scotty Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 17 hours ago, AndyMac said: Nevertheless, I believe that the present board are weak. They bumped Archie claiming that they were "listening to the fans", some would say the board were "listening", others would say that they folded under moderate pressure. I don't recall the board putting out this line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 24, 2018 Report Share Posted December 24, 2018 44 minutes ago, scotty said: I don't recall the board putting out this line. Scotty, my mistake, you're right they didn't feed that exact line. https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/16971971.after-pain-of-alan-archibalds-exit-jacqui-low-enthused-by-candidates-who-want-to-get-partick-thistle-back-on-track/ But it was along those lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted December 26, 2018 Report Share Posted December 26, 2018 On 12/24/2018 at 4:46 PM, AndyMac said: Scotty, my mistake, you're right they didn't feed that exact line. https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/16971971.after-pain-of-alan-archibalds-exit-jacqui-low-enthused-by-candidates-who-want-to-get-partick-thistle-back-on-track/ But it was along those lines. You can take "Knee jerk reaction" off your list as well. Archibald was told of the date that his job was going to be reviewed, and that was after the Ross County home game. The board decided that things prior to that game hadn't been good enough and decided to make a change. Whether or not they have made the correct decision with his replacement remains to be seen, but they made the correct decision with Archie and it wasn't a knee jerk reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 26, 2018 Report Share Posted December 26, 2018 8 hours ago, Jag said: You can take "Knee jerk reaction" off your list as well. Archibald was told of the date that his job was going to be reviewed, and that was after the Ross County home game. The board decided that things prior to that game hadn't been good enough and decided to make a change. Whether or not they have made the correct decision with his replacement remains to be seen, but they made the correct decision with Archie and it wasn't a knee jerk reaction. Jaf, You have faith in our board. You see them as decent, hardworking, competent, stand up people who are working solely for the best interests of Partick Thistle. If this belief gives you comfort; good luck to you. I however do not share your faith and see things as I see them. If something looks like shyte and smells like shyte, I am not going to eat it just to prove to myself that it is actually shyte. The board are cheapskates, probably one of the reasons Archie always struggled to get decent players. The board are cheapskates, so didn't want to sack Archie and Shaggy with a year on their contracts left. The support was getting angrier by the hour something had to give. The board thought it better to throw Archie and Shaggy to the wolves/out the balloon, throw them a bit of red meat/ballast overboard, in fact anything to get the fans of our backs. Hence - Knee jerk reaction. The board are cheapskates, you don't get a more damaged record than Gary Caldwell. If he was an LP he would be virtually unplayable. I bet his terms were very reasonable. "Knee jerk reaction" stays on my list along with everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 26, 2018 Report Share Posted December 26, 2018 Archie had more money than any other thistle manager and he recruited the players not the board ... our budget was very competitive to stay in the league and Archie blew it ..., our budget this season is very competitive to win promotion but Archie’s player recruitment blew it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted December 26, 2018 Report Share Posted December 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, javeajag said: Archie had more money than any other thistle manager and he recruited the players not the board ... our budget was very competitive to stay in the league and Archie blew it ..., our budget this season is very competitive to win promotion but Archie’s player recruitment blew it It was an ongoing thing with the Club over the last 4 or so years , that the recruitment of players was done at the very last minute , thus limiting us to what players were left , I’m not sure if this was a financial decision, obviously not paying new recruits till August and the other point was , not sure about Maxie and now Gerry going away on holiday when it’s a vital time to get deals finalised. From what I know there is arrogance within Caldwell that’s not going down well with some players, I doubt very much if there’s a probationary period within his contract which after the contract deals with Miles Storey and Niall Keown ( no relegation clauses ) I find absolutely astounding. Very Worried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 7 hours ago, jlsarmy said: I doubt very much if there’s a probationary period within his contract which after the contract deals with Miles Storey and Niall Keown ( no relegation clauses ) I find absolutely astounding. Very Worried May I ask why you doubt this? What we were led to believe is Caldwell's appointment was much aligned to his recognition of a squad capable of gaining promotion. Individual fitness programmes to compliment this were part of Caldwell's application presentation. It's fair then to assume that any comings and goings within the January transfer window would have no more than a marginal effect towards this objective. In other words a side issue largely irrelevant to his appointment. So given Caldwell's sales pitch I'd find it approaching incredible that our football club wouldn't have factored in some probationary/performance clause. As an aside I believe relegation clauses are a two way street, in so much as when you insert such a clause you simply pay the player more basic. I only mention that as I doubt it has any relevance to Caldwell's appointment. Anyway more to the point the Club were appointing a manager not in employment, thus holding an upper hand and, given the nature of the appointment, it would be extremely remiss not to invoke performance clauses strongly in our favour. Maybe I'm employing too much logic here and forgetting that PTFC often flies in the face of logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: May I ask why you doubt this? What we were led to believe is Caldwell's appointment was much aligned to his recognition of a squad capable of gaining promotion. Individual fitness programmes to compliment this were part of Caldwell's application presentation. It's fair then to assume that any comings and goings within the January transfer window would have no more than a marginal effect towards this objective. In other words a side issue largely irrelevant to his appointment. So given Caldwell's sales pitch I'd find it approaching incredible that our football club wouldn't have factored in some probationary/performance clause. As an aside I believe relegation clauses are a two way street, in so much as when you insert such a clause you simply pay the player more basic. I only mention that as I doubt it has any relevance to Caldwell's appointment. Anyway more to the point the Club were appointing a manager not in employment, thus holding an upper hand and, given the nature of the appointment, it would be extremely remiss not to invoke performance clauses strongly in our favour. Maybe I'm employing too much logic here and forgetting that PTFC often flies in the face of logic. Your post is entirely correct and I hope you’re right re clauses within contracts because it caused a few problems re Storey , Keown and Barton as well who we managed to move on . Keown and Storey could gave have sat tight, probably not played much and picked up SPFL wages , fortunately they both signed revised contracts. You’re right I hope we’ve learned our lesson, time will tell . Think when managers and players negotiate contracts , there is performance related bonuses depending on what position you finish and obviously promotion as well , not so sure when Caldwell’s agent was doing the deal , that getting PTFC relegated would be part of the negotiations. Hopefully there is a probationary clause in the contract and we’re not lumbered with a financial burden if things don’t get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 18 hours ago, AndyMac said: Jaf, You have faith in our board. You see them as decent, hardworking, competent, stand up people who are working solely for the best interests of Partick Thistle. If this belief gives you comfort; good luck to you. I however do not share your faith and see things as I see them. If something looks like shyte and smells like shyte, I am not going to eat it just to prove to myself that it is actually shyte. The board are cheapskates, probably one of the reasons Archie always struggled to get decent players. The board are cheapskates, so didn't want to sack Archie and Shaggy with a year on their contracts left. The support was getting angrier by the hour something had to give. The board thought it better to throw Archie and Shaggy to the wolves/out the balloon, throw them a bit of red meat/ballast overboard, in fact anything to get the fans of our backs. Hence - Knee jerk reaction. The board are cheapskates, you don't get a more damaged record than Gary Caldwell. If he was an LP he would be virtually unplayable. I bet his terms were very reasonable. "Knee jerk reaction" stays on my list along with everything else. Sorry Andy, can you remind me when I said this please? I merely pointed out that a review of the season to date was planned, thus meaning the sacking of Archibald was not a knee jerk reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milhouse Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/23/2018 at 10:03 PM, AndyMac said: We were mid table when Archie got sacked. We are now second bottom. We were 8th On 12/23/2018 at 10:20 PM, AndyMac said: We were in no real danger of relegation, nevertheless we sacked our long term manager mid season, with not one single replacement lined up. I would disagree with this. There was only one direction Archibald's side were going. Rebuilding the squad over the close season was beyond Archibald. Not that surprising, given that his player recruitment was always dreadful. He either signed crocks or picked players off Instagram. In fairness to Jacqui Low, Caldwell had a CV which included a successful playing career and winning League 1 as manager with Wigan. And people who impress at job interviews get jobs. It's why job interviews are held. I don't believe that there any other excellent candidates. If she has protected the club by having probationary/performance-based clauses in Caldwell's contract she can reasonably argue that she has done her job well. Caldwell's managerial career looks like it will be over at the age of 36, with probably only Gerry Collins with a worse record as Thistle manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 20 hours ago, AndyMac said: you don't get a more damaged record than Gary Caldwell. If he was an LP he would be virtually unplayable. Ah, but which LP? Never Mind the Bollocks immediately springs to mind or perhaps Gary's philosophical masterpiece All Things Must Pass? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 7 hours ago, milhouse said: We were 8th I would disagree with this. There was only one direction Archibald's side were going. Rebuilding the squad over the close season was beyond Archibald. Not that surprising, given that his player recruitment was always dreadful. He either signed crocks or picked players off Instagram. In fairness to Jacqui Low, Caldwell had a CV which included a successful playing career and winning League 1 as manager with Wigan. And people who impress at job interviews get jobs. It's why job interviews are held. I don't believe that there any other excellent candidates. If she has protected the club by having probationary/performance-based clauses in Caldwell's contract she can reasonably argue that she has done her job well. Caldwell's managerial career looks like it will be over at the age of 36, with probably only Gerry Collins with a worse record as Thistle manager. He also has 2 relegations on his CV. If our board has not put a probationary/performance related clause in his contract they have sold the club down the river. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 9 hours ago, Jag said: Sorry Andy, can you remind me when I said this please? I merely pointed out that a review of the season to date was planned, thus meaning the sacking of Archibald was not a knee jerk reaction. Fair cop Jag You didn't say any of those things, I was putting the words in your mouth! Think we will have to agree to disagree over the "knee jerk reaction". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 7 hours ago, milhouse said: We were 8th I would disagree with this. There was only one direction Archibald's side were going. Rebuilding the squad over the close season was beyond Archibald. Not that surprising, given that his player recruitment was always dreadful. He either signed crocks or picked players off Instagram. In fairness to Jacqui Low, Caldwell had a CV which included a successful playing career and winning League 1 as manager with Wigan. And people who impress at job interviews get jobs. It's why job interviews are held. I don't believe that there any other excellent candidates. If she has protected the club by having probationary/performance-based clauses in Caldwell's contract she can reasonably argue that she has done her job well. Caldwell's managerial career looks like it will be over at the age of 36, with probably only Gerry Collins with a worse record as Thistle manager. Gary Caldwell has gotten worse results out of the same players as Archie. We should of hired Jim Goodwin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 47 minutes ago, AndyMac said: Gary Caldwell has gotten worse results out of the same players as Archie. We should of hired Jim Goodwin. Goodwin has a secure well paid full time job away from football hence why Alloa (part time) suits him, plus Alloa are better than us why take a step down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 31 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: Goodwin has a secure well paid full time job away from football hence why Alloa (part time) suits him, plus Alloa are better than us why take a step down I wouldn't be so sure Norge. Jim has been spotted at Forth Valley College attending the "Power Point for Pros" night classes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, AndyMac said: I wouldn't be so sure Norge. Jim has been spotted at Forth Valley College attending the "Power Point for Pros" night classes It’s now part of the coaching badges course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: Goodwin has a secure well paid full time job away from football hence why Alloa (part time) suits him, plus Alloa are better than us why take a step down We will finish above Alloa, as we should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, 1 John Lambie said: We will finish above Alloa, if we hire Jim Goodwin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 27, 2018 Report Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/26/2018 at 3:52 PM, javeajag said: Archie had more money than any other thistle manager and he recruited the players not the board ... our budget was very competitive to stay in the league and Archie blew it ..., our budget this season is very competitive to win promotion but Archie’s player recruitment blew it How do you know this Seasons is competitive ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 8 hours ago, 1 John Lambie said: We will finish above Alloa, as we should. The statement “as we should “ is why we are where we are, we are not a premier league club, yet pretend we are and will waltz back up, when the reality is we have a squad of players (collectively) that are lower championship level at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: How do you know this Seasons is competitive ? Our projected income is between £3-4m If we spend 50% of that which us below last seasons ratio you have a playing budget of around £1.5- £2m ......that is competitive in this league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 16 minutes ago, javeajag said: Our projected income is between £3-4m If we spend 50% of that which us below last seasons ratio you have a playing budget of around £1.5- £2m ......that is competitive in this league Our projected income was £2.7 million as per AGM, but our attendances (like our form) have dipped since then. Spending 50% on player wages is mental, remembering VAT will also be charged on most of the income (17.5%), upkeep of stadium, office wages (12 full time), and normal expenses will eat a large percentage of the cash left after VAT, plus we have no banking facilities. Remembering last years £4million income had a £340k profit which included Liam Lyndsey transfer fee (£300k??) Celtic Champions league Bonus (£250k) all with bigger crowds, that’s 2 things we can’t rely on this year. We have no overdraft so we need to allow some spare cash to ensure we don’t go in the red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 33 minutes ago, javeajag said: Our projected income is between £3-4m If we spend 50% of that which us below last seasons ratio you have a playing budget of around £1.5- £2m ......that is competitive in this league This years projected invome is £2.7mn the player budget is £1 mn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 28, 2018 Report Share Posted December 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: This years projected invome is £2.7mn the player budget is £1 mn Excluding ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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