Dick Dastardly Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 What ever happened to the proposed training facility in Twechar ? Could that plan be resurrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Love the fact that we have nomads who live on the other side of the world vowing never to return if we install an artificial surface, Your bluff will be called on this gentlemen. Artificial surfaces are getting progressively better with each generation and it's only a matter of time before all clubs of our size have them. This luddite attitude being displayed by some here is nothing more than posturing. If you are prepared to walk away because of an artificial pitch then I seriously question how much of a supporter you were in the first place. Ian, I'd question the use of the word "Luddite". You're inferring from that the future will be artificial pitches and those opposing them just now are merely standing in the way of the inevitable. Whilst I can envisage plastic surfaces improving I don't see why grass technology and greenkeeping in general won't advance also. From what I hear effective grass maintenance continues to improve in other sports. If it's just a question of time till all clubs our size install artificial surfaces does it stop there? St Johnstone, Motherwell, ICT, County have them, while Hearts, Hibs, ugly sisters, Aberdeen remain on grass. We convert to plastic in an attempt to attain an elite status academy while the clubs more likely to have them play their football on grass. That to me doesn't seem right. Nor would playing our home European ties away from Firhill be welcome either Others will see the financial benefits of going artificial. But if our peers all do likewise we're competitively no better off. Not something I would really know about for certain, but from an incremental point of view of hiring out the pitch I doubt Firhill would be anywhere near as lucrative as more provincial areas where competition is low or non existent. I don't see anything wrong with preferring watching football played on grass. God knows there's enough not right in Scottish football what with Doncaster, Regan, stupid league systems, constant pandering to two vile institutions etc. Don't want to add to the misery. Edited February 9, 2017 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Love the fact that we have nomads who live on the other side of the world vowing never to return if we install an artificial surface, Your bluff will be called on this gentlemen. Artificial surfaces are getting progressively better with each generation and it's only a matter of time before all clubs of our size have them. This luddite attitude being displayed by some here is nothing more than posturing. If you are prepared to walk away because of an artificial pitch then I seriously question how much of a supporter you were in the first place. The old I,m a better supporter than you again. This is one of your favorites of late. I wonder who appointed you as the arbitrator of just who should be allowed to be a supporter. Circumstances change and although still proud to be a Nomad I am now based at home. I still travel a lot to work but take in every game that I can. Still I bow to you guys who follow the Jags everywhere as the "Superior" supporters. I would tend to say it is also good to have a balance of supporters who don,t follow meekly and do not have the attitude that they would follow the jags even if they played in a barn. I kept to my promise of not attending any games away from home on artificial surfaces and you can hold me to account for any future decision that I will make if you wish. I will continue to follow the Jags and don,t give two hoots on your opinion of who is a true supporter and who is not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I'm unclear, from reading the article, as to the reasoning behind laying an astroturf surface and how it ties in with the continuance of the academy. Is it to allow Firhill to be used as the training centre? If so I wonder how much would need to be spent on the stadium to provide the facilities needed.To try to attain an elite academy status, would we need to turn our backs on the community programs? To be using Firhill to train first, development/reserve teams and however number of "elite" youth teams we would try to support, surely would stop the club from utilising the pitch for any commercial use in order to bring some income? The Elite Academy plan seems to me to be a way of channeling funding into providing the Scotland team with the talent we are lacking. But as tennis is finding out, without a broad base of youngsters taking up the sport at all abilities, aiming the resources at a so called elite will only benefit the few who are already at the top of their game and not necessarily bring along new talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 To take such a stand really is cutting off your nose to spite your face. The only time I ever seriously considered giving up my season ticket were the wilderness years between our playoff win at Peterhead and our promotion in 2013. Firhill really was grim at that period. We were continually finishing mid table in the 1st division and the state of the pitch was truly dreadful. We clearly had some talented players but they quite simply weren't able to do anything on such a terrible pitch. Had it not been for a group of friends that I enjoyed spening time with on a Saturday, I wouldn't have attended anywhere near as many games at Firhill. Green keeping methods may be improving but the cost of maintaining a good grass pitch is astronomical for a club of our size. I worked at Newcastle United during the Olympics in 2012 and they had a team of 5 or 6 guys working on the pitch full time. They had 4 sets of lamps on the pitch at any one time as well. That's the kind of investment required to maintain a modern day top level grass surface and I don't need to tell you that it's a complete non starter for a club like us. We all claim to want to see attacking free flowing football. As the season goes on, that becomes increasingly difficult to do at Firhill and many other places, simply because it becomes impossible to maintain the pitch to a high standard with our resources. So, an artificial pitch would make it a lot easier for us to play the way we want to play, and the fans would have a lot more chance of being able to watch the type of football we all want to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I fully admit my view on artificial surfaces is totally subjective. I've watched roughly an equal amount of U20s games this season on grass and plastic and I know what I much prefer. If anything the youngsters have played better on grass but I only mention that to highlight the fact they're far from reliant on only being able to perform on one surface. If that wasn't the case we would have a serious problem. Not renewing a season ticket if plastic was installed isn't a case of spitting the dummy. It would/could be a case of crossing a threshold. Many a supporter can be swithering over renewing for a variety of reasons, personal as well as dissatisfaction. Even staying out of the boring St Johnstone debate, there's the ugly sister visits, amount of non Saturday matches and my own bugbear, the repetitiveness of fixtures within the stupid wee leagues. Watching football played on an artificial surface may just be a case of the camel's back. Put another way I doubt you'd hear of lapsed fans returning because we've stopped playing on grass. Just as a specific the last time we played at NDP was as shocking a spectacle as you'll witness. I can't mind if there was a strong wind but the bounce that day was ridiculous. Imo bad enough playing twice a season at the likes of NDP without adding to the misery. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Sorry but I disagree about the last game at NDP. There was a very strong wind but I thought we played some really good stuff that day and should have won the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Sorry but I disagree about the last game at NDP. There was a very strong wind but I thought we played some really good stuff that day and should have won the game. We did win the game (paraphrasing the Mourinho principle: Booth's goal was onside despite idiotic linesman's raised flag). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Been reading a few articles on Project Brave, still no mention of artificial pitches. I'm assuming it's a prerequisite of being one of the eight Elite level teams or at least it adds points to the selection process which is being carried out by an Independent company. Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Hibernian and Aberdeen seem shoe ins which is a bit surprising for the latter as I'm not sure they have a dedicated training facility. Forth Valley and Fife are likely to be selected leaving one place with Hamilton, Motherwell and St Mirren being mooted due to their set ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 After a 3-0 mauling at Rugby Park a few seasons ago I vowed to never watch a game again that is played on an artificial surface. I have kept to that 100%. Watching something akin to football with the baw stoating all over the place and players feart to put in a full bodied tackle. nah nah its not fur me. That could be the biggest decision I will ever have to face with watching the Jags. As someone who donated to pay for the centre of what looks to be a great new grass park I have to say I would likely sign out. There I said it. I wouldn,t be back. No for me football has to stay on grass. There are somethings that shouldn,t be sold out whatever the reason. This is one of them. Those statements by Archie sound like fishing. Say something so the club can gauge the reaction. Hope this now gets brought up big style at the much publicized Jags Trust meeting. As the Colonel from Monty Python would say "Silly..This is just silly" I remember that 3-0 loss at Kilmarnock. It was a dreadful Jags performance, lacking skill and spirit and submitting meekly to a seemingly inevitable heavy defeat. That would have been a miserably poor showing on any surface. Since then by my reckoning we have returned to Rugby Park 4 times and all have been exciting and entertaining games. There have been two 2-2 draws where we scored the last goal on both occasions,,a fine 2-0 victory last season to secure our safety with Muzzy outplaying first Josh Magennis and second Kallum Higginbotham in a memorable display. And there was of course the Kris Doolan and Robbie Muirhead inspired 5-2 horsing . So lots of good games on the Killie Astro to add to some decent showings at Hamilton as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roque Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Since we were gubbed 4-1 by Ross County at home, I vowed never again to return to watch us on natural grass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Since we were gubbed 4-1 by Ross County at home, I vowed never again to return to watch us on natural grass. Maybe you should smoke something else instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Since we were gubbed 4-1 by Ross County at home, I vowed never again to return to watch us on natural grass. Is never been the same since they stopped playing on red ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 I don't think the club go down the route of an artificial pitch at Firhill. What they are really wanting is a facility similar to what St Mirren have at Ralston. They have both grass and artificial pitches and the first team and academy players are based there. They all eat there as well and there is a gym. Currently, our first team uses Garscube Sports Complex and Lesser Hampden to train. The academy and grassroots teams spread their training across places like Petershill, Springurn, Firhill Complex and Lochinch. The development squad even play some home games at Airdrie. A new facility would actually save costs in the long run by bringing everything under 'one roof', as well as the possibility of elite status. Obviously the initial outlay is the problem. It would, in relative terms, cost an astronomical amount of money to build such a place. There is only one possible way that we will be able to afford to do this, and the cynic in me believes the seed has now been planted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 'seed', 'planted' - I see what you did there! Oh sod it, don't start that again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Sod it! Will you be needing "Four candles" then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Project Brave is effectively set up to ensure the big clubs get first choice on any decent youth players coming through, this was a total carve up also to ensure "certain clubs" facilities may be aided with funding as this kicks off. I spoke to someone very involved in this a few months ago prior to it being named and published and it was basically put as "we need to safeguard the big 6 for the future of Scottish game" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Been reading a few articles on Project Brave, still no mention of artificial pitches. I'm assuming it's a prerequisite of being one of the eight Elite level teams or at least it adds points to the selection process which is being carried out by an Independent company. Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Hibernian and Aberdeen seem shoe ins which is a bit surprising for the latter as I'm not sure they have a dedicated training facility. Forth Valley and Fife are likely to be selected leaving one place with Hamilton, Motherwell and St Mirren being mooted due to their set ups. Dundee United will be the other one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 That Edinburgh Derby was a great advert for natural grass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 That Edinburgh Derby was a great advert for natural grass. Loathe to criticise that pitch considering the state our pitch has been in over the years, but for a so called " big club" like Hearts, that pitch was an embarrassment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted February 12, 2017 Report Share Posted February 12, 2017 Youth setup. Should we merge and combine resources with another club(s)? Don't see why not? Pitch. Did you see goalmouth area at Dunfermline in cup game? Boys club stuff. A real muddy affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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