Ayr Utd v Thistle

[dibble]

Think we have been unlucky with injuries to arguably our best three players. Losing Holt is a major set back - outstanding player who by btw McCall brought to the club

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, laukat said:

12 goals conceded in 3 games isn't good and the defence has been a concern for most of the season.

Looking at the highlights from last night Muirhead doesn't go with his runner for the first, Brownlie has a brainfart for the second, Milne is at fault for the third and the 4th is probably more down to trying to chase the game. So many individual errors in a game tends to point to confidence being the major issue.

Whilst the formation wasn't our normal one and the performance leaves a lot of room for improvement with current injuries I'm not too sure that there is an alternative  in the short term but to go with a similar formation and starting 11 for Saturday against Raith.

Perhaps Hodson showed enough in midfield that if Docherty was fit we could play 2 defensive midfields to try and shore up the defence? Maybe Weston should be deployed as a striker rather than as a winger and hope his finishing is better than Graham, Dowds and Mullen? Or do you go to extreme levels and put Graham or Dowds in at centre-half to see if they can provide a stop gap?

Other than that we have to hope that getting minutes into Akinola and Brownlie will start to see one or both turn a corner. We desperately need a clean sheet to restore some confidence even if it blunts some of our attacking play.

Don't see too many unsigned central defenders that would help. Morton are meant to be looking at Efe Ambrose and if thats the best available then we probably need to stick with what we have until January.

There's sound logic in much you say. I maybe view things tho' from a different perspective.

Firstly Brownlie. He's hopelessly unfit. More noticeable in the first half from my viewpoint at the ground, but Ayr could and did exploit a large gap in defence ahead of Brownlie. I'd suggest that was largely down his lack of mobility. That of course could be alleviated by playing two defensive midfielders, even if the likely choice on the left, Banzo, isn't exactly suited to a defensive task. But you can't play two defensive mids plus three centre backs and expect to be positive enough to win a game. In fairness to Brownlie by necessity we had to play three right sided centrebacks and he drew the short straw to play on his unsuited side. I know he's played well at left centreback in the past but I'd suggest only when he was fully fit.

Secondly Milne. He might be at fault for the third goal but he was playing wingback, so more excusable.  

Thirdly Muirhead. The guy played with an injection on a Saturday and had to play again on a Tuesday. Might be that bit harder to go with his runner. Perhaps that was why he was chosen to play in the centre of a back three?

Like laukat I dismiss the fourth goal, as we were on all out attack by then. In fact we nearly scored a couple of times before that and we could've come away with a 3-3 draw. On play we certainly wouldn't have deserved a share of the points. But that's just what title hopefuls do, scrape up points when they're playing crap.

Imo starting a game by playing two immobile forwards AND three in central defence, in effect surrendering midfield, was a poor managerial decision. He's not been playing too good of late but McKinnon for one of the two upfront would've been a much better selection. We could've competed in midfield and stopped Ayr having a free run at our defence. Instead we go with the ball in the air, boot it up the pitch philosophy. 

laukat suggests playing Hodson and Docherty in dual central mid roles. Not a bad shout if Hodson can play there effectively enough. But please not with three centrebacks and two big centre forwards. Either play with three attack minded midfielders in front of them or if two up top have one that's mobile.   

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett

[laukat]

24 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

There's sound logic in much you say. I maybe view things tho' from a different perspective.

Firstly Brownlie. He's hopelessly unfit. More noticeable in the first half from my viewpoint at the ground, but Ayr could and did exploit a large gap in defence ahead of Brownlie. I'd suggest that was largely down his lack of mobility. That of course could be alleviated by playing two defensive midfielders, even if the likely choice on the left, Banzo, isn't exactly suited to a defensive task. But you can't play two defensive mids plus three centre backs and expect to be positive enough to win a game. In fairness to Brownlie by necessity we had to play three right sided centrebacks and he drew the short straw to play on his unsuited side. I know he's played well at left centreback in the past but I'd suggest only when he was fully fit.

Secondly Milne. He might be at fault for the third goal but he was playing wingback, so more excusable.  

Thirdly Muirhead. The guy played with an injection on a Saturday and had to play again on a Tuesday. Might be that bit harder to go with his runner. Perhaps that was why he was chosen to play in the centre of a back three?

Like laukat I dismiss the fourth goal, as we were on all out attack by then. In fact we nearly scored a couple of times before that and we could've come away with a 3-3 draw. On play we certainly wouldn't have deserved a share of the points. But that's just what title hopefuls do, scrape up points when they're playing crap.

Imo starting a game by playing two immobile forwards AND three in central defence, in effect surrendering midfield, was a poor managerial decision. He's not been playing too good of late but McKinnon for one of the two upfront would've been a much better selection. We could've competed in midfield and stopped Ayr having a free run at our defence. Instead we go with the ball in the air, boot it up the pitch philosophy. 

laukat suggests playing Hodson and Docherty in dual central mid roles. Not a bad shout if Hodson can play there effectively enough. But please not with three centrebacks and two big centre forwards. Either play with three attack minded midfielders in front of them or if two up top have one that's mobile.   

 

My suggestion of playing 2 CDM's would be to remove the need for 3 central defenders and better protect the space Milne and McMillan leave when they attack. it would require changing the team to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 which is more difficult as we would need to play Weston and Fitzpatrick as wingers in the former or Turner and Bannigan as wide midfielders in the latter. I think thats too much change to try and get right for Saturday so I think we're stuck with 3-5-2 for Raith.

Agree also that playing 3-5-2 with Dowds and Graham is the wrong personnel for that system.

Traditionally it would be a target man with a quicker clinical player alongside. If Lawless had been fit I think McCall would went Graham and Lawless. The fact he went for Graham and Dowds is probably a reflection on how off the pace Fitzpatrick and Mullen are and how inexperienced Weston is. If we continue with 3-5-2 and Tiffoney and Lawless aren't available then Weston is the only viable option.

Regarding Muirhead - I get he's playing with an injury so agree its hard to criticise too much and I suspect its more to do with him not being familiar with being on the middle of a 3. Perhaps more game time in that system would help.

[Yellow & Redneck]

The Brownlie situation is an exact replica of the Emasculated Archie and Caldwell debacle surrounding Tam O'Ware. Tam looked like a (very) solid defender before his bad injury. However, the manager hedged all his bets on him returning the same player after his injury at the expense of bringing in another player. It has p-ssed me off that we seem to have made exactly the same mistake all over again. 

[a f kincaid]

Just curious about a comment above that caught my eye (AUFC live stream available).  I thought perhaps it was a reference to subscribers outside the UK and Ireland, so I looked at Ayr's OS. Lo and behold they are advertising their next live screen being for 5 November. No mention of restriction if you live in the UK. I thought live streams were stopped this season. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

The Brownlie situation is an exact replica of the Emasculated Archie and Caldwell debacle surrounding Tam O'Ware. Tam looked like a (very) solid defender before his bad injury. However, the manager hedged all his bets on him returning the same player after his injury at the expense of bringing in another player. It has p-ssed me off that we seem to have made exactly the same mistake all over again. 

Yes, rather deja vu. Even to playing the returning from injury player struggling out on his weaker side. Thinking of yon game at East End Pk when a wrong footed O'Ware gave away a penalty.

[Barney Rubble]

Not sure why we should be dismissing the fourth goal given that it was conceded from an Ayr throw-in deep in our defensive area.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

4 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Not sure why we should be dismissing the fourth goal given that it was conceded from an Ayr throw-in deep in our defensive area.

It was scored within extra time. Perhaps we shouldn't dismiss it but we were throwing everyone forward at the time. Personally I'd rather we were gambling on an equaliser than damage limitation. The gamble didn't pay off but that's life.

[Weebaw1]

21 hours ago, partickthedog said:

One positive to draw is that the quality of our own goals has improved dramatically. Last week we were resorting to scrappy deflections. Now we can do spectacular diving headers.

Darren Brownlie's work of art reminded me of a similar own goal by an ex Thistle defender that was featured on Match of the Day in the old days when they only showed one match. My memory tells me late 1960s by Sandy Brown playing for Everton, but others may have a more accurate recollection.

Yes. Sandy Brown. I recall that incident. It was a cracker but not a diving header if I remember. Wonder if it’s on YouTube or if bbc did their usual and scrub all the tapes!
 

 He was a good player for Everton but I think his career faded after that.

[SteppsJag]

 

[Jaggernaut]

Still one of the best!

[partickthedog]

3 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

Yes. Sandy Brown. I recall that incident. It was a cracker but not a diving header if I remember. Wonder if it’s on YouTube or if bbc did their usual and scrub all the tapes!
 

 He was a good player for Everton but I think his career faded after that.

A stooping rather than a diving header?

[Jimmy McD]

Still think Brownlies is the better of the two....Unfortunately  the position of  the camera at Ayr doesn't  show to its best....Sandys was in the middle of the goal , easy to hit , Brownlie is at side he had to swivel  his head ,to bullet  it into the net....Lets hope in this weeks training we have been practicing  to score in the oppositions goal and not ours....................

[Weebaw1]

4 hours ago, SteppsJag said:

 

Ha! Thank you.

What a memory. He was dropped from my subbutteo team after that!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Brownlie picked his moment. Own goaling for a team he played for as a youth and right in front of the home end.