Finance Update

[Woodstock Jag]

3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Your correct - the absence of happiness isn't a reason for dismissal 

but putting forward a forecast that was “pie in the sky “ and “completely unachievable” at the AGM is grounds for replacing the Board

I've already explained the contrary rationale on this.

This was the first budget scrutiny exercise under the Club-Trust Agreement. The lion's share of the gap was down to one item (projected fan revenues). We judged that it was better to influence the budgeting assumptions through that process, rather than to become trigger-happy.

You can legitimately disagree with that judgment call, but it's the one we took.

3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

also the fact that TJF had to derisk this years budget because it was again not achievable is frankly beyond the pale

No it isn't. That's the purpose of having a budget scrutiny exercise!

3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

how can you admit all this and still argue we have the right people and the right strategy for the Club 

why are you defending them ? 

I'm not defending them. It's for the Club Board to defend the assumptions in their forecasts and budgets.

I'm explaining why the Trustees opted to use the budget scrutiny process to encourage that the assumptions be changed, rather than their legal powers to remove directors, at a time when, let's remember, there was already considerable Club Board churn and a period of stability was (in our judgment) essential.

What the Club Board was guilty of, principally, was over-optimistic projections. If they had said at the outset that the path to break-even would take longer, and would be more difficult, I suspect the average fan would have accepted that.

The scale of the task they had was not one that could credibly be turned-around inside barely two seasons. That is why I emphasise the structural position.

Clearly, they do not have the same explanations/excuses if they come back with a budget that shows no progress towards eliminating losses in 2025-26.

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I've already explained the contrary rationale on this.

This was the first budget scrutiny exercise under the Club-Trust Agreement. The lion's share of the gap was down to one item (projected fan revenues). We judged that it was better to influence the budgeting assumptions through that process, rather than to become trigger-happy.

You can legitimately disagree with that judgment call, but it's the one we took.

No it isn't. That's the purpose of having a budget scrutiny exercise!

I'm not defending them. It's for the Club Board to defend the assumptions in their forecasts and budgets.

I'm explaining why the Trustees opted to use the budget scrutiny process to encourage that the assumptions be changed, rather than their legal powers to remove directors, at a time when, let's remember, there was already considerable Club Board churn and a period of stability was (in our judgment) essential.

What the Club Board was guilty of, principally, was over-optimistic projections. If they had said at the outset that the path to break-even would take longer, and would be more difficult, I suspect the average fan would have accepted that.

The scale of the task they had was not one that could credibly be turned-around inside barely two seasons. That is why I emphasise the structural position.

Clearly, they do not have the same explanations/excuses if they come back with a budget that shows no progress towards eliminating losses in 2025-26.

“pie in the sky” 

“completely unachievable” 

thats by any standards a Vote of No Confidence in the board - you cannot seriously say that - then carry on as if its ok ? And note make changes? 

And as for TJF “ budget scrutiny “ 

£280k losses = you have no cash Reserves next Season as your burning cash to finance debt 

on what planet is that sustainable ? 

You cannot seriously continue supporting a strategy of running up debt and selling off Assets - you have to change tact and people - you eventually run out of Assets to sell   

 

[Barney Rubble]

Jim, there's a time and a place for these discussions.

Straight after a very good Jags victory is certainly neither the time or the place for them.

You constantly repeating/rehashing your theories ad nauseam across multiple threads doesn't help and is frankly irritating.

As is, I regret to say, your poor grammar, punctuation and inappropriate use of capital letters.

Please give us a rest.. At least for tonight so we can enjoy today's victory.

 

[Hopeless Unbeliever]

I see The Jags Foundation "parody" Twitter account has been very active recently with their poor grammar, punctuation and inappropriate use of capital letters.

[Jordanhill Jag]

45 minutes ago, Hopeless Unbeliever said:

I see The Jags Foundation "parody" Twitter account has been very active recently with their poor grammar, punctuation and inappropriate use of capital letters.

The Parody Account must have attended the same School as those proposing we run at a £280K Loss for Season 23/24 -  with only £75K of Cash in the bank in August 

[Jaggernaut]

14 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Parody Account must have attended the same School as those proposing we run at a £280K Loss for Season 23/24 -  with only £75K of Cash in the bank in August 

No need for capitals in school, loss, or cash. Oh, and some might suggest ending with a full stop.

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

No need for capitals in school, loss, or cash. Oh, and some might suggest ending with a full stop.

Thanks for that 

Now all you need to do is tell me how the proposed 23/24 losses vs Cash Reserves  numbers stack up ( using as many comas as you like ) 

Edited September 2 by Jordanhill Jag

[Woodstock Jag]

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Parody Account must have attended the same School as those proposing we run at a £280K Loss for Season 23/24 -  with only £75K of Cash in the bank in August 

It's posting your content, Jim. With approval!

Far be it for me to suggest that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" - but perhaps pause to reflect a moment there?

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

It's posting your content, Jim. With approval!

Far be it for me to suggest that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" - but perhaps pause to reflect a moment there?

as you well know the Parody Account has zero to do with me on any level - nor have I given “ approval” or been in Communications with whoever runs the Parody Account 

I will stand up for what I believe is in the best interests of PTFC 

If that's going against a Jlo Board decisions ref Running up Debts - if that's going against a "Fan Elected /Nominated Board for Running up Debts - or if that's going against a Fan Organisation for allowing them to do it - then that's just life.

Whilst my grammar may not be up to "Forum Standards"  - the simple fact is that the direction of travel in Club Finances has more holes than the Rangers Defence & the fact that in a near 2500 Word Financial Statement - the Board of PTFC just so happened to omit the fact that the target of Breakeven for this Season - was actually going to be a £280K loss ?  (why would you just so happen to omit that key bit of Financial information in the statement - why did TJF not demand it was included ? )   

Now by any measure - that's a very very important part of the Financial Update - yet it just so happened to be missed ? - any credibility on what we are being told simply disappeared by that omission- Trust is gone on anything we are being told ( because the question is therefore  - what else was omitted )  - Fan Ownership as its base - was supposed to be about being upfront and honest to the Fans ?  

So fair enough ref the Parody Account - but I think there is some serious Questions have to be asked by TJF regards exactly whats going on ? Fans are not stupid & its a Major Shareholders Job to Hold Boards to account - not be there apologists for poor performance

Is there another route - are there other options - are there people we can approach - of course 

So the Question is - what is it that the Club Needs most 

Fan Ownership - or Financial Stability & Success on the Park ? 

I honestly don't care who owns us - I supported TJF Guys because they were for Financial Stability & Success on the Park - they made public statements saying just that - my views have never wavered 

Without Financial Stability - we cannot achieve success on the Park 

We will not achieve Financial Stability if we continue with the current strategy & Board - its as simple as that 

“pie in the sky” 

“completely unachievable” 

Your Words not mines ref Budgets - that's a sacking offence- in any other walk of life - your gone ( the fact that no one has actually offered to resign based on being £280K out on the Forecast  is beyond me ) 

The Core issue is this & I speak from personal experience - there builds up a Myth that a Board have some sort of "inside knowledge" on how to run the Club - so there builds up a fear of making change -  multiple Boards have been replaced - and we are still here 

The Parody Account have there own Agenda ref TJF ( most of it personal towards a few individuals ) - my "Agenda" ref TJF is that they actually deliver what was promised & at its core was Financial Stability & you make the required changes to deliver that 

I will end with Quotations from Two People who helped drive TJF to the position it holds today ( and are as relevant now as they were a couple of Years Ago )  

"First & Foremost the Club needs to balance its books - or it dies" 

"Remember - we Support Partick Thistle Football Club ( founded 1876) not particular people or agendas "  

Every aspect on our future - Finances - Direction - Football Success-  lies with TJF - they have the Power to change -  in whatever manner they wish ( lets not pretend the other Trusts will go against them )   - we are at a CrossRoads - stay as we are - with the Current People Running the Club & Support there High Risk Financial Strategy - or change direction - its up to TJF 

  

  

Edited September 2 by Jordanhill Jag

[BowenBoys]

Well, that's the income from two football competitions now set at minimum. Let's hope the customers keep stumping up for match tickets, Lotto, TJF membership, Jagzone, PTFCTV, 50/50 Draw and hospitality despite the product being so poor.

[Garscube Road End 2]

Just now, BowenBoys said:

Well, that's the income from two football competitions now set at minimum. Let's hope the customers keep stumping up for match tickets, Lotto, TJF membership, Jagzone, PTFCTV, 50/50 Draw and hospitality despite the product being so poor.

If we keep serving up this rubbish, our financial worries will only increase.

[BowenBoys]

4 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

If we keep serving up this rubbish, our financial worries will only increase.

But look at the extensive list of ways you can offset that, GRE. Ask not what your club can do for you... 😊

[Garscube Road End 2]

2 minutes ago, BowenBoys said:

But look at the extensive list of ways you can offset that, GRE. Ask not what your club can do for you... 😊

Been there, wore the shirt. No longer.

[BowenBoys]

3 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Been there, wore the shirt. No longer.

Do they not do irony in Aberdeen?

[Garscube Road End 2]

7 minutes ago, BowenBoys said:

Do they not do irony in Aberdeen?

Why mention Aberdeen?

[BowenBoys]

10 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Why mention Aberdeen?

😳 I'm out.

 

[eljaggo]

Colin Weir must be turning in his grave.  Where has all that money gone?

[Yellow & Redneck]

13 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

Colin Weir must be turning in his grave.  Where has all that money gone?

I honestly believe his money has been a curse, as well intentioned as it was. 

[dl1971]

19 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

I honestly believe his money has been a curse, as well intentioned as it was. 

I somehow think we would have been far worse off without it....difficult as that is to believe after last few results. Nb thistle has been cursed from way before then! 

[Whitelees jag]

Imagine under Low we had a squad of 25 1st team players and were still trying to add. Certain fans would be going mental. Who is signing this off. What happened to living within our means.

[scotty]

1 hour ago, eljaggo said:

Colin Weir must be turning in his grave.  Where has all that money gone?

The money went to buy shares in order to facilitate fan ownership and if I remember correctly some of it bought out propco to return the stadium to PTFC. While he was still with us Colin Weir didn't fund the first team but rather wanted to put money into community teams and the academy. There never was a bottomless pot of cash. His legacy was to leave the club to the fans it's up to us what we do with it.

[eljaggo]

 

39 minutes ago, scotty said:

His legacy was to leave the club to the fans it's up to us what we do with it.

Aye, and there's the rub.

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 hours ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

If we keep serving up this rubbish, our financial worries will only increase.

Here is my rather simple view 

poor standards off the park are normally matched by poor standards on it - a Complacency & Culture of “ it doesn't really matter “ creeps in - lack of financial Controls at Board level - is in essence the same as lack of fitness on the park - there the Core - without them your going no where as a Club 

Club leadership - direction - future strategy -discipline is key - thats the job of the Chairman - the Team Manager should replicate that with the Squad

- currently we are a myriad of multiple Committees - agendas -egos - politics and demands on finances - all vying to have there influence and egos 

none of them focused on the simple task of winning games for PTFC founded 1876 getting promoted getting into Europe - thats it - nothing else matters to the vast majority of Fans 

As for Dools - I genuinely like him - but we have Players that are not fit - thats basics - so he either addresses it -or we have to make change - if this was Caldwell or even McCall - we would not be tolerant 

however and this is important / our finances limit our options 

Brian Graham has zero Coaching Experience in Professional Football - being a “ Club Legend” has to stop being the reason for getting the Managers job - so its time we changed direction / fresh faces - new ideas 

Im honestly tired of the sound of my own voice saying this / we don't change direction at Board level - we are in trouble off the park and on it 

How many Football Clubs have No Chairman 

 

 

[BowenBoys]

27 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Here is my rather simple view 

poor standards off the park are normally matched by poor standards on it - a Complacency & Culture of “ it doesn't really matter “ creeps in - lack of financial Controls at Board level - is in essence the same as lack of fitness on the park - there the Core - without them your going no where as a Club 

Club leadership - direction - future strategy -discipline is key - thats the job of the Chairman - the Team Manager should replicate that with the Squad

- currently we are a myriad of multiple Committees - agendas -egos - politics and demands on finances - all vying to have there influence and egos 

none of them focused on the simple task of winning games for PTFC founded 1876 getting promoted getting into Europe - thats it - nothing else matters to the vast majority of Fans 

As for Dools - I genuinely like him - but we have Players that are not fit - thats basics - so he either addresses it -or we have to make change - if this was Caldwell or even McCall - we would not be tolerant 

however and this is important / our finances limit our options 

Brian Graham has zero Coaching Experience in Professional Football - being a “ Club Legend” has to stop being the reason for getting the Managers job - so its time we changed direction / fresh faces - new ideas 

Im honestly tired of the sound of my own voice saying this / we don't change direction at Board level - we are in trouble off the park and on it 

How many Football Clubs have No Chairman 

 

 

Poor standards personified.

[JAG1970]

25 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

 

As for Dools - I genuinely like him - but we have Players that are not fit - thats basics - so he either addresses it -or we have to make change - if this was Caldwell or even McCall - we would not be tolerant 

I think the tolerance is evaporating across the support. Doolan probably has a max of 5 games (first quarter) to start turning in much better performances and results. We genuinely look clueless so far this season.