Duke Gekantawa Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 How about something really radical, and trying 2 front players. It sort of worked for Hearts today didn't it? But I don't think we lost because of tactics or formation. I thought we were ok until they scored, and could have scored ourselves. Ultimately we lost today, because we defended very poorly, particularly second half. Lindsay was particularly culpable, though he's young and should improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 How about something really radical, and trying 2 front players. It sort of worked for Hearts today didn't it? Which worked because Hearts have two physical, mobile strikers. They also have good discipline at defending deeply, as on numerous occasions we had two banks of four in front of us. When Djoum/Buaben did drop deep to collect the ball from Alexander, they more often than not sent it long to previously said strikers. If Thistle did that, we'd lose the ball due to not being physical enough up top, then we'd have a man short(in most games) in midfield meaning we'd be overrun, therefore exposing the defence. A lot of people dislike the one up front tactics but it is a neccessity as we don't have enough quality in midfield to cope with being a body light there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Blows Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Archie must go. Said it time and again that he is tactically naive, even after being in charge for so long. Watched a short feature on Sky Sports news today about Villa and it's exactly the same but on a bigger scale. Refreshing to see their fans being brutally honest in saying they're going down as it stands. Fortunately for them they've bulleted their manager and may still be able to salvage it. Unfortunately for us we shouldn't continue to kid ourselves on. We're going down with Archie in charge. At least let's try someone else and maybe we could salvage a play off spot. At least give it a go. St Mirren now = Thistle in 1 years time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Archie must go. Said it time and again that he is tactically naive, even after being in charge for so long. Watched a short feature on Sky Sports news today about Villa and it's exactly the same but on a bigger scale. Refreshing to see their fans being brutally honest in saying they're going down as it stands. Fortunately for them they've bulleted their manager and may still be able to salvage it. Unfortunately for us we shouldn't continue to kid ourselves on. We're going down with Archie in charge. At least let's try someone else and maybe we could salvage a play off spot. At least give it a go. St Mirren now = Thistle in 1 years time. Aye, except you said the same last season, and the season before that. You also said the same about McNamarra a couple of seasons before that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 We played some good stuff before they scored. Amoo was much better at getting to the byeline,Osman,Lawless and Bannigan were contributing but there was no goal threat because of a lack of bodies in the box. We're going down if we continue the same way so let's score some goals and see if we can win some games. Play 2 up front for god sake. Ok he's tried it twice and it didn't work but how many times has the sole striker worked without Lyall Taylor who probably kept us up in the last 2 years. Change the system. Entertain. Do something! Waken up man. The writing was on the wall when Archie was happy to lose only 2-0 to Celtic. Give our top goalscorer a chance with some support in the box whether it's Pogba, Nisbet or Muirhead. The substitution of lawless for Stevenson was the final straw. Might as well have gone home then. The guy has an affront taking a wage. I appreciate that it may not be possible due to lack of money but ideally we need a clear out in January. This year's signings are all useless except Dumbuya. And Stevenson should be dismissed instantly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think we are in serious trouble I'm afraid. Other teams around us are improving and Accies have a sizeable gap in points. I don't know the answer but something has to change quickly Always thought this season was gonna be a struggle and I said so at the start of the season. Over the last few seasons we have lost vastly influential players like ATS, SOD, Higgy, Taylor, Balatoni, McMillan, Craigen and in most cases replaced them with inferior players. That's budget cuts for you (except in the McMillan case) Also add Gary Fraser, who I thought would be a massive player for us, being out through injury and lack of form etc. These are not excuses, they are facts. The manager is not immune from criticism here. He has made mistakes and yes, I do agree, we don't appear capable of changing anything with the players coming on from the bench. From a team that was fast and attractive to watch, we have become a very pedestrian looking side, with one of the slowest strikers I have ever seen in all my years watching the club. Yesterday proved that losing Cerny for a month will be a severe blow. Honestly can't see us being out the bottom two come the end of the season, unless we can hang in there and the board unleash some reasonable money in January, even then it might be too late. Pretty sure the fixtures in the next two months will determine our fate this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Archie's a young manager, but he's got to realise that players get you fired. There are guy's he's putting into the match day squad who are simply not up for it. Time to go to the board and ask for their backing in turning things around in January. In my opinion Pogba, Amoo, Stevenson and Welsh should all be moved on. I'd let Scully and McDaid go as well. We need to bring in better quality players or we're going down. Not optimistic that the board will be prepared to support the manager though, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1876Jag Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 And Archie could've easily brought Doolan on or made some sort of change to try something different. He chose not to, just as his 2 previous subs resulted in players being moved into positions which resulted in us playing the same formation. His lack of willingness to tey anything different is ridiculous. So your solution is to leave one young centre half, who is on a yellow card, in a 3 man defence which the Hearts front two were having a field day in the second half against??? It was exactly the right substitution. If not, what happened at the 4th goal would have happened numerous times. The heads were down and was a damage limitation exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel J. Botch Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Absolutely shocking back to back home performances. I can accept that at times we will get outplayed and battered by a better team. Hearts didn't need to work too hard for that battering. Archie has tried many different player combinations to get 4-5-1 to work and with our current personnel, it just doesn't this season. Even with the win at St Jonstone, we scored 2 wonder strikes then don't create too much else. The plan yesterday seemed to be get the ball wide to Amoo to cross for Pogba. The problem is Amoo doesn't seem confident enough to get past his man and get a cross in. Even when he does it almost always hits the first man. He went missing after the break. Pogba...jeez oh, where to start. In fact probably best not too, other than the run, or non run, in the first half where he was played through and he didn't know what to do with the ball sums the guy up. Honking. Individual errors cost us all over the park though. Scully makes a save at the first, maybe could have been stronger in the save, but may have seen it late, but we switch off allowing the heats player to cross and score with no pressure from us. That kinda set the tone for me. Liam had a stinker, been sent off and cost us a few goals this season. Time for a rest. Seam Welsh swaggers about as if he owns the place and has not been at the races for weeks. I could go on. I'm sure Archie will be 'disappointed' or 'bitterly disappointed' as per every defeat. I think he is virtually unsackable but persisting with Pogba in this formation is the kind of decision that is going to bring some amount of pressure on yourself. Once the fans start voting with their feet the writing is on the wall. Onwards to next week, I'd love to see 4 or 5 changes. I expect to see 2 with Dan struggling and Scully suspended. More of the same anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 So your solution is to leave one young centre half, who is on a yellow card, in a 3 man defence which the Hearts front two were having a field day in the second half against??? It was exactly the right substitution. If not, what happened at the 4th goal would have happened numerous times. The heads were down and was a damage limitation exercise. The main point I was making though was even if it hadn't been an injury, any change would've been like for like. However, I didn't say leave a back 3. He could've tried something. Why not put Osman back into defence and put an attacking minded or forward player on. We were clearly not getting anything from the game, why not use the remaining time to try a dufferent tactic in a competitive game, knowing that if it doesn't work, nothing was really lost? Even if it was the right sub, why didn't we make big changes before that point? Perhaps damage limitation should be the plan for the rest of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 The system should be changed to suit the players - not the other way round. Even the likes of ponderous Pogba might be of some use if he had quick players round him, but that's clearly not happening. The obsession with putting in crosses that don't even trouble defences, let alone create scoring opportunities, is beyond satire. From time to time I go to watch amateur football in Germany, and the standard of play makes it much more interesting than the likes of the long ball game played yesterday. It's not just the lack of success on the park, but also forgetting that this is supposed to be entertainment. On current form, we'll not just go down once, but twice (remember Falkirk). Can the club survive that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 But I don't think we lost because of tactics or formation. I thought we were ok until they scored, and could have scored ourselves. Ultimately we lost today, because we defended very poorly, particularly second half. Lindsay was particularly culpable, though he's young and should improve. We lost the game because the players chucked it, created zilch (I must have missed the opportunity to score you mention), poor crosses, and the inability of the manager to change things (like for like subs, same formation, same "tactics"). But I see that we're going back to basics in training (again) so everything will be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 The match stats make sorry reading: Shots: Thistle 1, Hearts 12 Shots on target: Thistle 0, Hearts 8 Good crowd, though: 4,776 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Shocking the way the defenders sauntered back as the Hearts player ran into the box before getting fouled by Scully. They'd given up; that's not what they are paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome on the Bing Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) I was relatively pleased with the first-half performance, given how poor we were last week. We pressed high up the pitch and started to play with greater composure. The second-half performance, however, was dire. I'm not convinced that the problem is the formation per se; after all, there are reasons why 4-2-3-1 is the most popular formation in modern football. The problem is more fundamental than this unfortunately. We are extremely one dimensional, in that we rarely play through balls in behind the opposition defence, even when someone with pace, such as Doolan, is playing up top. Instead we rely on hitting Pogba with crosses and long balls. This means is that when he isn't able to win his aerial battles, as was the case yesterday, we're completely toothless. And even when he is able to get the better of the opposition back four, we rarely have midfielders running beyond him, anticipating flick-ons. But even more fundamental than this, there's no getting around the fact that the first team, and the squad more generally, is significantly weaker than was the case last season. If this is due to us having a relatively low playing budget -- and I don't have data to hand to answer this conclusively one way or another -- the fault, in so far as any can be apportioned, may not be the manager's. Either way, unless we can find a way to strengthen the team during the transfer window it looks like the play-off spot is the best we can hope for. Such is the life of the Thistle fan though -- with the average attendance we're attracting at the moment there's only so much that can be achieved. Edited November 1, 2015 by Gnome on the Bing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 The system should be changed to suit the players - not the other way round. Even the likes of ponderous Pogba might be of some use if he had quick players round him, but that's clearly not happening. The obsession with putting in crosses that don't even trouble defences, let alone create scoring opportunities, is beyond satire. Exactly, We expend all our energy in the first 30 min of each game and then struggle physically for the rest of the match too. Our players aren't athletic enough to do this. The complete lack of attacking from central midfield is making us so one dimensional that we are the easiest team in the league to defend against . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Exactly, We expend all our energy in the first 30 min of each game and then struggle physically for the rest of the match too. Our players aren't athletic enough to do this. The complete lack of attacking from central midfield is making us so one dimensional that we are the easiest team in the league to defend against . Probably time to give Fraser another chance. One thing he has in his locker that no one else in that position has, is the willingness to push forward and have a dig. Time to give Sean a spell on the bench Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Defending for all 4 goals poor, the 4th is shocking as every player just gives up, I think Scullys tackle may be born of frustration with his defense chucking it and leaving him so exposed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Chips are down, Thistle are up against it and Seabourne suddenly becomes injured. I'm sure I've seen this film before.... We're a soft touch, far too slow and defensive. If we keep that formation and team it's going to be a long winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I was relatively pleased with the first-half performance, given how poor we were last week. We pressed high up the pitch and started to play with greater composure. The second-half performance, however, was dire. I'm not convinced that the problem is the formation per se; after all, there are reasons why 4-2-3-1 is the most popular formation in modern football. The problem is more fundamental than this unfortunately. We are extremely one dimensional, in that we rarely play through balls in behind the opposition defence, even when someone with pace, such as Doolan, is playing up top. Instead we rely on hitting Pogba with crosses and long balls. This means is that when he isn't able to win his aerial battles, as was the case yesterday, we're completely toothless. And even when he is able to get the better of the opposition back four, we rarely have midfielders running beyond him, anticipating flick-ons. But even more fundamental than this, there's no getting around the fact that the first team, and the squad more generally, is significantly weaker than was the case last season. If this is due to us having a relatively low playing budget -- and I don't have data to hand to answer this conclusively one way or another -- the fault, in so far as any can be apportioned, may not be the manager's. Either way, unless we can find a way to strengthen the team during the transfer window it looks like the play-off spot is the best we can hope for. Such is the life of the Thistle fan though -- with the average attendance we're attracting at the moment there's only so much that can be achieved. According to Chic Dung and the Hearts manager, Thistle were clearly the better team in the 1st half....... but no shots on target. There is definitely a serious problem about how we try to create chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Next week - drop Welsh, bring in Frans for Seabourne, Miller for Lindsay, Muirhead up front with Doolan. Scrap this ridiculous back 4 with "protecting" 2 midfielders malarkey and play 4411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Next week - drop Welsh, bring in Frans for Seabourne, Miller for Lindsay, Muirhead up front with Doolan. Scrap this ridiculous back 4 with "protecting" 2 midfielders malarkey and play 4411 Completely agree with the sentiment, but I'd go for different personnel. I'd keep Lindsay in if Seabourne is out, otherwise Frans and Seabourne and I'd like to see Doolan playing infront of Pogba. Although he isn't fast, I think Pogba holding the ball up and playing in Dools or flicking long balls on to him may work. Definitely think 4411 is worth a go though. Gals, Dumbuya, Frans, Seabo(Lindsay), Booth, Lawless, Banzo, Osman, Amoo, Pogba, Dools. ETA I should say that I don't want us resorting to the long ball game but having a bit of variety and the opportunity for Doolan to get in behind from the odd flick on gives us a different dimension to constantly swinging balls in from the wings which are ineffective. I really think we should be looking to improve our movement and play through the middle more. Edited November 1, 2015 by jagman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 I saw this, and it started before we fell behind. I genuinely thought they were going to have a square go. I thought there was a lot of disharmony after this, also. I dont think Ive ever seen that between two Thistle team mates. I remember once Chico threw a lump of grass at Jim Kerr because he didn't pass him the ball but yesterday i thought they were going to come to blows when they went head to head. Think it was Abdul broke them up.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Completely agree with the sentiment, but I'd go for different personnel. I'd keep Lindsay in if Seabourne is out, otherwise Frans and Seabourne and I'd like to see Doolan playing infront of Pogba. Although he isn't fast, I think Pogba holding the ball up and playing in Dools or flicking long balls on to him may work. Definitely think 4411 is worth a go though. Gals, Dumbuya, Frans, Seabo(Lindsay), Booth, Lawless, Banzo, Osman, Amoo, Pogba, Dools. ETA I should say that I don't want us resorting to the long ball game but having a bit of variety and the opportunity for Doolan to get in behind from the odd flick on gives us a different dimension to constantly swinging balls in from the wings which are ineffective. I really think we should be looking to improve our movement and play through the middle more. Absolutely. Whatever happened to running at defenders and taking them on? Or heading to the goal line? Instead of this tippy tappy side to side stop and take a touch back and swing in an aimless ball from 25 yards nonsense. We can't defend and we're too negative at other end of the pitch. It's no wonder we are where we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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