McCall Sacked

[jlsarmy]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Where is the Money for a New Management Team coming from - its No Secret that before we sacked the New Management Team people were being approached asking about Investing in the Club ( which as the shares are owned by the Fans not sure how that works ? ) 

Doolan and Paul McDonald are already on the pay roll , I would imagine the new management structure wouldn’t include 2 assistant managers.

I would imagine the game played on Sunday will definitely fund some of that 

[Jordanhill Jag]

Just now, Big Col said:

The Board judged that the team performances have been poor and on a downwards trajectory and therefore managerial change was needed. A significant number of the support agree. Maybe you’ve been lucky enough to attend games when the team have played well and won. Unfortunately that hasn’t been the case recently. We also need to bear in mind that some of the budget given to the manager  has been wasted on players who aren’t good enough. Add it all up and I think the decision to remove them was the right one. 

Doesnt detract from the fact that a point off a play off spot with a third of the Season to go is deemed a sackable offence and that replacement with someone with zero experience is deemed a better option 

As Ive said we miss out on a Play Off Spot -the Board Resigns 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

Doolan and Paul McDonald are already on the pay roll , I would imagine the new management structure wouldn’t include 2 assistant managers.

I would imagine the game played on Sunday will definitely fund some of that 

No it doesnt 

[sabbath]

On 2/12/2023 at 11:29 PM, Thistle88 said:

Why get Rid of McCall then? Stupidity Imo. We still could have made the play offs quite easily.. Stability is what we need not a interim manager. Also if we made the play offs and lost and let McCall go then he could have left with some respect.

We must raise the bar. "The play offs" with the pool we have at Firhill we should have walked this league, this highlighted only to well, as a manager McCall had No motivational talent what so ever. We must raise our expectations, back door through the play offs to be the whipping boys amongst all the other bottom feeders. Not for me kid. To be consistently qualifying for European football should be our ultimate aim. Ashamedly McCall and the pigeon before him were only to interested in receiving a wage at the end of the week. Scottish football is glorified Junior stuff, a half decent team should easily be a contender for European football.     

As for respect McCall should without question have been sacked after the Falkirk game, and his shameful comments he made. The board apparently implied that if he had pulled off a Darvel against the H*ns he still had a job and all that after the Hamilton & Cove debacle. This is now the time for our new board to show their metal and appoint a proper Owen Coyle manager. (or equivalent)       

[jlsarmy]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

No it doesnt 

How much do you think they would have made from that game on Sunday 

400k gate receipts less expenses

television money ?

SFA. Prize Money 

[Big Col]

4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Doesnt detract from the fact that a point off a play off spot with a third of the Season to go is deemed a sackable offence and that replacement with someone with zero experience is deemed a better option 

As Ive said we miss out on a Play Off Spot -the Board Resigns 

And if they had kept McCall on, and we didn’t reach a play off spot then that would be another season wasted. This way, we still have a shot and with new blood and ideas, hopefully the team will respond and perform better on the park and finish higher than 4th.
The fans deserved better results and team performances from a 3 man management team, instead of the guff that has been served up in recent months. The right decision has been made and you’ll see that in time.

[javeajag]

12 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Doolan and Paul McDonald are already on the pay roll , I would imagine the new management structure wouldn’t include 2 assistant managers.

I would imagine the game played on Sunday will definitely fund some of that 

The game on Sunday is financing the deficit according to Alan rough 

[javeajag]

8 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

How much do you think they would have made from that game on Sunday 

400k gate receipts less expenses

television money ?

SFA. Prize Money 

How big do you think the unfounded defect is ?

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 minute ago, Big Col said:

And if they had kept McCall on, and we didn’t reach a play off spot then that would be another season wasted. This way, we still have a shot and with new blood and ideas, hopefully the team will respond and perform better on the park and finish higher than 4th.
The fans deserved better results and team performances from a 3 man management team, instead of the guff that has been served up in recent months. The right decision has been made and you’ll see that in time.

Well we will obviously find out in the next few weeks 

[Jordanhill Jag]

9 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

How much do you think they would have made from that game on Sunday 

400k gate receipts less expenses

television money ?

SFA. Prize Money 

Best Guess £200k to £250k based on previous games of this size in the past 

[Jordanhill Jag]

15 minutes ago, sabbath said:

We must raise the bar. "The play offs" with the pool we have at Firhill we should have walked this league, this highlighted only to well, as a manager McCall had No motivational talent what so ever. We must raise our expectations, back door through the play offs to be the whipping boys amongst all the other bottom feeders. Not for me kid. To be consistently qualifying for European football should be our ultimate aim. Ashamedly McCall and the pigeon before him were only to interested in receiving a wage at the end of the week. Scottish football is glorified Junior stuff, a half decent team should easily be a contender for European football.     

As for respect McCall should without question have been sacked after the Falkirk game, and his shameful comments he made. The board apparently implied that if he had pulled off a Darvel against the H*ns he still had a job and all that after the Hamilton & Cove debacle. This is now the time for our new board to show their metal and appoint a proper Owen Coyle manager. (or equivalent)       

When did they imply if we had beat Rangers he kept his Job ? 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Best Guess £200k to £250k based on previous games of this size in the past 

Which if you read the two statements issued yesterday very carefully is not enough to cover the budget deficit from the old board 

[jlsarmy]

8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

How big do you think the unfounded defect is ?

I’ve no idea , but I reckon the game on Sunday has wiped the majority of it out .

Without that game on Sunday we were obviously in a lot of trouble , probably hasn’t cleared it totally but I’m sure it helped .

Possibly their thinking is to get a cheaper management team and start again which limits their options.

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

I’ve no idea , but I reckon the game on Sunday has wiped the majority of it out .

Without that game on Sunday we were obviously in a lot of trouble , probably hasn’t cleared it totally but I’m sure it helped .

Possibly their thinking is to get a cheaper management team and start again which limits their options.

Well it hasn’t … the statement yesterday clearly stated there were significant financial challenges even after the game on Sunday  so no it didn’t cover the deficit.

Why do you think  people are being asked for cash and we are looking for investment 

[sabbath]

11 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

When did they imply if we had beat Rangers he kept his Job ? 

For what other reason after Hamilton & Cove (twice) can you conclude. perhaps if not imply but clearly infer.

[jlsarmy]

8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Well it hasn’t … the statement yesterday clearly stated there were significant financial challenges even after the game on Sunday  so no it didn’t cover the deficit.

Why do you think  people are being asked for cash and we are looking for investment 

Sorry Javeajag, never mentioned anywhere in the statement “ after the game on Sunday “

Not sure even with Alan Rough on board they could get to even £1 million over budget for a season.

I’m sure Sunday’s game will have made a huge chunk in the deficit 

PTFC seem to always have had a very bad track record financially and relied on guys like Jim Oliver , Brown McMaster , Beattie etc to bail them out and that’s what worries me most in a fan based Club because that won’t happen again 

IMO we need to change the structure and  produce our own talent similar to Hamilton, Motherwell, St Mirren etc , and sell them on for fees .

Giving contracts to journeymen pros who have no value at the end of their contract is a pointless exercise.

We need to start rebuilding our Club again , it’ll take time but we can’t keep throwing money away to achieve maybe 4th place out of 10 in a shocking league.

[javeajag]

14 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Sorry Javeajag, never mentioned anywhere in the statement “ after the game on Sunday “

Not sure even with Alan Rough on board they could get to even £1 million over budget for a season.

I’m sure Sunday’s game will have made a huge chunk in the deficit 

PTFC seem to always have had a very bad track record financially and relied on guys like Jim Oliver , Brown McMaster , Beattie etc to bail them out and that’s what worries me most in a fan based Club because that won’t happen again 

IMO we need to change the structure and  produce our own talent similar to Hamilton, Motherwell, St Mirren etc , and sell them on for fees .

Giving contracts to journeymen pros who have no value at the end of their contract is a pointless exercise.

We need to start rebuilding our Club again , it’ll take time but we can’t keep throwing money away to achieve maybe 4th place out of 10 in a shocking league.

The statement was issued after the game on Sunday and if we still have significant financial challenges then I’m sure you can work it out…..

[sandy]

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Where is the Cash for a New Management Team coming from - TJF had to fund a player Contract extension 

This is a key point, given that the Club may also be letting Kenny Arthur go (presumably to save money). 

It also suggests that Dools will be in interim charge for longer than otherwise might be the case. I wish him well and we need to get behind him and the team. 

I have no desire to listen to what Rough says. With this debt, the previous Club Board have played a bit of a hospital pass to the fans. 

[Thistle88]

2 hours ago, sabbath said:

We must raise the bar. "The play offs" with the pool we have at Firhill we should have walked this league, this highlighted only to well, as a manager McCall had No motivational talent what so ever. We must raise our expectations, back door through the play offs to be the whipping boys amongst all the other bottom feeders. Not for me kid. To be consistently qualifying for European football should be our ultimate aim. Ashamedly McCall and the pigeon before him were only to interested in receiving a wage at the end of the week. Scottish football is glorified Junior stuff, a half decent team should easily be a contender for European football.     

As for respect McCall should without question have been sacked after the Falkirk game, and his shameful comments he made. The board apparently implied that if he had pulled off a Darvel against the H*ns he still had a job and all that after the Hamilton & Cove debacle. This is now the time for our new board to show their metal and appoint a proper Owen Coyle manager. (or equivalent)       

WTF are you smoking. 

[Norgethistle]

5 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Change to what - Someone who has never managed a Team ? 

Like Archie or Jackie Mac?

Every management change is a gamble, and as I stated I would have given him the Ayr game to see whether the change in performance was due to management or playing in front of 45000.

[Tom Hosie]

FWIW my take on things. 

Although personally I wouldn't have done so at this point, deciding that a change in management is required is a perfectly valid position to take. 

It's what has happened subsequent to that decision being made that troubles me both short and long term. 

Speculating here but is the best (only?) way out of an impending cash flow/financial crisis to win promotion to the Premiership? 

If so then the Board have decided that there is no chance of that being achieved with Ian McCall. Or at least there are better options out there. 

Again a perfectly valid position to take. 

The better option chosen though is Kris Doolan who has no managerial, or even coaching at this level, experience. 

The examples of McNamara and Archibald aren't, IMO, comporable. 

Both were part of the existing structure, Archibald in the coaching team, with a knowledge of the players and the players them. 

Dools comes into this blind. 

There isn't one of us who doesn't desperately want him to succeed. We want every Thistle manager to succeed, but Dools is a bit special. An absolute Thistle legend and a damn fine human being to boot. I suspect many of us always thought he'd be our manager one day. I know I did. 

But to thrust him into this position, unless his 'interim' appointment is genuinely short term, is one hell of a gamble. Especially if the financial wellbeing of the Club is dependent on being in the Premiership next season. 

It's an utterly inspired call if it works. Where does it leave us if it doesn't?

To finish, I think it is a sign of the  kind of man Kris is for him to step in right now. It's clear he has a deep love for our, for his, Club. I know that whatever reservations we may have over recent events, we are all right behind him. I wish him nothing but success in his tenure as our manager. 

[Lenziejag]

8 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Relative to £240k it isn’t.

Of course it isn’t - but I was comparing it to the amount of money that TJF raises. That’s why I was surprised you referred to it as not substantial. 

[Tom Hosie]

7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

 

And No -you cant have different expectations from Management Teams - if you Fire one Team for not hitting targets - then you appoint someone who will hit them ( otherwise there is no point in making the changes )  

 

 

 

Kris Doolan, or any subsequent appointment this season, isn't playing with the same pack of cards though. 

Ian McCall was given a budget to achieve his objectives. Deployed that budget and had circa two thirds of a season to put the team in a position of achieving the objectives given to him. 

The immediate succesors can't be held responsible for the perceived failings of those that went immediately before. 

Kris Doolan has no budget. Next to no ability to restructure another man's squad. He, or another, could potentially demonstrate enough coaching ability to suggest they are the man to take us forward AND finish outside the top four this season. 

[Lenziejag]

8 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Based on form and our points per game ratio, especially since the 1st quarter I think a change was needed.

Even splitting season in 2 

First 12 league matches I believe we got 23 points from 36, next 11 we got 10 points from 33.

Would I have announced it on Sunday night - No

After Sunday I would probably have given him the Ayr game, but if he had to go before I’d have done it on Monday at lunchtime. 
 

I like McColl as a manager, and as a guy to talk to, I think he’s done a lot for us in both terms and we will look back on his tenure with fondness.

I think though for whatever reason the team and himself had got stale, and change was needed sooner rather than later as we were no longer stalling but starting to slip 
 

I agree with this. Although, we had 20 points after 10 games and were top. We didn’t get to 23 until the 16th game, which took us from 7th back to 5th. Some people will look at that split and think it is even worse. But since that 10th game have we played a game when we haven’t had at least 2 key players missing ? 

[Lenziejag]

8 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Could only be for a couple of games if a new manager is appointed, Dools will a least give the supporters a lift even if it is for the short term that in itself might motivate the players.

 

Not giving the supporters much of a lift so far. No doubt, there will be a great turnout on Saturday,though.