Dundee United V Partick Thistle - Saturday 23 November 3Pm K.o.

[stillresigned]

The fact that we are going through a rough patch is unfortunately undeniable. I like most Jags fans are somewhat cheesed off. Nonetheless, it doesn't help matters to fantasise about buying loads of new players and adopt Lambie-esque tactics in the New Year. It won't happen end of, we've no money for starters. In case anyone's forgotten, we've just emerged from one of the worst periods in our entire history the Bunnet etc. Unfortunately, there is no quick solution to this situation, and if one does emerge it'll have to come from the management and players we already possess in the main. Confidence is obviously at a low ebb, as I've said before now's when Archie and Shaggy will earn their corn. To be honest over the last year or so this side have served up the best football I've ever seen from a Thistle side, so I'm sure as he'll not gonna throw a fit. I'll do the only thing I can and that's to support Partick Thistle.

[kni]

That is extremely harsh, In fact a ridiculous comment. I dont think loyalty has anything to do with our predicament. It's the fact we have no money to sign good players to replace the ones not good enough!

 

I agree though that he doesn't seem to be able to change it. Very much the whyte and Britton arms folded " we won't change it as it'll work" tactics. I love Archie but I think he's been Sussed as has been said and doesn't have the savy to change it. We looked doomed.

 

It's fair to question if the club's limited funds have been invested wisely. Osborne and Higginbotham have been very good signings but the manager signed Baird, Kerr, Mukendi and McMillan who have contributed very little so far.

 

McMillan has been unfortunate with illness and injury but his performance this afternoon only highlighted how much we rely on O'Donnell. Baird and Kerr have had hardly any game time recently. Fraser, even before his lengthy suspension, was also confined to the bench for over a month but the manager wants to extend his loan.

 

Young players who were signed as prospective squad members have not even made the bench, e.g. Colina, McDaid and (possibly) Duggan. Duggan has been prolific for the U20s who are top of the league but has not even made the bench. McAleer, McGuigan and Scully have been sent out loan but it's likely that we are subbing their wages.

 

ETA - My expectations at the start of the season limited and I will be delighted with 10th place or better.

Edited November 23, 2013 by kni

[Yellow & Redneck]

Again Archie is saying all the right things on the BBC Interview, but to be honest, heard it all before: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/25071324#asset

 

Losing a goal so early is completely unacceptable at any level, and away from home it is always going to be an uphill struggle whenever it happens. We were fortunate to go in just 1-0 down at the break, but there did seem to be a resurgence after the restart, and I felt on the balance we deserved our goal. But once again, for the umpteenth time this season we conceded just 10mins after getting the equaliser. Getting sick to the back teeth of it. After we scored we looked nervous at the back, and they had a succession of corners that we didn't do well at clearing.

 

Same old story, but overall I feel we are in real danger of finishing 11th. We can't defend, that much is clear, and Doolan is far too isolated up front to be making a consistent impact in the team. A major rethink is needed. I'm not 100% fussed with the cup this season, so I wouldn't mind changing it up a little for the Aberdeen game.

[thistlenowthistleforever]

Totally understandable that people want to buy better players but it ain't going to happen so let's stop that chat. There is a winning team in what we have but Archie has to bench the passengers we have atleast 4 I won't say names but we all know who they are, yes fantastic last year but not cutting it this year. We want to remain in this league and we will not the way we are playing. We have players I believe will do a better job who remain to be getting splinters in their arse from sitting on the bench, why may you ask? because Archie doesn't have the knackers to bench no gooders at this stage. Let's hope Archie proves me wrong

 

Yes the team was top class last year we won the league loved every minute off it but we are in the big boys league and want to remain in it.

 

 

 

So lucky Hearts have been deducted points

[jlsarmy]

Just back from Dundee from another woeful performance except from about 10 mins of the second half,some of the tactics we're deploying are really beyond belief,most supporters could tell you how Dundee Utd play,you've got to sit in and not allow any space for Gauld,GMS etc to run into,we played far too high up the park exposing McMillan especially,maybe not pretty to watch but you've got to give yourself a chance, Archie has got to learn quick that it's sometimes about grinding out a result. We've not got a big pool of players but they all should be used,mix it up a bit Gabby and Osbourne sitting midfield players protecting back four,utilise Elliot's pace and power somewhere in the team ? ,can't keep picking same players week in week out when we're getting heavily beaten

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Just back from Dundee from another woeful performance except from about 10 mins of the second half,some of the tactics we're deploying are really beyond belief,most supporters could tell you how Dundee Utd play,you've got to sit in and not allow any space for Gauld,GMS etc to run into,we played far too high up the park exposing McMillan especially,maybe not pretty to watch but you've got to give yourself a chance, Archie has got to learn quick that it's sometimes about grinding out a result. We've not got a big pool of players but they all should be used,mix it up a bit Gabby and Osbourne sitting midfield players protecting back four,utilise Elliot's pace and power somewhere in the team ? ,can't keep picking same players week in week out when we're getting heavily beaten

 

Some good points there, jlsarmy, but you've got the wrong thread. This is the trial by video feed. You're out your depth.

[jlsarmy]

What is your constructive criticism then L I B ?

Edited November 23, 2013 by jlsarmy

[lady-isobel-barnett]

What is your constructive criticism then L I B ?

 

Sorry. What I was really getting at was the lack of a "just in" thread where your comments would be more valued. Here it kinda gets diluted with the views of folk who weren't at the game. Not meaning by any means that those who haven't been at Tannadice have views that are in any way are invalid, just that those who've been at the game imo carry more weight.

Edited November 23, 2013 by lady-isobel-barnett

[jlsarmy]

Unfortunately I was at the game today and Archie did make strange decisions ie taking Forbes off when when we were on the ascendancy etc etc,just didn't understand your out of depth comment !

 

Edited November 23, 2013 by jlsarmy

[Norgethistle]

Yep. That's correct (though I could argue that it's not "plus out of a cup", since you've included that in the defeats). And between 22 September and 23 October we won one, drew one and lost one (very unfortunately) in the league, and went out of the cup. Three of these four games were away from home. I'd say that's okay for a team just promoted.

 

So I would maintain, we've had a bad month. If you want to twist statistics to extend our bad run and undermine the team's previous achievements then you go for it.

 

Ok lets make it simple 4 points in 7 league games for 2 months or zero points from 3 games (GF-1 GA-11) that sound any better??

[Norgethistle]

That is extremely harsh, In fact a ridiculous comment. I dont think loyalty has anything to do with our predicament. It's the fact we have no money to sign good players to replace the ones not good enough!

 

I agree though that he doesn't seem to be able to change it. Very much the whyte and Britton arms folded " we won't change it as it'll work" tactics. I love Archie but I think he's been Sussed as has been said and doesn't have the savy to change it. We looked doomed.

 

Nonsense we are in the league of milk & honey otherwise the club (BoD) would have been maximizing our revenue streams through Dvd sale, TaG etc etc

 

If Archie has no money blame the board for sitting with their finger up their bahookies whilst we wanted to sign up for TAG and buy DVD's etc, with our cash to help

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

I don't think I can add to much to what's been said. i do think we will need a few players in January to bolster the squad. However, although we have been leaking goals at a fast rate recently, Ross County who have played a game less have let in more goals. We have scored more goals than Hibs and Hearts and we're still 4 points ahead of a seasoned Kilmarnock team. Of course, we may end up 11th and our fear of play offs does make that scary but I'm sure we will get through this season with our Premiership membership intact.

[Alan Murray]

Some of the knicker wetting on here really is ridiculous – I know it is frustrating at the moment but a wee bit of common sense would be good. Two united goals came after our first sending off. Did people really think we would not lose heavily in this league?

 

On to the game and it was disappointing, but we were up against a very good Dundee united side at the top of their form.

 

I don’t want to be too hard on Macmillan but he was poor. It was always going to be a hard task for him with being out for so long but we really missed SOD.

 

We are over the place for the first goal but we have to say the movement of the United attacking players is top class.

 

We do need to be more defensive when playing team like united. We need Osbourne to sit deeper when our full backs attack. Too many holes in defensive not being filled when they are up the park.

 

Both Forbes and Sinclair had excellent games. I felt both Craigan and Higginbottom were below par. Doolan worked hard with the little service he got. Elliot did well when he came on.

[uberteeb]

Losing an early goal changes everything but we held on until half time, equalised and then got worn down by a team with ridiculously good attacking players (ie our best player last season doesn't get a sniff). Results like this at teams as good as Aberdeen, Celtic and Dundee United are inevitable. Tactically, if we hadn't been taking risks away from home we'd have a lot less points than we have now.

 

It was like Southampton going to Arsenal yesterday, both play good football but one team has far superior players and it shows, particulaly when the good team is at home.

 

We have 3 points from the last 15. A realist expected 3, an optimist expected 5 and a mentalist expected 6+. Had we beaten St Mirren at home and lost to ICT away we would have the same number of points and people wouldn't be hammering at their keyboards in rage.

[marco77]

^{The step up in divisions is a bigger one than people think. Teams are faster, stronger and have better fitness levels. We have the lowest budget in the league and it does show. We have 2 first team strikers, 3 centre backs and 1 leftback at the moment. The squad we have means we are unable to make drastic changes to the team when needed. Against Utd their centrebacks (Soutar especially) were able to carry the ball out as the other defenders only had Doolan to mark, this enabled them to have an extra man when attacking.}

[Lenziejag]

 

 

That's the thing Joe, we used to be great, and it was great. But that was then, and this is now. And right now we're honking, we're hurting, and it's all a bit torturous, especially as it doesn't look like it might get better any time soon. We can't even do a St Mirren and pack the defence, play awful football, but not leak goals, as our defence doesn't seem capable of even that ...

 

Losing eleven goals in the last three games and pretty much being humiliated in the last two is a kick in the baws for everyone, and floating about telling us how good we were a year ago is only going to piss people off tonight.

 

It is not humiliating when you lose goals when one or two men down. DU score goals for fun and have scored 4 a lot this season( not just against us) . Ross Cty, STJ and STM I think have all suffered

[Auld Jag]

Losing an early goal changes everything but we held on until half time, equalised and then got worn down by a team with ridiculously good attacking players (ie our best player last season doesn't get a sniff). Results like this at teams as good as Aberdeen, Celtic and Dundee United are inevitable. Tactically, if we hadn't been taking risks away from home we'd have a lot less points than we have now.

 

It was like Southampton going to Arsenal yesterday, both play good football but one team has far superior players and it shows, particulaly when the good team is at home.

 

We have 3 points from the last 15. A realist expected 3, an optimist expected 5 and a mentalist expected 6+. Had we beaten St Mirren at home and lost to ICT away we would have the same number of points and people wouldn't be hammering at their keyboards in rage.

After 5 games we had 8pts.From our last 9games we have got 5pts.1 win since August.2 seasons ago Dunfermline started with 8pts from 5 games also and finished with 25pts.

[Willjag]

Worth remembering that 4 of the 11 goals conceded in the last 3 games when were we had less than 10 men on the park. I'd like to see us bring in an experienced defender to make a 3 at the back along with Muirhead and Balitoni. In the meantime, I wonder if playing McMillan inbetween M&B might work, especially in away games where our fullbacks are getting caught too far up the park with little or no cover from the defensive midfielders?

[uberteeb]

After 5 games we had 8pts.From our last 9games we have got 5pts.1 win since August.2 seasons ago Dunfermline started with 8pts from 5 games also and finished with 25pts.

 

Let's not look for any positives, brick up the tunnel, I don't want to see that glimmer of light.

[kni]

Worth remembering that 4 of the 11 goals conceded in the last 3 games when were we had less than 10 men on the park. I'd like to see us bring in an experienced defender to make a 3 at the back along with Muirhead and Balitoni. In the meantime, I wonder if playing McMillan inbetween M&B might work, especially in away games where our fullbacks are getting caught too far up the park with little or no cover from the defensive midfielders?

 

To state the bleeding obvious, all goals against count no matter how many players we have on the park. The players have to be very disciplined (like Osborne) and not make silly challenges that result in second yellows or straight reds.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

To state the bleeding obvious, all goals against count no matter how many players we have on the park. The players have to be very disciplined (like Osborne) and not make silly challenges that result in second yellows or straight reds.

 

Been impressed with Osbourne's restraint. After his first yellow with us up at Inverness (incidentally a very dubious booking) there was a general opinion that Archie best sub him before he got a second yellow. Despite ICT players doing their damnedest to provoke the big man he kept his cool but still remained at his best. Same goes for his other two yellows, again both first half bookings. Didn't have the same provocation as at Inverness but did very well in not letting the threat of an ordering off affect his game.

[milhouse]

Let's be realistic here. We are going away in the Premier League. Playing against a club whose playing budget far outstrips our own. The referees will give us nothing. Why is that a straight red for Bannigan? We are under pressure from the first minute. Did I expect much else? But I am proud of the fact that our young, inexperienced team and manager came out after half-time and tried to win that football game.

 

Hearts are on minus 3 points. We have 13 points after 14 games. We have won 3 away games already and I barely expected to win that over the course of a season.

 

10th place this season against hammer-throwers like St. Mirren and Ross County and it will be an incredible achievement by Archibald and this squad.

 

The siege is on and I believe we can do it. We deserve it.

 

Don't anybody give up yet

[sb1876]

I'm not a ref but wondered why the penalty did not result in a red card? If it was deliberate hand ball blocking a direct shot heading towards goal is that not denying a clear goalscoring opportunity? A foul's a foul whether it's bringing someone down or putting your arm out and deflecting the ball.

 

I remember that their is or used to be a qualified ref on here a while back, I'd appreciate an outline of what would qualify as a red card for deliberate handball in the box. In this instance the defender was definitely the last (only) player between the shot and the keeper.

 

Cheers!

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

I think we do need to remember that each week we come against players who have played more games in this league than our first team combined. It is that experience we need, with someone able to be a commanding presence in the team and give a boot up the bahooky when it's required . . . someone with a bit of savvy.

[Paulo]

So it looks like our system isn't working now.

 

With the enforced changes, will we also change the formation to give something a go? We desperately need some sort of cover on the flanks when defending. Either our full backs are pressed back for too long, dragging the midfield around, or caught too far up the park, dragging the centre backs out of position.