lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 I wouldn't fancy summer football either. Besides pitches would be poorer as you'd be struggling to find time to re-seed them. What I would like to see is the season extended perhaps by two or three weeks by both starting a bit earlier and finishing a bit later. Enough time to implement a mini winter break. Despite being a traditionalist I no longer see the point of playing games when there's no public transport so I'd scrub games on the 1st and 2nd January and for good measure the first weekend game after New Year. Still enough latitude to maybe play postponed games on a spare Saturday later in the season rather than some freezing miserable evening in February. I'd argue that cramped fixtures suit the bigger clubs who can rotate their squad easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Think we would do well to get back to having two divisions as I believe it would imrove both the skill and entertainment level. Sick of playing the same old teams over and over, the split has made it even worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Think we would do well to get back to having two divisions as I believe it would imrove both the skill and entertainment level. Sick of playing the same old teams over and over, the split has made it even worse! Unquestionably help increase away support. Would also be a boost for cup competitions as you wouldn't be drawn against teams that you'll play another four times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't fancy summer football either. Besides pitches would be poorer as you'd be struggling to find time to re-seed them. What I would like to see is the season extended perhaps by two or three weeks by both starting a bit earlier and finishing a bit later. Enough time to implement a mini winter break. Despite being a traditionalist I no longer see the point of playing games when there's no public transport so I'd scrub games on the 1st and 2nd January and for good measure the first weekend game after New Year. Still enough latitude to maybe play postponed games on a spare Saturday later in the season rather than some freezing miserable evening in February. I'd argue that cramped fixtures suit the bigger clubs who can rotate their squad easier. The chance of getting out to see a game is one of the things that makes New Year bearable for me - there's also a lot of people who come back home at this time of year and it's an opportunity for them to go to a game. Crowds tend to be higher - the weekend before Christmas would be a better option for no games in my view. Other than that, I entirely agree. We play Hamilton on Wednesday 21st January - there is a full League programme that midweek. Most people will be short of money with Christmas Bills to be paid and it's likely to be freezing - the JHS Stand is the coldest place I go to. It's the worst possible time of year to fit in an extra game. There are no other midweek games scheduled until 8th April and we'll play our final game(unless we are in the Cup Final or play-off) early in May. It's patently absurd - I would like to think our club would be at the forefront in lobbying the SPFL to move to a more customer-friendly arrangement of fixtures. Edited January 5, 2015 by Winter of '63 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I see that ICT are trying out a "Pay What You Want" match against St. Johnstone. I'd be surprised if this produces anything other than a loss of income; I'd expect many of those attending to either stump up nothing at all, or a quid or two at most. I wonder if the scheme is also open to away fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 There are plenty of mentions of unpleasant wintry conditions, but these seem to be accepted as part of the price we pay for watching football in Scotland, rather than as a challenge to designers' ingenuity. Perhaps some thought needs to be given to reducing the discomfort for spectators. Getting out of the wind and rain is a start, but is there no more that can be done to baffle the wind? Our modern stands are on solid concrete, which remains cold throughout the winter months. Is some kind of heat insulation out of the question? Alternatively, could wind turbines on top of stands be used to generate a steady warmth within the concrete, using it as a kind of heatsink? Given the large unused roof surfaces, does solar power generation offer anything? Having said that, is it not the case that a poor result the previous week is the best explanation for a poor crowd the following week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I've always thought that it would be great if some patio-style heaters could be placed throughout the stand - no idea what the cost/logistics/effectiveness would be though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colognejag Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) They have exactly that at PSV Eindhoven! Went to a Champions League match there mid winter and it was boiling in the top tier! Edited January 7, 2015 by Colognejag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I've always thought that it would be great if some patio-style heaters could be placed throughout the stand - no idea what the cost/logistics/effectiveness would be though... They have that at the Viking stadium (Except the away end), that plus horns, lights, free pizza haven't stopped the crowds plummetting from 12000 ave to around 3500 over 5 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I've always thought that it would be great if some patio-style heaters could be placed throughout the stand - no idea what the cost/logistics/effectiveness would be though... Not so sure of that one, MP, but if only we could channel the hot air generated on here when a result doesn't go our way, we'd be on a winner. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Not so sure of that one, MP, but if only we could channel the hot air generated on here when a result doesn't go our way, we'd be on a winner. We could power scotland with that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Again unpopular response no doubt but I agree - Rangers are missed by the whole of Scottish football I knew I'd stumbled on your ***** before. Perhaps you read that on Follow Follow, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Getting out of the wind and rain is a start, but is there no more that can be done to baffle the wind? Our modern stands are on solid concrete, which remains cold throughout the winter months. Is some kind of heat insulation out of the question? Alternatively, could wind turbines on top of stands be used to generate a steady warmth within the concrete, using it as a kind of heatsink? Given the large unused roof surfaces, does solar power generation offer anything? Having said that, is it not the case that a poor result the previous week is the best explanation for a poor crowd the following week? I've often thought about that. Obvious places for installation of solar panels. How about either that or one or two wind turbines on the bing? Maybe that way they could offer warm water in the toilets..... and watch the crowds flocking to Firhill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 We could do worse than take some tips from Braehead Clan on how to market games and how to maximise revenue once people are inside the stadium. I've been there a few times - the whole 'matchday experience' is light years ahead of that at Firhill. I'm quite a big hockey fan and Braehead is the one Elite rink I'm in no hurry to return to, I'd honestly rather go to an away game in Hull. As a friend I took along said "It's like they play hockey during the breaks in entertainment." It's an incredibly patronising experience. It's actually difficult to concentrate on the game because the "entertainment" is so pervasive. It is working though as attendances are very good, but if it's simply people through the doors that they're after they should open a supermarket, not run a sports club. There's a balance to be had. I'd like to think that if Thistle went down this route they'd have more respect for the traditions of the game and the intelligence of the fans. As for summer football, it's amazing how much a difference the weather makes to my enjoyment of a game. I've seen a few games out in Mexico and it's wonderful watching football in thirty degree heat. I went too far the other month watching Ghana in high humidity forty degree heat. That midweek December evening I spent at the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium reminded me how shite our weather is for a sport where spectators are still for two lots of forty-five minutes. There's the argument that lots of people are away on holiday during the summer months, but apparently attendances are low in November, December and January because of the cost of Christmas so that may balance out. The lack of competition from TV showings of more glamorous European leagues might make a difference as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm quite a big hockey fan and Braehead is the one Elite rink I'm in no hurry to return to, I'd honestly rather go to an away game in Hull. As a friend I took along said "It's like they play hockey during the breaks in entertainment." It's an incredibly patronising experience. It's actually difficult to concentrate on the game because the "entertainment" is so pervasive. It is working though as attendances are very good, but if it's simply people through the doors that they're after they should open a supermarket, not run a sports club. There's a balance to be had. I'd like to think that if Thistle went down this route they'd have more respect for the traditions of the game and the intelligence of the fans. I agree with much of this - I went to a Capitals game when in Washington late last year and, by comparison, Braehead is amateur (I've not been to any other UK stadium so have no frame of reference) My point is more around how they sell catering (orderly queues, rapid service) organise 50/50 draws (people around up until end of second interval to maximise sales) run additional competitions (raffles for signed shirts/sticks etc...) and how they make the game an occasion - and manage to fill two 20 minute breaks (chuck a puck etc...) It all seems to be part of a continuous presentation - before and during the game. I would like to see a Thistle home game becoming more of a joined-up event where football is the main, but not only, aspect - stuff on before, a proper programme of activities at half time etc... Obviously there are two major benefits to Braehead that we can't copy - they can sell beer and the rink is indoors. Both of these make attending more enjoyable. As for Braehead, my only real complaint is around music - they play tunes too often and they play too many 'twee' kid-friendly melodies. I they focussed more on the 'rock' songs that you more associate with hockey it would be better but that's my male/adult view - you can't deny that what they currently do has been successful in attracting women and children to the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delthejag Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 2 leagues and summer football is the consensus amongst season ticket holders of various clubs in ma work. Unfortunately I don't see any chance of either, which imo will result in a continual decline in crowds, which may lead to less money generated and paid to players, lessening standards which will lead to less crowds - total vicious circle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 2 leagues and summer football is the consensus amongst season ticket holders of various clubs in ma work. Despite the quotation this isn't specifically pointed at you delthejag, you just got me thinking. If we're wanting to increase attendances surely we should be asking those who aren't going what needs done to get them to games rather than those who go to every game already? So many of the surveys you read about ask questions of those who are ardent fans of various clubs. They should be stopping folk in Hamilton, Inverness and Kilmarnock town centres and asking them what is putting them off going to games. What would it take to get the 7,000 or so Kilmarnock fans at the turn of the century who don't go any more to start going back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) Despite the quotation this isn't specifically pointed at you delthejag, you just got me thinking. If we're wanting to increase attendances surely we should be asking those who aren't going what needs done to get them to games rather than those who go to every game already? So many of the surveys you read about ask questions of those who are ardent fans of various clubs. They should be stopping folk in Hamilton, Inverness and Kilmarnock town centres and asking them what is putting them off going to games. What would it take to get the 7,000 or so Kilmarnock fans at the turn of the century who don't go any more to start going back? Agree. Most of us who go to games can only imagine the reasons and will be prejudiced by their own bugbears. In my case it's the small league set ups and the resultant repetitiveness of fixtures. Others attendees are saying summer football would help but they've no doubt been influenced by having their proverbials near frozen off lately. I think we can discount "not playing attractive football" as a principal reason, otherwise there'd be a much greater difference in attendances from say the last Dick Campbell season a division below. I wonder tho' the honesty/accuracy of the answers from those on the periphery and ex attendees. I sense the questions would have to be well phrased to avoid glib/inaccurate answers. Somebody saying they no longer go as it's no longer value for money would tell us zilch. Same as a "too expensive" reply. Imo train fares, travel in general, satellite TV subscriptions, a cup of coffee in most shopping centres are all ridiculously over priced but the relative industries appear to be thriving. On the positive front the one thing football has got is people still want to talk about it. Sadly they're not so keen on attending. Edited January 9, 2015 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Personally, I think that the main issue is that there is so much football (and often better football) on TV. Until relatively recently, if you wanted to watch football you had to go to a match. Since then, more and more of us (though not myself) have Sky/BT, which along with European games on terrestrial TV, means that football is available to watch at home virtually every day. This has a myriad of different effects. One is football saturation- people become fatigued by all the football and can't be bothered to go out of their way to see more. Another is that impressional kids are growing up supporting English, and increasingly, Spanish sides (I see that the BBC now does live online commentry for Spanish games). Also, the subscription fees to these channels are not cheap, and for many people it will be a choice between a satellite TV package (with 24/7 entertainment) or a season ticket (a couple of hours entertainment every two weeks). I'm not sure what can be done about it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustic Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Personally, I think that the main issue is that there is so much football (and often better football) on TV. Until relatively recently, if you wanted to watch football you had to go to a match. Since then, more and more of us (though not myself) have Sky/BT, which along with European games on terrestrial TV, means that football is available to watch at home virtually every day. This has a myriad of different effects. One is football saturation- people become fatigued by all the football and can't be bothered to go out of their way to see more. Another is that impressional kids are growing up supporting English, and increasingly, Spanish sides (I see that the BBC now does live online commentry for Spanish games). Also, the subscription fees to these channels are not cheap, and for many people it will be a choice between a satellite TV package (with 24/7 entertainment) or a season ticket (a couple of hours entertainment every two weeks). I'm not sure what can be done about it, though. Spot on! Also the poor performance of the Scotland team over the last 20+ years doesn't help - kids don't grow up proud of their country as a footballing nation - so many lose interest in it for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego Posted January 9, 2015 Report Share Posted January 9, 2015 Another is that impressional kids are growing up supporting English, and increasingly, Spanish sides (I see that the BBC now does live online commentry for Spanish games). Somebody made a great point a few weeks ago that there may be a silver lining in there as children will grow up supporting Barcelona (a horrid club, but that's for another time), Chelsea or whomever with Thistle/County/Forfar/et cetera as their Scottish team, whereas for most of the last thirty years they'd support one of the Old Firm and have a "soft spot" for their local side. It might not make a huge difference but it could help in some way. We're stuck in a pretty bad position as far at the BBC goes. They can promote the hell out of Spanish and English football because that's what people want to find out about and they massively oversell women's football as they need to be seen promoting female sport. Scottish football however is neither hugely popular nor seen as a minority so they don't need to put that much effort in. BBC Scotland TV and Radio do a reasonable job but the coverage online and on national BBC channels is pretty poor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Where have all the fans gone? Simple they're too busy on Fans forums criticising their team, managers, board etc, to go to the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I'm afraid teams like Thistle have been the losers in the massive economic and social changes that have affected Glasgow in particular essentially since the end of the war. Its going to take some radical thinking to attract people through the door, perhaps the one bright spark is that increasingly people even in the West of Scotland do not want every facet of their life to be identified with either their religion or the lack of it. Its extremely difficult for us who see ourselves as (fairly) rational and liberal people to try and devise schemes to attract some of our neighbours whom by the evidence of past experience are plainly not. What exacerbates things from a Thistle perspective is that compared to the fare served up on TV almost daily nowadays, is that effectively we're run on a comparitive shoestring. I wish I had a magic answer, to falling attendances, which have been falling essentially since I was a boy, but I really and truly don't. Edited January 10, 2015 by stillresigned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Personally, I think that the main issue is that there is so much football (and often better football) on TV. Until relatively recently, if you wanted to watch football you had to go to a match. Since then, more and more of us (though not myself) have Sky/BT, which along with European games on terrestrial TV, means that football is available to watch at home virtually every day. This has a myriad of different effects. One is football saturation- people become fatigued by all the football and can't be bothered to go out of their way to see more. Another is that impressional kids are growing up supporting English, and increasingly, Spanish sides (I see that the BBC now does live online commentry for Spanish games). Also, the subscription fees to these channels are not cheap, and for many people it will be a choice between a satellite TV package (with 24/7 entertainment) or a season ticket (a couple of hours entertainment every two weeks). I'm not sure what can be done about it, though. I'm afraid this is one of the accepted views that doesn't fit the facts...... We still had this problem when there was much less football on TV 20 years ago Why are most English premier league games sold out ? How do you explain attendances in Germany ? Etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm afraid this is one of the accepted views that doesn't fit the facts...... We still had this problem when there was much less football on TV 20 years ago Why are most English premier league games sold out ? How do you explain attendances in Germany ? Etc etc EPL is broadcast worldwide increasing it's foreign fan base and income (from sky) to put a better player on the park. The amount of foreign fans that attend EPL games is massive, there are nearly 500 travel from Norway every home game to either old trafford or Anfield, when the attendances over here are down. The amount of games on TV has boosted the English game at a detriment to the smaller leagues in Europe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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