javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, jagfox said: I did before you took the thread in a slightly different direction, mate. There are many factors to take on board. I feel taking them into account the league table is about right. The only games I think we could have taken maximum points in, but didn't were against Raith which could have put a whole different spin on our league position. Only if you disregard those other factors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 32 minutes ago, javeajag said: Correct….land the issue is whether the difference in finances are sufficiently large to in itself to make a huge difference in performance and between us and Raith there is no evidence it is. but let’s not focus on team performance, player recruitment or management. None of these teams were putting out financial Armageddon statements prior to season start, we were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 30 minutes ago, javeajag said: Correct….land the issue is whether the difference in finances are sufficiently large to in itself to make a huge difference in performance and between us and Raith there is no evidence it is. but let’s not focus on team performance, player recruitment or management. With regards to Raith, they have gone from a club making an annual loss of around £150,000 per year in front of 2000 crowds, to almost double that this season. They've signed at least three players with recent Premiership experience. They have new owners who bankrolled Kelty and are now doing the same both on and off the park. They have been able to take less chances in the transfer market, a bit like us over the previous two seasons as they had the ability to sign players outwith the budget of other Championship clubs. May be partly down to timing as they knew where they'd be playing way before us. Mostly will be done to a very healthy budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 (edited) 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes but not our best points total so … Last time I checked the number in front of your club name in the table was what mattered when it came to deciding who gets promoted, relegated, etc. And even taking your point about points it still represents our 2nd best total which does not, for me anyway, indicate some worrying level of under achieving. Edited January 1 by Fawlty Towers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 6 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: None of these teams were putting out financial Armageddon statements prior to season start, we were. Excuse number 4…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, jagfox said: With regards to Raith, they have gone from a club making an annual loss of around £150,000 per year in front of 2000 crowds, to almost double that this season. They've signed at least three players with recent Premiership experience. They have new owners who bankrolled Kelty and are now doing the same both on and off the park. They have been able to take less chances in the transfer market, a bit like us over the previous two seasons as they had the ability to sign players outwith the budget of other Championship clubs. May be partly down to timing as they knew where they'd be playing way before us. Mostly will be done to a very healthy budget. They also signed players who were free agents after the window shut … none of which explains why they have they played. Better than us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 6 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: Last time I checked the number in front of your club name in the table was what mattered when it came to deciding who gets promoted, relegated, etc. And even taking your point about points it still represents our 2nd best total which does not, for me anyway, indicate some worrying level of under achieving. Correct and last season while we were 5th as this point we made 4th by other results going our way no much real improvement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, javeajag said: They also signed players who were free agents after the window shut … none of which explains why they have they played. Better than us They have had an insane number of late goals but have gone off the boil lately. Even losing one to Arbroath's reserve keeper who had to play outfield as they were short of numbers. Football is non-binary apart from results and the league table. They have won more games than us but how do you know they've played better? We've played poorly in games but still won them this season. I wouldn't be too surprised if we finish above Raith come season's end but that could be pie in the sky thinking. I'm struggling to get what point you're trying to make? Why not give your half-time report card as the thread suggests? The truth is usually somewhere in the middle of opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, javeajag said: Correct and last season while we were 5th as this point we made 4th by other results going our way no much real improvement Doolan only lost 1 game in the regular season after he took over which did represent an improvement on the points per game prior to his appointment. Now not having a go at you because it is something a lot of people say in football which annoys me. In a league with 9 other teams and each team playing the others 4 times your final position is always going to be a combination of your results and the other teams - they literally list the number of wins, draws and losses in tabular form! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: They also signed players who were free agents after the window shut … none of which explains why they have they played. Better than us They signed a solid set of players to add to the core they retained. We lost the core and replaced them with young untried players or more experienced players with dodgy injury records. Unlike the plug and play strategy McCall enjoyed when the budget he was given, allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 7 minutes ago, jagfox said: They have had an insane number of late goals but have gone off the boil lately. Even losing one to Arbroath's reserve keeper who had to play outfield as they were short of numbers. Football is non-binary apart from results and the league table. They have won more games than us but how do you know they've played better? We've played poorly in games but still won them this season. I wouldn't be too surprised if we finish above Raith come season's end but that could be pie in the sky thinking. I'm struggling to get what point you're trying to make? Why not give your half-time report card as the thread suggests? The truth is usually somewhere in the middle of opinion. There seems to be group think that we can’t win the league because .., - we lost four players - other teams have more money - we had financial problems - we couldn’t recruit on time which seem designed to ensure we all accept we can’t get promoted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 7 minutes ago, jagfox said: They signed a solid set of players to add to the core they retained. We lost the core and replaced them with young untried players or more experienced players with dodgy injury records. Unlike the plug and play strategy McCall enjoyed when the budget he was given, allowed. You seem to be supporting my point that recruitment has been poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, javeajag said: You seem to be supporting my point that recruitment has been poor. I said most of this in my half-time/ end of year report on page one of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 (edited) 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: You seem to be supporting my point that recruitment has been poor. I gave it a generous C- rating 🤣 For me it is the main reason we aren't where Raith are. They recruited better. For a variety of reasons which you stated most of on your previous post, but seem to disregard? Edited January 1 by jagfox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, jagfox said: I gave it a generous C rating 🤣 Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: Agreed Hopefully we can see a rabbit or two pulled out the magic hat this January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, jagfox said: Hopefully we can see a rabbit or two pulled out the magic hat this January. Let’s hope so ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted January 1 Author Report Share Posted January 1 33 minutes ago, javeajag said: There seems to be group think that we can’t win the league because .., - we lost four players - other teams have more money - we had financial problems - we couldn’t recruit on time which seem designed to ensure we all accept we can’t get promoted But I’ve not seen anyone say we can’t win the league, only that these factors make it more difficult to do so. I’ve also not seen anyone suggest that Doolan has been outstanding or is massively overachieving. The majority of opinions here are that Doolan is doing OK. Many of us have allowed some leeway due to the quality of the players lost and the fact he’s an absolute rookie learning on the job. Most of us are reasonably content with 3rd place and a good gap to 5th. You are clearly not content with Doolan’s performance and our league position. That of course is your prerogative. You do seem to be in the minority though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 What exactly is your agenda javeajag? Full disclosure please - to an objective (in my case) observer of Doolan's tenure, I have the impression that you are desperate for him to fail for some reason. Or have I read that wrong??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, javeajag said: There seems to be group think that we can’t win the league because .., - we lost four players - other teams have more money - we had financial problems - we couldn’t recruit on time which seem designed to ensure we all accept we can’t get promoted We could still get promoted via the play offs.....remember we very nearly pulled that off. Who knows , if we can somehow recruit well in January it's not beyond the bounds of possibility. Perhaps you have written us off for promotion, but I haven't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 11 hours ago, javeajag said: Nice pivot …..so you like many others have no idea whether have spent more on their squad than us but for some reason want to believe they have. I am making no pivot. It is logical to think that the Kelty owners took over RR and put some money in. Even if they were just maintaining their budget, what isn’t in doubt is that we were in financial turmoil and again logic dictates that that the playing budget was cut. It’s not what I believe- it’s what makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 9 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: What exactly is your agenda javeajag? Full disclosure please - to an objective (in my case) observer of Doolan's tenure, I have the impression that you are desperate for him to fail for some reason. Or have I read that wrong??? You may have read it wrong but I share your view and doubt we're not the only ones. But then again where's the proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 9 hours ago, Barney Rubble said: What exactly is your agenda javeajag? Full disclosure please - to an objective (in my case) observer of Doolan's tenure, I have the impression that you are desperate for him to fail for some reason. Or have I read that wrong??? Wrong….i don’t have an agenda just possibly not willing to give the club and the manager lots of excuses for not being in the title mix as others. I wasn’t in favour of sacking McCall last season and don’t think we should sack Doolan now either but he will soon be in the job for a year and needs to judged like every other manager.. We have not progressed from last season and performances have not been great either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 44 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I am making no pivot. It is logical to think that the Kelty owners took over RR and put some money in. Even if they were just maintaining their budget, what isn’t in doubt is that we were in financial turmoil and again logic dictates that that the playing budget was cut. It’s not what I believe- it’s what makes sense. Just as I could say the guys who bought Raith didn’t have a lot cash left over after buying the club so their budget isn’t much bigger than ours……but then again it’s just punting speculation to suit a point of view. In the absence of any actual data it’s just speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 2 Report Share Posted January 2 Some interesting comments in the Summer signings thread, particularly around the quality of the recruitment at Raith. I don’t think that there is much difference between ours and Raith performance outside the last 10-15 minutes of matches. There was a recent thread that showed how the table would look after 80 minutes of every game and and we were doing much better at that point. Clearly we need to close out games better and we already know that the defensive unit is an issue I think we will probably stay 3rd from here to the end of the season, which is better than I predicted in the summer, so verdict is decent but could have been better and clear areas for improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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