sluvenly saturday-afternoon-oven-pizza-and-tescos-lager-watchin-sky-sports-results-sound-down-and-joining-in-the-banter-on-the-radio-armchair...... "fan" , summon up the last string vestages of his cholestorol choked pride, look out his scarf and down the side of the sofa for pie money, get his arse to Firhill, practicaly support the club, and sacrifice a little easy comfort or cheap luxury in appreciation of their quite remarkable achievment of having a chance to make the 4th season up better than the 3rd.

 

I'm not so sure "it could have been so much better this season". A different route to the same result, possibly, but it is all speculation, theory and granted, makes for some interesting discussion. Archie has walked the walk, and thus far delivered us to a point where hope remains and some light is visible on the horizon. I can understand some moaning and groaning when he might make the odd bad turning, but we're still heading in the right direction.

 

I dunno... sometime the grumbles on here are like listening to the weans in the back seat of the motor..... "are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?are we there yet?"

 

............ NAW!!! ... Just shut it and eat yer wotsits!!! ... No ... sorry ... no you Yoda ... your awright ... gonnae tell them wan ay your mad stories about spaceships and fighting 6' talking insects wi' glow sticks or something till we get there.... String it oot a bit... we've still a good bit to go.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Know what ah mean?

[Jaggernaut]

Good thread, this.

[javeajag]

The evidence from our time in the premiership is that kris will score around 10-12 goals a season

The real issue is where the other goals come from no evidence yet that pogba will get to that level

And we lack a contribution from midfield

Big issue for next season