Just In -- Relegation Material

[Stewarty]

Seeing as I called Gabriel a 'bomb-scare' I should respond to the above points. Yes, Conrad had a 'mare, yet I didn't single him out for criticism, so perhaps my comments were a tad selective and biased (although, I did say that the defence as a whole had a bad day at the office). The thing is, I've watched Conrad have great games for thistle and am aware of the strengths to his game. Now, granted, I haven't seen Gabriel play anywhere near as much as Conrad, but I can't lie; from what I have seen, to say that I remain unconvinced is to put it mildly. But I'm just a fan with an opinion, which I sincerely hope is misplaced. What is certain is that I'll give Gabriel my full support every time he steps onto the pitch in a Thistle jersey. I'm no boo-boy and hope to be eating humble pie in the near future.

[Veejag]

Thistlenowthistleforever is an actual genius.

[peagreenboy]

Thistlenowthistleforever is an actual genius.

 

You mean like an Idiot Savant?

[read'n'yell]

The difference between balatoni and Picollo, is that outwith two goals (which is obviously huge)! Balatoni was solid and won everything, whilst being able to play the ball out of defence. Picollo didn't and made a few terrible passes and headers. I think he needs a good time away from our first team as his confidence must be shot. Get him games in the reserves and build from there.

[Barney Rubble]

If both St Mirren and County win their next two games it'll be one hell of an achievement and they'll deserve to be above us.

 

If St. Mirren and County both win their next game it would be one hell of an achievement.

[stillresigned]

Glad to read that the last few pages are mostly reflective and realistic, having unrealistic ambitions will eventually get you absolutely nowhere in the long term, as our neighbours in Govan would attest, if only they were literate of course. I'm not for one minute advocate that we blindly accept whatever entertainment or excuse for entertainment is served up. I'm sure we all want to win every game we play, but experience dictates that if you want to be a Thistle supporter you've got to be considerably more accepting of failure than supporters of two other teams I can think of.

[peagreenboy]

If St. Mirren and County both win their next game it would be one hell of an achievement.

 

*WHOOOOOSH*

 

Or, thanks for crapping on the joke.

[potty trained]

The difference between balatoni and Picollo, is that outwith two goals (which is obviously huge)! Balatoni was solid and won everything, whilst being able to play the ball out of defence. Picollo didn't and made a few terrible passes and headers. I think he needs a good time away from our first team as his confidence must be shot. Get him games in the reserves and build from there.

 

Why would his confidence be shot? Unless he reads this forum.

 

Genuinely, why would it, he's acclimatising to the Scottish game, and hasn't cost us a goal in his last 3 appearances, United, Aberdeen and st mirren.

 

 

I'll give you an example of the closed view of some of our fans... On Saturday in the first half, odonnell plays a hospital ball to piccolo, who has a man on him, his only outball is fox, he plays it to fox first time, but fox has a man closing him....

 

Fox clears the ball to safety.... Do the thistle fans:

 

Lambast SOD for a stupid pass to a marked centre half(last man)?

Lambast Picollo for playing a pass to fox, even tho fox had space to clear first time?

Congratulate fox and piccolo for clearing SOD's initial error?

 

 

Yup, you guessed it... Number 2.

[read'n'yell]

Why would his confidence be shot? Unless he reads this forum.

 

Genuinely, why would it, he's acclimatising to the Scottish game, and hasn't cost us a goal in his last 3 appearances, United, Aberdeen and st mirren.

 

 

I'll give you an example of the closed view of some of our fans... On Saturday in the first half, odonnell plays a hospital ball to piccolo, who has a man on him, his only outball is fox, he plays it to fox first time, but fox has a man closing him....

 

Fox clears the ball to safety.... Do the thistle fans:

 

Lambast SOD for a stupid pass to a marked centre half(last man)?

Lambast Picollo for playing a pass to fox, even tho fox had space to clear first time?

Congratulate fox and piccolo for clearing SOD's initial error?

 

 

Yup, you guessed it... Number 2.

I don't know about you but if I came into a team, as a defender, and we shipped three goals twice and four goals the other two times (considering we had conceded on average 1 a game before that) then you would question your involvement. Even more so for a centre back. If I came in and played in midfield or upfront, I would still be concerned with that record. Regardless if he was directly involved, you can't of watched him and thought he look solid and reassuring? Aberdeen away I felt he was ok actually, and that's why I said put him in the reserves to get him match sharp and ready, I didn't say he would never come good. Could you seriously suggest you would keep him in the team next week?

Edited November 11, 2013 by read'n'yell

[Winter of '63]

 

 

Totally agree, all players have bad days, we have a young team and should be trying to encourage them especially the new heads, the slatting of Gabby as soon as his name was read out was a joke, give him a break, give him a a chance and he could come good, aparently a certain Mr Hansen was crap when he 1st came into the team

To paraphrase the famous response to Dan Quayle, the numpty American Vice-Predidential candidate, I saw a young Alan Hansen play some of his first few games for Thistle...Gabriel Piccolo is no Alan Hansen.

 

So far he reminds me more of Jean-Yves Anis. Unfortunately, his first contribution on Saturday was a hopelessly mistimed header which he didn't need to make and gave St Mirren a great scoring chance. It didn't help either the supporters or his team-mates confidence that he was up to the task.

 

I have to say I wasn't entirely convinced about Balatoni last season although he had some decent performances...and he was definitely at fault for all three goals on Saturday.

 

However, I don't think it helps to start keeping a scorecard of individual mistakes - unless someone makes some kind of defensive error, every game would finish 0-0. And although it was an awful result on Saturday, I've seen us play much worse in dozens of games over the years.

 

 

 

[allyo]

 

However, I don't think it helps to start keeping a scorecard of individual mistakes - unless someone makes some kind of defensive error, every game would finish 0-0. And although it was an awful result on Saturday, I've seen us play much worse in dozens of games over the years.

 

Agree with this. By all means defend Gabriel. As has been said, he's a young guy coming into a new team in a new country. But there's little point in doing this by pointing out the mistakes of others.

[Lenziejag]

I agree with what stillresigned said. We did play alright. Defending at the corner was terrible and this really needs to be and can be resolved on the training ground. Thompson was their danger man so had to be marked better. 2 bad corners in 2 home games consecutively.

 

Muirhead can also bring the ball out from defence and again has good passing. Get him in. Osbourne is a great prescence in midfield but his distribution is not great. Could we put Forbes there with him and Osbourne protecting the back four as Forbes has great passing ability, composure and set pieces. Keep the wing play and have a "Number 10" type behind Doolan and supporting him more. This could be Higgy more central? Craigen? Watching Thistle reminds me of a lot of Scotland games where we had Miller up front and no one supporting him enough from midfield. This looks similar to Thistle as there is a gap between Doolan and the midfield.

 

When you look back at where we were in November 2011 we have came a long way and with the youth and inexperience in the team a couple of humpings is not to be surprised. On a more positive note I am still loving the fact Firhill Road is busy before the game, better attendances and the home fans are still positive - Gabby could have been targeted on mass but he wasn't which is to our credit. Still need Muirhead back!

 

It struck me that it is difficult to practise defending corners against players like Thomson,Boyd etc because we don't have a player like that in our squad!

[ian_mac]

The difference between balatoni and Picollo, is that outwith two goals (which is obviously huge)! Balatoni was solid and won everything, whilst being able to play the ball out of defence. Picollo didn't and made a few terrible passes and headers. I think he needs a good time away from our first team as his confidence must be shot. Get him games in the reserves and build from there.

Am I reading this right?

 

Balatoni cost us 2 (arguably 3) goals on Saturday. We lost the game 3-0. But apart from that he was solid?

 

Great argument.

[ian_mac]

Agree with this. By all means defend Gabriel. As has been said, he's a young guy coming into a new team in a new country. But there's little point in doing this by pointing out the mistakes of others.

There is actually. It shows you how biased people are towards fans favourites and how quickly people are to get on the backs of the new guys, even when the fans favourite was to blame.

 

Makes it even funnier when you think back to the stick that Balatoni took when he first came to the club.

[Norgethistle]

 

I don't know about you but if I came into a team, as a defender, and we shipped three goals twice and four goals the other two times (considering we had conceded on average 1 a game before that) then you would question your involvement. Even more so for a centre back. If I came in and played in midfield or upfront, I would still be concerned with that record. Regardless if he was directly involved, you can't of watched him and thought he look solid and reassuring? Aberdeen away I felt he was ok actually, and that's why I said put him in the reserves to get him match sharp and ready, I didn't say he would never come good. Could you seriously suggest you would keep him in the team next week?

 

Let's remember that Fox has pulled of a barrel load of saves in most games, that's where our defence have let the attackers through. Our goal a game lost with Balatoni & Muirhead is probably more down to Fox than the pairing

[scotty]

Spot on Uber.

 

 

On saturday there was maybe 3000-3500 Thistle fans in the crowd for what could be called a derby! 3000, when we are in the top league playing great football. What sort of crowd would people expect as we head into winter, colder saturday afternoons, and adopt a long ball, 10 men behind the ball approach thats been called for? who in their right mind wants to watch that, after the last 18 months? folk would walk away in their droves!

 

 

I didn't know how low the attendance was until this morning,

Once the 'not been to Firhill for years' novelty wears off for the rest of the teams the figures are going to start looking awful the way things are going.

 

How many season tickets have we shifted this season?

 

I fear that if our home form continues then we will just see crowds dwindle as we head into winter.

Fancy football is one thing but for non season ticket holders and even more for those folk who started to come along to Firhill when we got into the "big league" then not having seen a win will surely put off many of them. I've noticed that in the JH stand a lot of the kids who have season tickets are just not coming along.

[potty trained]

 

 

 

I fear that if our home form continues then we will just see crowds dwindle as we head into winter.

Fancy football is one thing but for non season ticket holders and even more for those folk who started to come along to Firhill when we got into the "big league" then not having seen a win will surely put off many of them. I've noticed that in the JH stand a lot of the kids who have season tickets are just not coming along.

 

It's a fine line... Attract fans through entertaining football that sees you 8th in the league.

 

Or revert to long ball, ten men behind the ball dirge, in the hope that we start getting results... Do folk start coming, paying 20 quid to watch rubbish, if we are winning?

 

What happens if we start playing st mirren football, and it turns out our players can't play that way, and we get beat every week?

[allyo]

 

There is actually. It shows you how biased people are towards fans favourites and how quickly people are to get on the backs of the new guys, even when the fans favourite was to blame.

 

Makes it even funnier when you think back to the stick that Balatoni took when he first came to the club.

 

Okay. Disagree. This thread's turning into a Balatoni bashing session today. I can't see the positive in that, even if he did make a few mistakes.

 

Last season's back four plus Fox, when playing together, have been pretty solid this season. That's a valid argument. Fox has made good saves but he isn't a one man show. A defensive unit builds an understanding. The fact that Gabriel isn't part of that shared experience isn't his fault and doesn't make him a bad player, but it's fair to suggest that our 'regular' back five have a better chance of competing at this stage. That's not bias and it's not necessarily because they're fans' favourites.

[mhs]

 

 

Okay. Disagree. This thread's turning into a Balatoni bashing session today. I can't see the positive in that, even if he did make a few mistakes.

 

Last season's back four plus Fox, when playing together, have been pretty solid this season. That's a valid argument. Fox has made good saves but he isn't a one man show. A defensive unit builds an understanding. The fact that Gabriel isn't part of that shared experience isn't his fault and doesn't make him a bad player, but it's fair to suggest that our 'regular' back five have a better chance of competing at this stage. That's not bias and it's not necessarily because they're fans' favourites.

 

Spot on.

[Lenziejag]

 

 

It's a fine line... Attract fans through entertaining football that sees you 8th in the league.

 

Or revert to long ball, ten men behind the ball dirge, in the hope that we start getting results... Do folk start coming, paying 20 quid to watch rubbish, if we are winning?

 

What happens if we start playing st mirren football, and it turns out our players can't play that way, and we get beat every week?

 

I think that supporters turn up to see wins. After all ST Mirren brought a decent support to watch "St 'Mirren football" which has seen them win 3 of the last 4.

 

I haven't seen the breakdown of the attendance for Sat, but it looked like 1000 St M fans, which means almost 4000 jags on what was an appalling day weather wise.

[potty trained]

 

 

I think that supporters turn up to see wins. After all ST Mirren brought a decent support to watch "St 'Mirren football" which has seen them win 3 of the last 4.

 

I haven't seen the breakdown of the attendance for Sat, but it looked like 1000 St M fans, which means almost 4000 jags on what was an appalling day weather wise.

 

1542 st mirren fans.

 

Which means 3400 jags fans for a home "derby".

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1542 st mirren fans.

 

Which means 3400 jags fans for a home "derby".

 

The North Stand looked to have more than usual no doubt down to the kids policy change. So by my reckoning the JHS must've been noticeably less than half full.

[scotty]

It's a fine line... Attract fans through entertaining football that sees you 8th in the league.

 

Or revert to long ball, ten men behind the ball dirge, in the hope that we start getting results... Do folk start coming, paying 20 quid to watch rubbish, if we are winning?

 

What happens if we start playing st mirren football, and it turns out our players can't play that way, and we get beat every week?

I was commenting on the steady reduction in numbers not on whether we should change our style of play. I'd rather watch decent football but I've got a season ticket!

[uberteeb]

The opening game of the season is always going to see a big bounce but you would think our home gates would have stablised after that. They are pretty much getting worse every week.

[Mr Bunny]

The opening game of the season is always going to see a big bounce but you would think our home gates would have stablised after that. They are pretty much getting worse every week.

 

Are they? The start of the St Mirren game I thought we were playing pretty well and made some decent chances - not stonewall chances but decent ones. Then we gave an unnecessary goal away. That's what's really killing us at home. The 0-3 against St Mirren was really a 0-1 exaggerated by O'Donnell's sending off which they took advantage of. If we'd not given a goal away with poor defending we'd have got at least a draw. We might even have got a draw if we'd stayed with 11 men - or the ref gave the penalty he should have.

 

That's not to say there isn't a problem. Just that it isn't the huge problem some folk seem to think. I think we need to concentrate on stopping giving goals away too easily and the goals up front will come. Players score when they are relaxed - when they're worried about a bad run of games (at home in our case) or about something like giving goals away at the back then they get nervous and it affects the forward play.

 

I would be far more worried if the team was playing poor football and never creating chances. We are still playing good football and although we maybe don't create as many dead cert chances as we should we still create enough half decent chances that we should score more often than we do. It's a matter of finding the right balance of getting the defending to be sharper while maintaining the same attacking verve we've shown so far.