Emsca Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: My job is law related but I am not in legal practice. Are you the Janny at Glasgow Sherrif Court? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: If so, we're talking about the potential for a censure, fine, expulsion, or ejection from the Challenge Cup (I assume that means the Scottish Cup) It is the Scottish Cup - its Sunday name is the SFA Challenge Cup/Trophy or something like that. Oh my, what WILL we do if we don't get a game in the Cup - we've done ever so well in it in the recent past eh? Threat threat, blah blah, move on! See you in court Edited June 19, 2020 by gianlucatoni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 This is the usual thuggery, threats and bullying that is par for the course of Scottish football. It will only get nastier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: The SPFL‘s Articles of Association are lodged with Companies House and publicly available. The SPFL’s Rules are in a PDF on its website. I don’t think that’s quite right and in any case resort to CAS depends in part on the nature of the dispute. It is ultimately a form of arbitration that the relevant parties need to agree to. If this is indeed a requirement that applies to disputes of this kind I’d be interested to know why the French and Belgian disputes haven’t (yet) gone through CAS and why, for that matter, Thistle went through the domestic courts when it unsuccessfully challenged the old SPL’s decision about Inverness. Re your latter point the requirement to 'keep disputes in house did not exist at the time of the Thistle-SPL-Inverness dispute. Re the recent French and Belgium court cases. I thought about these as you have as well. Then I recalled reading that the legal challenges were not raised by the clubs who faced. Relegation but strangely enough by the respective National Governments! I didn't double check this point, too late and too tired, but pretty certain about the French connection, less so about the Belgium. I am sure the legal teams have considered this in taking this case to court. Many organisations, companies etc are required to develop rules and regulations to reflect the laws of the country or environment (EU) in which they operate, for example, Health and Safety. In so doing many also add additional levels of rules and regulation - like this requirement. This is actually a major bone of contention that stimulated Brexit. UK Govts, particularly Conservative, tend to legislate at the minimum level while the EU and many EU Countries tend to legislate at the maximum level - such as this rule to keep disputes within the sporting arena. However there are no circumstances which I am aware of, where a company or organisation, such as UEFA, SFA, SPFS can introduce a rule which supercedes the law of the land or removes, prohibits or otherwise diminishes the rights, given to individuals, companies or organisations to exercise these rights! There is nothing to stop a body introducing such rules etc with the expectation that members will follow them and indeed inplement sanctions. However this will lead to more legal action if sanction are severe, such as termination of membership and the affected member can show the rule prohibits their statutory and legal rights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Further to my earlier post. The various Chairman quoted (unattributed) in the Daily Record article sound quite emotional using phrases like "these clubs are holding a gun to our head", "maybe one of us should ask Doncaster to kick them out" One of these unattributed sources states "at a time when Scottish Football is (financially) on its knees' and so on. Let's not forget that the current SPFL President/Chairman Lacchlan McLennen held a senior management role in the Group of Companies which owned the Dakly Record and did he not have some tole/influence in the newspaper itself? At a time when Scottish Football is financially challenged do they, SFA & SPFA, really think that our clubs are going to take a sanction like suspension or termination of membership without challenging it! Eventually pragmatism will set in but before it does we must expect some bullying and threats. If it doesn't then we will all be ruined and Scottish Football will consist of Celtic, possibly Rangers and a few clubs supported by a wealthy benefactor but not enough to make up a League! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Apologies for typing errors. My eyesight and eye-hand coordination are not what they were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Further to my earlier post. The various Chairman quoted (unattributed) in the Daily Record article sound quite emotional using phrases like "these clubs are holding a gun to our head", "maybe one of us should ask Doncaster to kick them out" One of these unattributed sources states "at a time when Scottish Football is (financially) on its knees' and so on. Let's not forget that the current SPFL President/Chairman Lacchlan McLennen held a senior management role in the Group of Companies which owned the Dakly Record and did he not have some tole/influence in the newspaper itself? At a time when Scottish Football is financially challenged do they, SFA & SPFA, really think that our clubs are going to take a sanction like suspension or termination of membership without challenging it! Eventually pragmatism will set in but before it does we must expect some bullying and threats. If it doesn't then we will all be ruined and Scottish Football will consist of Celtic, possibly Rangers and a few clubs supported by a wealthy benefactor but not enough to make up a League! As this gains momentum, I think this will be resolved outwith Court whether that’s through mediation from the SFA or Doncaster and Co seeing common sense as they are probably issues that have happened which they would prefer to keep in-house rather than for public consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 wonder if any of these 'unnamed' chairmen will be stupid enough to stick their two bobs worth into tomorrow's Sportsound - come on you muppets... stick your heads above the parapet so we can see who you are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Emsca said: Are you the Janny at Glasgow Sherrif Court? Are you a judge in the Court of Session? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 51 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Further to my earlier post. The various Chairman quoted (unattributed) in the Daily Record article sound quite emotional using phrases like "these clubs are holding a gun to our head", "maybe one of us should ask Doncaster to kick them out" One of these unattributed sources states "at a time when Scottish Football is (financially) on its knees' and so on. Let's not forget that the current SPFL President/Chairman Lacchlan McLennen held a senior management role in the Group of Companies which owned the Dakly Record and did he not have some tole/influence in the newspaper itself? He also worked for Peter Lawell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARu-Strathbungo Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, exiledjag said: Further to my earlier post. The various Chairman quoted (unattributed) in the Daily Record article sound quite emotional using phrases like "these clubs are holding a gun to our head", "maybe one of us should ask Doncaster to kick them out" One of these unattributed sources states "at a time when Scottish Football is (financially) on its knees' and so on. Let's not forget that the current SPFL President/Chairman Lacchlan McLennen held a senior management role in the Group of Companies which owned the Dakly Record and did he not have some tole/influence in the newspaper itself? At a time when Scottish Football is financially challenged do they, SFA & SPFA, really think that our clubs are going to take a sanction like suspension or termination of membership without challenging it! Eventually pragmatism will set in but before it does we must expect some bullying and threats. If it doesn't then we will all be ruined and Scottish Football will consist of Celtic, possibly Rangers and a few clubs supported by a wealthy benefactor but not enough to make up a League! Something I posted a few months ago [source Private Eye]:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, ARu-Strathbungo said: Something I posted a few months ago [source Private Eye]:- They’ve obviously got a team of “ Shiftys “ there now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 Teams in Holland now heavily compensated for calling the Leagues to stop it going to court . If you take into account that the other teams who called their Leagues early Belgium and France have had their relegations ruled against. Precedents are being set , looks promising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 I see Ian Maxwells letter to UEFA saying clubs wanted to end the season before any vote was taken is re emerging as an issue.....and the sfa cups have not been closed down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, javeajag said: I see Ian Maxwells letter to UEFA saying clubs wanted to end the season before any vote was taken is re emerging as an issue.....and the sfa cups have not been closed down Mmm. Something fishy going on ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 I greatly appreciate Woodstock Jag's arguments for and against (mainly against) the court action which highlights the complexities involved. For what it's worth I can recall two "lost causes" which were won. 1. O J Simpson found not guilty of murder despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary 2.Elon Musk won defamation case despite calling British cave rescuer a "pedo guy" I know they were both American cases but it proves that somethings don't always turn out as expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: Mmm. Something fishy going on ??? Doesn’t look good at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: Mmm. Something fishy going on ??? Not sure how the SFA can write to UEFA about closing down leagues until it’s ratified by their member Clubs . Think Maxie and Doncaster are too cosy in their Hampden offices . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 As I have said I am no a lawyer but I can't helping feeling all these public statements and threats by "unattributed" chairman can't do anything but help our case in so much as they can be interpreted as representing attempts to coerce and intimidate Hearts and Thistle for doing what is within their legal right to do - take this matter to Court under the Laws of the Land! It is therefore important that representatives of Hearts or Thistle (Budge and Low or other Diectors and Senior officials) refrain from responding in kind or in fact making any Public Statements. I expect a letter will be going out from the SPFL instructing Chairman etc to shut up going forward!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, javeajag said: Doesn’t look good at least Hopefully our QC's use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb1876 Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Third Lanark said: hope some of the SPFL lawyers are not regulars on this forum- they will surely just steal WJs posts for to use in court I didn't realise that Doncaster was actually Woodstock Jag masquerading as a jags fan!!!! In all fairness I am actually enjoying reading the debate, much better than lots of the other 'i'm a better fan than you' content on other threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Not sure how the SFA can write to UEFA about closing down leagues until it’s ratified by their member Clubs . Think Maxie and Doncaster are too cosy in their Hampden offices . Suspect the more the SPFL & SFA legal representatives look into this they are finding that their client"s behaviour has been less than ethical! This letter smacks to me as a belated attempt to cover their respective backs. Too late in my view given the ethical flaws, for example, conduct of the April vote and Brechin City being treated differently from Hearts, Thistle & Stranraer. I think there is real scope for our legal team to exploit the relationship between the SFA & SPFL in relation to the Brechin 'affair'! 1. The SPFL's refusal to put forward Brechin for the play-off with the non-league team (excuse was frivolous and in breach of rules governing the pyrimid system) 2. The phone conversation (which is now a matter of public record) between the SPFL and the Lowland League to accept Brechin in spite of Brechin being in the Highland League Geographical area (threatened to end the participation of Lowland League clubs in the Challenge Cup) 3. The failure of the SFA to challenge the SPFL on this subject can be interpreted as condoning the SPFL's intimidation. 4. The role of the Brechin Chairman in this affair especially as he happened to be on the SPFL Board at the time! From the above we have examples of the different application of rules affecting relegation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, sb1876 said: In all fairness I am actually enjoying reading the debate, much better than lots of the other 'i'm a better fan than you' content on other threads. WJ knows his stuff and his politics are fairly sound too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, exiledjag said: Suspect the more the SPFL & SFA legal representatives look into this they are finding that their client"s behaviour has been less than ethical! This letter smacks to me as a belated attempt to cover their respective backs. Too late in my view given the ethical flaws, for example, conduct of the April vote and Brechin City being treated differently from Hearts, Thistle & Stranraer. Brechin are being treated the same as every club that finished in a playoff spot. Because they finished in a playoff spot. The playoffs were cancelled because they couldn’t guarantee the games would be played. 18 minutes ago, exiledjag said: I think there is real scope for our legal team to exploit the relationship between the SFA & SPFL in relation to the Brechin 'affair'! There’s nothing to see there. 18 minutes ago, exiledjag said: 1. The SPFL's refusal to put forward Brechin for the play-off with the non-league team (excuse was frivolous and in breach of rules governing the pyrimid system) It’s not one playoff. It’s a playoff between two non league clubs followed by a playoff between the winner and the bottom team in League 2. It was cancelled for the same reason the Premiership, Championship and League One playoffs were cancelled. You’re making something out of nothing. 18 minutes ago, exiledjag said: 2. The phone conversation (which is now a matter of public record) between the SPFL and the Lowland League to accept Brechin in spite of Brechin being in the Highland League Geographical area (threatened to end the participation of Lowland League clubs in the Challenge Cup) What are you talking about? I’ve seen absolutely no reference to this at all. Is this some pish in the Rangers “dossier”? 18 minutes ago, exiledjag said: 3. The failure of the SFA to challenge the SPFL on this subject can be interpreted as condoning the SPFL's intimidation. What intimidation? 18 minutes ago, exiledjag said: 4. The role of the Brechin Chairman in this affair especially as he happened to be on the SPFL Board at the time! From the above we have examples of the different application of rules affecting relegation! No we have all playoffs being treated the same (cancelled as the games couldn’t take place) and all automatic relegation spots being treated the same (enforced, along with promotion, titles and European allocation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted June 19, 2020 Report Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: He also worked for Peter Lawell still does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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