Partick Thistle V Dumfermline Athletic, Saturday 1 December

[Chicofan]

Just watched the highlights there..never a sending off....good penalty kick..desperately unlucky.

 

Jim Jeffries trust that sour faced old roaster to be on....talking pish.

 

Right jags lets get the heid doon and romp this league...Dungfy are nowt

[Duck snort]

How Jefferies thought they controlled the early stages I've no idea. Yes, they forced Smith into 2 straightforward saves, one of which was going wide anyway, but other than that we were the team controlling the ball, albeit without testing Gallacher.

 

I think the sending off decision was correct, although I will say Dargo was looking to be fouled rather than trying to get an attempt on goal.

 

I hadn't realised it was Geggan that fouled Erskine at the penalty. Given that he was booked very early on for trying to crock Forbes surely he should have been off for a 2nd yellow.

[lewcal]

Watching the sending off incident as it happened,I thought it was a red card(all be it soft) but having just watched highlights it's an absolute disgrace the referees fell for dargo's "cleverness".there's no denying at 11v11 the jags are a far superior team.even a man down we should have got a replay at worst.jeffries has always bugged me and to hear him say they were the better team makes my blood boil.jeffries must know he dodged a bullet today.the one consolation is now we can concentrate fully on league duties and I fully expect us to kick on from this.

[Lin1876]

Just watched the highlights there..never a sending off....

 

Maybe, but we would be screaming for it had it been the other way. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

[Woodstock Jag]

On second look, it's a clear red. Very soft, but a clear red.

[Chicofan]

Maybe, but we would be screaming for it had it been the other way. Swings and roundabouts and all that.

Your probably right but it really looked soft!

[chunky jag]

I have no complaints, muirhead raised his arms and dargo had every right to go down, cringeworthy defensive line between balatoni and muirhed. iif it was other way round i'd have been screaming for it.

[Chicofan]

oh aye and the barrowman challenge at the end..that was a shocker..they were saying after it he went for the ball...did he fvckerslike!!!

[Davie Thistle]

Mince. Never touch him he fell like a ton a bricks

When he felt A/Ms arm on his back.

Bludy joke how that tosser of a ref was so easily conned

Edited December 2, 2012 by Davie Thistle

[Fearchar]

On watching it again (a few times), I'm amazed that Barrowman didn't get a straight red for the first foul he was carded for, while the second could arguably have been a straight red too: he went straight for the ankles both times. (In some other countries, with notably more success in football, there would have been no question about it.) Interesting to see the TV highlights including these fouls: I think someone doing the editing decided to showcase a few fouls, which is rarely the case. Perhaps it was an attempt to embarrass Jefferies in the studio. Dargo, of course, was looking for a penalty by going down as soon as there was physical contact; to Jefferies, that was a "pull". Wrong direction, Jim!

 

It's embarrassing to watch matches in which players foul time and again, and see that managers are encouraging their players to do these things (albeit without much sign of any finesse about it). Will someone in Scottish football please waken up and get officials to train in Germany or the Netherlands? The day of blood-and-snotters football is long gone everywhere else: why should we have to watch the dinosaurs walking out of the museum on to our pitches?

[Winter of '63]

A very frustrating day...although I quite enjoyed getting angrier with the endless time Dunfermline took for throw-ins and substitutions and their serial fouling.

 

I thought we got bullied in the first half but deserved a draw with a spirited second half although it was more determination than good football and Dunfermline were particularly inept on the break.

 

Dopey defending to allow Dargo a clear run through and a definite red card. Sometimes you don't really notice that a team is one man down...but not when one of the 10 is Hugh Murray. How often is he caught in possession?

 

Not convinced about Balatoni, O'Donnell looked a bit edgy but was due a quiet game, Forbes use of the ball was excellent(apart from the penalty though that was a good save) and Bannigan did well. We missed Lawless...and Paton & Welsh.

 

That was 50 years to the day since my first game at Firhill...during that time, I would struggle to recall more than 5 occasions that we have got the better of teams of equal status in the Scottish Cup ...we really have an awful Cup record.

[Chicofan]

A very frustrating day...although I quite enjoyed getting angrier with the endless time Dunfermline took for throw-ins and substitutions and their serial fouling.

 

I thought we got bullied in the first half but deserved a draw with a spirited second half although it was more determination than good football and Dunfermline were particularly inept on the break.

 

Dopey defending to allow Dargo a clear run through and a definite red card. Sometimes you don't really notice that a team is one man down...but not when one of the 10 is Hugh Murray. How often is he caught in possession?

 

Not convinced about Balatoni, O'Donnell looked a bit edgy but was due a quiet game, Forbes use of the ball was excellent(apart from the penalty though that was a good save) and Bannigan did well. We missed Lawless...and Paton & Welsh.

 

That was 50 years to the day since my first game at Firhill...during that time, I would struggle to recall more than 5 occasions that we have got the better of teams of equal status in the Scottish Cup ...we really have an awful Cup record.

 

Hats off to you sir!! Do you have any hair left??

Edited December 2, 2012 by Chicofan

[Charlie Endell]

 

Special mention to Hugh Murray, who was an absolute liability until he was taken off. I counted at least five times he gave the ball away in a dangerous area, which simply isn't good enough.

Murray is one of Jackie's few wrong moves. As soon as I see his name on a team-sheet my heart sinks.

[The Earl of Hathaway]

Has anyone got a link to the Sportscene highlights? Can't find them on the iplayer...

[Firhillista]

I thought we were far better than Dunfermline yesterday. If the game had finished 11 v. 11, we'd have won, no question. Thought the team were magnificent the way they played in the second half - we may have lost the match, but we won the moral victory! The players must realise now that winning the league is there for them: Dunfermline will beat most teams in the First, but so will we and we'll beat then too, every time we play them!

 

The original framers of the the rules of football built in a rule to cover 'denying a clear goalscoring opportunity' - it's called the penalty box. There was never any need to change the rules in this respect. Even when it's called correctly (and it's almost impossible usually to define what 'a clear goalscoring opportunity' is), it leads to disproportionate punishment - you have a man sent off and have to play with 10 men for the rest of the game, you (usually) lose a goal from a penalty and your man is suspended from some future games. It's ridiculous! Muirhead fouled Dargo yesterday, but it was never sufficient to make the guy fall over - he CHOSE to fall down. What does the ref do then? A foul's occurred, the guy's through with the keeper to beat, has to be a sending off under current rules. As I said, ridiculous! Time this rule was scrapped.

 

(Mind you, a brave ref might book a player for unsporting behaviour if they thought that the player was overreacting to a foul, but what are the chances of that?)

[read'n'yell]

Even just from watching the highlights it is unreal how often Murray loses possession. Almost every Dunfermline attack resulted from him either bring tackled or missing a pass. Also he is always running from behind an opponent and when you have his pace it's not wonder he gets red/yellow cards a lot. Really do think his time has passed. Definitely missed Paton yesterday.

[Garscube Road End]

Am I right in saying Muirhead's suspension only relates to cup games? If so will he miss cup final in April?

 

Glad to see Paton back next week!!

 

Looking at the highlights I thought Sinclair was at fault for letting, what looked like his ball, run across him for their winger to get to it and ultimately leading to the goal!!

 

Both red cards were correct IMO, by the letter of the law. For Jefferies to say on TV last night that the way Thistle players re-acted led the referee to have no choice but to isssue a second yellow was disingenious to say the least .Muirheads was silly. Dargo is an old pro and knew what he was doing.

 

Smith looked to have had a great game.

 

Forbes penalty - It looked at a nice height for the keeper and not far enough towards the post.

 

Anyway, upwards and onwards!! Tough test at Cowdenbeath. I think its time Jackie kept Murray as back up and NOT a regular.

[Winter of '63]

Hats off to you sir!! Do you have any hair left??

After half a century of watching Thistle, I still have most of my own hair and teeth - it must be what keeps me looking forever youthful

[jaggy]

Am I right in saying Muirhead's suspension only relates to cup games? If so will he miss cup final in April

It will be Scottish Cup only, so 1st game next season

[Jaggernaut]

As soon as Muirhead got sent off I felt that it wasn't going to be our day. Even if Dargo went down easily, a defender should be aware enough to know about the likely consequences. Smith was playing so well yesterday that he might well have saved the shot, and we could have gone on to win.

 

Very disappointing to get yet another red card.

 

Very disappointing too to see how slow Murray was. A straightforward swap next week, please. Paton in, Murray out. I wouldn't even have him on the bench if Rowser is fully fit.

 

No lack of effort yesterday, but too many players just off the boil; O'Donnell had a bit of a night mare second half (good 1st half), and Erskine too many times tried to cut inside in the wrong direction. A shame that Balatoni got outjumped for the goal, but it sometimes happens. I wasn't even confident that we would score from the penalty when I saw Forbes step up.

 

So, our pretty abysmal Scottish Cup record continues (especially against Dunfermline).

 

Negatives: regardless of how they did it, they now have the psychological advantage of having beaten us in our most recent meeting, and at Firhill. Also, they (and probably Morton) might well get a big financial boost if they get drawn to one of the ugly sisters, allowing them to strengthen in January, whereas we'll have to continue on our shoe-string budget.

 

Positives: out of a diddy cup, we can now go all out for the league! Smith was excellent yesterday, and very assured last week.

 

Need to get right back on track next week at Cowdungbeath.

[little_miss_jag]

 

Negatives: regardless of how they did it, they now have the psycological advantage of having beaten us in our most recent meeting, and at Firhill. Also, they (and probably Morton) might well get a big financial boost if they get drawn to one of the ugly sisters, allowing them to strengthen in January, whereas we'll have to continue on our shoe-string budget.

 

 

Any money Dunfermline make in the next round will be about survival for them. They can barely afford to pay their players wages never mind sign new players in January.

 

Any other year we would be thinking season over as we are out the cup. This year though we have our final and the league to concentrate on and in a way a defeat isn't that bad a result.

 

For me the only thing learnt yesterday is the only way Dunfermline will beat us this season is if we have 10 men.

[scotty]

 

Both red cards were correct IMO, by the letter of the law. For Jefferies to say on TV last night that the way Thistle players re-acted led the referee to have no choice but to isssue a second yellow was disingenious to say the least .Muirheads was silly. Dargo is an old pro and knew what he was doing.

 

 

To be fair, I'm sure he was talking about one of his own players running over to get involved.

[Jaggernaut]

Any money Dunfermline make in the next round will be about survival for them. They can barely afford to pay their players wages never mind sign new players in January.

 

Any other year we would be thinking season over as we are out the cup. This year though we have our final and the league to concentrate on and in a way a defeat isn't that bad a result.

 

For me the only thing learnt yesterday is the only way Dunfermline will beat us this season is if we have 10 men.

 

Surely Livi should be able to beat that lot??

[scotty]

Aye, Livi looked a much better team.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Any money Dunfermline make in the next round will be about survival for them. They can barely afford to pay their players wages never mind sign new players in January.

Hoping you're right. It certainly looks that way.

Clutching at straws to find anything positive about going out the Cup, but here goes. I don't particularly want us winning the league on a technicality say by 14pts if Pars were docked 15pts for going into administration or non payment of wages etc. On the other hand I don't want to see them buying the league by adding to their squad. So if the Cup keeps Pars afloat, but no more, then yesterday isn't necessarily that bad. In any other year yesterday's result would've been a lot worse. And at least this season the old line about being able to concentrate 100% on the league at least has some validity.

As to the game someone mentioned earlier in the thread that having both Forbes and Murray in midfield is far from ideal. Tho' Murray did get caught out far too often the lack of pace in midfield may well have been more telling. Tho' Paton isn't by any means lightening he's got excellent stamina to compensate.

The Muirhead sending off was just one of those things. I've seen far more experienced centrebacks caught out similarly and at higher level. I thought it was Geggan that brought down Erskine and was screaming for a second yellow but according to reports it was Dowie. Looked to me as if the Barrowman challenge on Sinclair should've been a straight red. Maybe just as well it wasn't as I've a feeling yon ref would've then have sent off Sinclair.

Back to the league and even on yesterday's display I feel we're a class ahead of Dunfermline. What I do find slightly alarming is that they rarely drop points against anybody bar ourselves but apart from that we should be very optimistic about coming out on top.