Third Lanark Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) You're confusing me here. What's it to be? Out the door or rehabilitation? Archie skirted around the issue on Sportsound the other night and could do so as he wasn't there. John Potter has also put things into context. He will get a significant ban. It will be up to Archie to manage the situation to the least detriment of the Club. I'm sure he will do that, but ultimately it will be up to Gary Fraser to sort himself out and ensure there is never a repeat. I thought when I first read the thread that Gary Fraser had been thrown outof Firhill and Bolton.From what I recall Archie said on the radio that he Fraser had apologised to the ref immediately after the game and team mates and club for elttign them down. Though clearly that is the very least he should do. I still did not read it as been clear that he has left Partick Thistle or Bolton though if he is to stay he is a lucky lad and must never repeat that incident ever again. Hopefully he will learn this lesson, he is clearly a very talented footballer and if he stays with Partick Thistle which I am still hopefull he will, then I hope he realises he owes a debt to the club, the team and the Management Edited October 25, 2013 by Third Lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 I still did not read it as been clear that he has left Partick Thistle or Bolton though if he is to stay he is a lucky lad and must never repeat that incident ever again He's not the messiah,...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Shame about the automatic two game decision, we could have got him to sort out Scott "Coco Pops" Brown...only kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 You're confusing me here. What's it to be? Out the door or rehabilitation? Archie skirted around the issue on Sportsound the other night and could do so as he wasn't there. John Potter has also put things into context. He will get a significant ban. It will be up to Archie to manage the situation to the least detriment of the Club. I'm sure he will do that, but ultimately it will be up to Gary Fraser to sort himself out and ensure there is never a repeat. That is up to Archie and Shaggy...Do they choose to stick to their words about attitude and work ethics? Or do they give him a second chance? I said what my opinion/hopes are at the end of my post - I hope he continues to play with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhs Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 I thought when I first read the thread that Gary Fraser had been thrown outof Firhill and Bolton. From what I recall Archie said on the radio that he Fraser had apologised to the ref immediately after the game and team mates and club for elttign them down. Though clearly that is the very least he should do. I still did not read it as been clear that he has left Partick Thistle or Bolton though if he is to stay he is a lucky lad and must never repeat that incident ever again Topic title is misleading, there are no reports that he has left or will be leaving, so far. Only that a hearing has been set for a few weeks time at Hampden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Fraser got angry at a bad tackle and reacted in a way that was over the top. He has since apologised for it and it was accepted by the opposing player. He should be banned but hopefully it won't be for too long. The club should stand by him even though he's not our player. People on here are always looking to take some moral high ground. Calling the guy a ned and a roaster is out of order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudjag Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Well said the cup. Sick and tired of the self righteous idiots on this forum taking the moral high ground. You've summed it up perfectly, he behaved like an idiot n has apologised to all parties and knowing the boy personally I know it's cliche but he's not that kind of lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Seeing as I didn't witness this incident, I can't be certain but it seems the whole episode has perhaps been blown out of proportion by some folk. The way some have described it doesn't really tie in with the accounts of those involved and their respective coaches. I'm sure Fraser will be dealt with internally in addition to any disciplinary sanctions from the SFA so I don't see any reason to take such severe action as terminate his deal on the basis of his actions. However, from a fiscal point of view, if his ban turns out to be lengthy and we have already decided not to extend his loan then sending him back to Bolton would be a logical thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Does a ban cover only U20 games, senior games or All games, what I am meaning is if he were to get say a 8 game ban, would he need to wait 8 SPFL games before he could play or 8 SPFL or U20 games before he could play. If it SPFL games then with his loan ending in January if the ban is of any length at all then it doesn't make sense for him to sit banned at Firhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulguy jag Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Well said the cup. Sick and tired of the self righteous idiots on this forum taking the moral high ground. You've summed it up perfectly, he behaved like an idiot n has apologised to all parties and knowing the boy personally I know it's cliche but he's not that kind of lad. The boy deserves a chance at thistle to try and further his career and not be subjected to some sort of witch hunt . Lets hope he has learned from his stupidity and redeems himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Seeing as I didn't witness this incident, I can't be certain but it seems the whole episode has perhaps been blown out of proportion by some folk. The way some have described it doesn't really tie in with the accounts of those involved and their respective coaches. I'm sure Fraser will be dealt with internally in addition to any disciplinary sanctions from the SFA so I don't see any reason to take such severe action as terminate his deal on the basis of his actions. However, from a fiscal point of view, if his ban turns out to be lengthy and we have already decided not to extend his loan then sending him back to Bolton would be a logical thing to do. Sorry but I'm not taking any moral high ground. The fact that Potter's account plays down what actually happened and Fraser immediately appologised.(both commendable) doesn't alter the facts. If this had happened in the first team and thus subjected to independent video scrutiny there'd be very little to add in mitigation to assist Fraser. If there's anyone to feel sorry for feel sorry for Dale Keenan. As for Fraser anyone defending the indefensible would imo be the one taking some sort of moral high ground. Further if we were talking about some trialist or young journeyman here he'd have been hung out to dry. Because the lad is of value and turned in good displays for the first team others are jumping to his defence. I hope Gary Fraser does get off lightly with a minimal ban as this will be some shock to his system and could be the wake up call he requires. I do tho' think he'll get a fairly lengthy suspension. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) The Bolton fans' reaction on Fraser's sending off is here. "I remember Chic Charnley chinning Ju Darby away at Preston once." Edited October 25, 2013 by kni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Sorry but I'm not taking any moral high ground. The fact that Potter's account plays down what actually happened and Fraser immediately appologised.(both commendable) doesn't alter the facts. If this had happened in the first team and thus subjected to independent video scrutiny there'd be very little to add in mitigation to assist Fraser. If there's anyone to feel sorry for feel sorry for Dale Keenan. As for Fraser anyone defending the indefensible would imo be the one taking some sort of moral high ground. Further if we were talking about some trialist or young journeyman here he'd have been hung out to dry. Because the lad is of value and turned in good displays for the first team others are jumping to his defence. I hope Gary Fraser does get off lightly with a minimal ban as this will be some shock to his system and could be the wake up call he requires. I do tho' think he'll get a fairly lengthy suspension. You'll need to point out where I accused anyone of taking moral high ground, let alone you. Had you heard some of the versions of events that I have - that Fraser took a run and booted a defenceless player clean in the face, which doesn't appear to be quite correct - I'm pretty sure that you'd also say that things were perhaps blown out of proportion. With respect to your point in bold, what about Duggan? I've not seen anyone calling for him to be sacked despite seemingly playing an equally antagonising role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 That is up to Archie and Shaggy...Do they choose to stick to their words about attitude and work ethics? Or do they give him a second chance? I said what my opinion/hopes are at the end of my post - I hope he continues to play with us. Well actually, you said I think Fraser will have to leave. That's a direct quote from your post, but I assume you didn't mean that, but the last bit. Fair enough. Here's Archie: The situation with Gary Fraser was disappointing. I did not see the incident on Tuesday but the referee’s report does not make good reading. He is due to appear before the SFA in November and he will have to take his punishment then and we will deal with matters internally.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 You'll need to point out where I accused anyone of taking moral high ground, let alone you. Had you heard some of the versions of events that I have - that Fraser took a run and booted a defenceless player clean in the face, which doesn't appear to be quite correct - I'm pretty sure that you'd also say that things were perhaps blown out of proportion. With respect to your point in bold, what about Duggan? I've not seen anyone calling for him to be sacked despite seemingly playing an equally antagonising role. Sorry, Armand, I quoted you by mistake. Regards your last para I don't think there's much point bringing Duggan back into this. True, without his aggression prior to the specific incident it may not have occurred. He walked away, possibly at the cost of a teammate, but these things happen from time to time. However in absolutely no way did any indiscretion attributed to Duggan come anywhere near to what Fraser did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Here's Archie: The situation with Gary Fraser was disappointing. I did not see the incident on Tuesday but the referee’s report does not make good reading. He is due to appear before the SFA in November and he will have to take his punishment then and we will deal with matters internally.” More sound words from the Manager - not jumping to any rash conclusions and leaving his options open Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 More sound words from the Manager - not jumping to any rash conclusions and leaving his options open unlike this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 unlike this forum Good to see that more shows have been added! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) Very misleading topic title! But... How many folk that have commented on this thread were there on Tues night? How many folk on this thread would've supported Chic Charnley during his numerous spells at Firhill? Bottom line is the red mist descended. No different from Muirhead in cup final! No different from Archie nutting Dougie Imrie etc etc When the red mist descends... Anyway, my point is this. By whose reports will we see Gary Fraser ultimately punished? The ref & his linesman from the game the other night? The ref and the linesman who couldn't pick out the right man to send off (other than Fraser) when the incident settled? Hardly reliable witnesses & in a court of law the case could quickly fall apart if guilt had not been already admitted. He was wrong. He'll be punished & rightly so but as usual on this forum this thread is another example of over reaction. Perspective of situation given by John Potter. Whether he remains at Firhill beyond January is debatable but Archie a fan & he's been unfortunate to miss out on 1st team selection. Edited October 25, 2013 by Bleeding Gums Murphy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Very misleading topic title! But... How many folk that have commented on this thread were there on Tues night? How many folk on this thread would've supported Chic Charnley during his numerous spells at Firhill? Bottom line is the red mist descended. No different from Muirhead in cup final! No different from Archie nutting Dougie Imrie etc etc When the red mist descends... Anyway, my point is this. By whose reports will we see Gary Fraser ultimately punished? The ref & his linesman from the game the other night? The ref and the linesman who couldn't pick out the right man to send off (other than Fraser) when the incident settled? Hardly reliable witnesses & in a court of law the case could quickly fall apart if guilt had not been already admitted. He was wrong. He'll be punished & rightly so but as usual on this forum this thread is another example of over reaction. Perspective of situation given by John Potter. Whether he remains at Firhill beyond January is debatable but Archie a fan & he's been unfortunate to miss out on 1st team selection. Potter maybe has an ulterior motive though - his man was sent off too, for the 3rd time this season. So maybe an attempt to lesson the seriousness of the event ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Anyway, my point is this. By whose reports will we see Gary Fraser ultimately punished? The ref & his linesman from the game the other night? The ref and the linesman who couldn't pick out the right man to send off (other than Fraser) when the incident settled? Hardly reliable witnesses & in a court of law the case could quickly fall apart if guilt had not been already admitted. They are in fact reliable witnesses and it's not a court of law. No-one is suggesting that Gary Fraser is an innocent man accused of actions that were not his, so forget the "court of law" mince. Archie has read the Ref's report but he will also have heard from Scott McKenzie, who I don't imagine would have sugar-coated the story. There's no point in trying to gloss over events and suggest that people at the game (officials or spectators) didn't see what they saw because it doesn't suit. Fraser is clearly in the wrong big-style. He will have to make amends and give himself one hell of a shake, because that kind of behaviour will not fly. He is a young guy, and if we cast our minds back to the last time we were in the SPL and had a young player making his break into first team football at the top level, the name Adam Strachan will crop up. We all know where he ended up and I hope Archie can deal with the situation such that Gary Fraser ends up having a solitary blemish on his football career that he can put behind him rather than finding himself following in the footsteps of AS who I am sure could have done much better than he ultimately has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 25, 2013 Report Share Posted October 25, 2013 Not condoni.g what happened, but the guy who was the victim of Fraser's challenge was reportedly sent off for retaliation. At least the lad doesn't seem to have suffered any lasting damage and was man enough to accept Gary's apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 If he really is a good player, and he's maybe a bit mental, and therefore no one else wants him, then I'm seeing parallels with some of our legends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 If he really is a good player, and he's maybe a bit mental, and therefore no one else wants him, then I'm seeing parallels with some of our legends. Like who? We got good money for most of our "legends". Fraser is on loan so any parallels are in your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 Maybe now we can sign him for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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