Jordanhill Jag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: Anybody know of an effective treatment for crimson simianitis? Well even Mr Quinn is starting to Question our Current Set up on Twitter 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Because we are running at a Forecasted £260K loss ( assumes finishing 4th) the £500K includes £200K to fix the JHS Roof - leaves £300K in Reserves TJF have stipulated we require £300K cash reserves at all times So in order to maintain the Cash Reserve Levels -we need to start reducing the £260K losses The money for the additional squad costs came from an additional £300K contribution from Donald McClymont and another Fan - not the Club Budget - the £300K has been spent Its highly unlikely we will win the league - and are going to have to fight to finish 4th Therefore - we need to cut squad costs ( and will do so ) None of this is complicated ? And Ive now been saying the same thing since the Budget Presentations at the last AGM - the numbers simply didn't stack up As it turned out a Forecasted Breakeven fot this Season - turned into a Forecasted loss of £260K - 6 Months after the AGM Our Strategy is not sustainable ( even TJF despite there on line Bravado have come to that conclusion ) there isn't a Tranche 3 So we will be cutting costs I struggle to find accounts but do we have any figures that show playing budget costs for this and last 2 seasons versus non-playing costs? In the JLow era I was always unclear why the number of non-playing staff was so large compared to previous stints in the championship/old division 1 If playing budget has increased we must be spending a fair bit on players as we have a reduced number of coaches from McCalls time in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, laukat said: I struggle to find accounts but do we have any figures that show playing budget costs for this and last 2 seasons versus non-playing costs? In the JLow era I was always unclear why the number of non-playing staff was so large compared to previous stints in the championship/old division 1 If playing budget has increased we must be spending a fair bit on players as we have a reduced number of coaches from McCalls time in charge The playing Budget from the Club largely remained unchanged in Doolans first full Season and for this Season - this was stated at the AGM In addition to the Club Budget Cash there was another £300K from Contributions to the Players Fund So our Budget this Year would be one of the Highest in the League Rather strangely - it was stated that last Years Budget ( which was the same as McCalls the previous Year ) was the 5th Highest in the League However McCall was sacked ( with the same Budget ) as it was deemed adequate to win the League But this Year with the additional £300K and against Falkirk & Livvy its defo one of the Highest Budget Ref Coaches - McCall had 2 Assistants We now have one Assistant and a FT Stars Analysis - Football Liason - Recruitment person so “ Coaching Staff” Costs will be similar Pre Jlo Era and last time we were promoted -the Non Football Resource ie Office / Stadium Staff consisted of Maxie - Accounts Person - Amie Small & a YTS person Maxie also looked after Recruitment & Football Liaison as well as being Club GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Because we are running at a Forecasted £260K loss ( assumes finishing 4th) the £500K includes £200K to fix the JHS Roof - leaves £300K in Reserves TJF have stipulated we require £300K cash reserves at all times So in order to maintain the Cash Reserve Levels -we need to start reducing the £260K losses The money for the additional squad costs came from an additional £300K contribution from Donald McClymont and another Fan - not the Club Budget - the £300K has been spent Its highly unlikely we will win the league - and are going to have to fight to finish 4th Therefore - we need to cut squad costs ( and will do so ) None of this is complicated ? And Ive now been saying the same thing since the Budget Presentations at the last AGM - the numbers simply didn't stack up As it turned out a Forecasted Breakeven fot this Season - turned into a Forecasted loss of £260K - 6 Months after the AGM Our Strategy is not sustainable ( even TJF despite there on line Bravado have come to that conclusion ) there isn't a Tranche 3 So we will be cutting costs I understand all of this. All of it was known at the start of the season when the club were happy to run with a budgeted loss for this season. At the meeting to approve the 2nd £500K investment, the roof repairs were also known about and were hopefully going to be spread over a few seasons. So, my question remains - why now on the back of an exceptional quarter when we picked up 22 points. What changed ? I don’t really expect you to be able to answer this question unless you have contacts at the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 37 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: The playing Budget from the Club largely remained unchanged in Doolans first full Season and for this Season - this was stated at the AGM In addition to the Club Budget Cash there was another £300K from Contributions to the Players Fund So our Budget this Year would be one of the Highest in the League Rather strangely - it was stated that last Years Budget ( which was the same as McCalls the previous Year ) was the 5th Highest in the League However McCall was sacked ( with the same Budget ) as it was deemed adequate to win the League But this Year with the additional £300K and against Falkirk & Livvy its defo one of the Highest Budget Ref Coaches - McCall had 2 Assistants We now have one Assistant and a FT Stars Analysis - Football Liason - Recruitment person so “ Coaching Staff” Costs will be similar Pre Jlo Era and last time we were promoted -the Non Football Resource ie Office / Stadium Staff consisted of Maxie - Accounts Person - Amie Small & a YTS person Maxie also looked after Recruitment & Football Liaison as well as being Club GM Thanks. Its hard to see where the extra £300k has been spent. Whilst the size of the squad has increase by about 3 that in itself wouldn't eat up £300k. 4 wingers that are all first team starters for anyone in this division looks excessive no matter their injury status. However beyond that to have run through an extra £300k presumable means we must be paying some of the squad a decent wedge and equally it probably has to be those we just recruited and who have deals into next season. If so then we aren't massively reducing ongoing costs by getting rid of younger players or terminating loans to us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 5 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I understand all of this. All of it was known at the start of the season when the club were happy to run with a budgeted loss for this season. At the meeting to approve the 2nd £500K investment, the roof repairs were also known about and were hopefully going to be spread over a few seasons. So, my question remains - why now on the back of an exceptional quarter when we picked up 22 points. What changed ? I don’t really expect you to be able to answer this question unless you have contacts at the club. Appreciate this is a question for @Jordanhill Jag and one that you are looking for an answer from someone with inside knowledge. However is it not reasonable to think that the club don't have any faith that Doolan will get us promoted because of the last 15 points he's only picked up 6 and the team performances are going downhill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 15 minutes ago, laukat said: Thanks. Its hard to see where the extra £300k has been spent. Whilst the size of the squad has increase by about 3 that in itself wouldn't eat up £300k. 4 wingers that are all first team starters for anyone in this division looks excessive no matter their injury status. However beyond that to have run through an extra £300k presumable means we must be paying some of the squad a decent wedge and equally it probably has to be those we just recruited and who have deals into next season. If so then we aren't massively reducing ongoing costs by getting rid of younger players or terminating loans to us? Complete guess but did we not even have to spend more on loans. After his success at Airdrie last year Megwa understandably would have been in demand and linked with other clubs. Might we have had to say to Hibs to get him to pay three quarters of his wage for talking sake. Also Chalmers was linked with other clubs such as Ayr, Raith etc. might we have had to offer far higher wages to tempt him etc etc A few saying Sayers on a very high wage to get him to relocate from London to Glasgow Could be the same with other players we have recruited this season. But ultimately I’m just speculating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 The situation seems pretty simple ……we extended ourselves by £300k which we didn’t really have as this was a season when we could win the league. The ‘taking a punt ‘ strategy. It’s pretty clear that’s not going to happen and we are hoping to make the playoffs. Which I suspect most of us don’t think will lead us to promotion. the quality of football has generally been poor and has regressed from last season. Being the manager is not a work training scheme, ultimately it’s all about results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Third Lanark said: Complete guess but did we not even have to spend more on loans. After his success at Airdrie last year Megwa understandably would have been in demand and linked with other clubs. Might we have had to say to Hibs to get him to pay three quarters of his wage for talking sake. Also Chalmers was linked with other clubs such as Ayr, Raith etc. might we have had to offer far higher wages to tempt him etc etc A few saying Sayers on a very high wage to get him to relocate from London to Glasgow Could be the same with other players we have recruited this season. But ultimately I’m just speculating That would be my guess as well. I don't think Ashcroft, MacKay, Chalmers, Turner, Crawford and Sayers will be cheap nor will the extensions for Graham, McBeth, Fitzpatrick, O'Reilly, Stanway or Diack but they now all have contracts that mean they will be on our books next season. So does that not make it pretty difficult to reduce playing costs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 32 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I understand all of this. All of it was known at the start of the season when the club were happy to run with a budgeted loss for this season. At the meeting to approve the 2nd £500K investment, the roof repairs were also known about and were hopefully going to be spread over a few seasons. So, my question remains - why now on the back of an exceptional quarter when we picked up 22 points. What changed ? I don’t really expect you to be able to answer this question unless you have contacts at the club. Because TJF changed the rules The Club has to have £300K of Cash Reserves at all times Without Tranche 2 our Cash reserves were depleted to near zero So as Tranche 2 cant be used to offset Trading losses - therefore we are having to cut costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 Just now, laukat said: That would be my guess as well. I don't think Ashcroft, MacKay, Chalmers, Turner, Crawford and Sayers will be cheap nor will the extensions for Graham, McBeth, Fitzpatrick, O'Reilly, Stanway or Diack but they now all have contracts that mean they will be on our books next season. So does that not make it pretty difficult to reduce playing costs? Yes - and the most obvious reduction is loan players who are not contracted long term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 39 minutes ago, laukat said: Appreciate this is a question for @Jordanhill Jag and one that you are looking for an answer from someone with inside knowledge. However is it not reasonable to think that the club don't have any faith that Doolan will get us promoted because of the last 15 points he's only picked up 6 and the team performances are going downhill? This is why it is important to know when the decision was taken to start cutting costs. Before the Morton game seems inexplicable to me given the run of results we had been on. For me, this talk of cutting costs has come from nowhere! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 29 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Yes - and the most obvious reduction is loan players who are not contracted long term Unless you think those players are critical to us achieving a certain place. If you believe Roberts in goals is the difference between 4th and 5th place (which I don’t think is far-fetched), then you’d have to consider the prize money difference in comparison to what we’re paying for the loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 52 minutes ago, Third Lanark said: Complete guess but did we not even have to spend more on loans. After his success at Airdrie last year Megwa understandably would have been in demand and linked with other clubs. Might we have had to say to Hibs to get him to pay three quarters of his wage for talking sake. Donald McLymont paid for Megwa's temporary transfer deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 16 minutes ago, jagfox said: Donald McLymont paid for Megwa's temporary transfer deal. Thanks Jagfox I hadn’t realised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 8 Author Report Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Third Lanark said: Thanks Jagfox I hadn’t realised I think this was in addition to the £250,000 he added to the summer transfer budget. I think @Norgethistle could have worded his response a bit better. All clubs take stock of their playing squad at this stage of the season. Moving on the likes of McKenzie, Smith Lyon, Diack and Nilsson makes sense as it might allow us to get a body or two in. I'd only be concerned if we start releasing a swathe of experienced first teamers. Roberts moving on is a blow but it was all done from the Watford side. I don't know if we were even paying Watford anything for the loan apart from perhaps expenses for Myles' accommodation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: This is why it is important to know when the decision was taken to start cutting costs. Before the Morton game seems inexplicable to me given the run of results we had been on. For me, this talk of cutting costs has come from nowhere! We were still 10 points adrift of Falkirk beforr the Morton Game - we were never catching them - McCall was sacked for being 12 points adrift We have at no point looked like promotion contenders this Season well lets see who is in and who is out over the next few weeks if your saying that we are not cutting costs When TJF imposed the £300K Cash Reserve requirement the only way to achieve it was to cut costs and I would guess the realisation that there is No Tranche 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted January 8 Report Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Lenziejag said: This is why it is important to know when the decision was taken to start cutting costs. Before the Morton game seems inexplicable to me given the run of results we had been on. For me, this talk of cutting costs has come from nowhere! Like a lot of things on the internet... It's basically a form of hallucination driven by chinese whispers. This particular example is pretty trivial in comparison to the nonsense playing out elsewhere. And you don't have to look too far for the source. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 7 hours ago, laukat said: In the JLow era I was always unclear why the number of non-playing staff was so large compared to previous stints in the championship/old division 1 JLow's time at Firhill always reminded me of wannabe tories: all about appearances, spin, and spending money, but in reality ending up in fur coat and nae knickers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 12 hours ago, javeajag said: The situation seems pretty simple ……we extended ourselves by £300k which we didn’t really have as this was a season when we could win the league. The ‘taking a punt ‘ strategy. It’s pretty clear that’s not going to happen and we are hoping to make the playoffs. Which I suspect most of us don’t think will lead us to promotion. the quality of football has generally been poor and has regressed from last season. Being the manager is not a work training scheme, ultimately it’s all about results. Your last sentence is the whole point about this, though. When was the decision taken ? Before the Morton game - makes no sense. After Morton - a bit knee jerk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 12 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Because TJF changed the rules The Club has to have £300K of Cash Reserves at all times Without Tranche 2 our Cash reserves were depleted to near zero So as Tranche 2 cant be used to offset Trading losses - therefore we are having to cut costs I don’t think that is right. A couple of the charts presented in November showed the cash flow trend through this season with the investment and a typical breakeven year. There is no cash flow need to cut costs this season based on those charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted January 9 Report Share Posted January 9 We're not seriously challenging for the title, so it might be considered wise to reduce costs now with an eye to next season. But who knows. I certainly don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 8 hours ago, fenski said: We're not seriously challenging for the title, so it might be considered wise to reduce costs now with an eye to next season. But who knows. I certainly don't. No - but even after two defeats we are only 6 points off 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: No - but even after two defeats we are only 6 points off 2nd. And we have the players who could win the playoffs if they were to play to their potential Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 On 1/8/2025 at 3:54 PM, Jordanhill Jag said: Well even Mr Quinn is starting to Question our Current Set up on Twitter 😊 Who is Mr Quinn? He's not on the club or any other board when I had a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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