jlsarmy Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 19 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: I also think arbitration is futile and that we shouldn't bother, but it is at least less objectionable and, importantly, could have been done without involving the courts at greater expense and time wasted. Why is arbitration futile , we’ll get a result of some sort ,would imagine possibly reconstruction on the table or even some sort of compensation . If you combined either of these scenarios , we might even get rid of Doncaster as I would imagine his job might become untenable. Your advice to bend over and take it is totally off mark , the majority of Clubs all voted out of Self Interest , there is no reason why we shouldn’t fight this unfair relegation and which threatens our own existence as a football club. All we’ve done so far is join the cartel of the Self Interest . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, East Kent Jag II said: He sees the lack of sporting integrity in promotion being denied, but by inference, (in contesting the case), he doesn't see it in demoting teams in such circumstances? Have the press not got this wrong? Is this statement not from those other hypocrites Clyde? There is a difference between taking a decision that has this effect in April, giving a club 4-6 months to plan for their fate, and taking it in July, giving them potentially 3 weeks. 45 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: I know I am going to regret this but here goes. If there was an ongoing discussion about reconstruction which if adopted would have meant Dundee Utd, Raith & Cove being promoted and no relegations would it have been acceptable for us to ask for arbitration? From what I read Lord Clark seemed to be of the opinion that whilst reconstruction was still an option we were correct to give that every chance. There is a difference between saying: (1) it was reasonable for Hearts and Thistle to hold off lodging a formal dispute and (2) they were not entitled to raise a dispute at an earlier stage. 30 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Why is arbitration futile , we’ll get a result of some sort ,would imagine possibly reconstruction on the table or even some sort of compensation . I don’t think we will get either of these things. 30 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: If you combined either of these scenarios , we might even get rid of Doncaster as I would imagine his job might become untenable. I think Doncaster has probably one of the safest jobs in Scottish football right now. 30 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Your advice to bend over and take it is totally off mark , the majority of Clubs all voted out of Self Interest , there is no reason why we shouldn’t fight this unfair relegation and which threatens our own existence as a football club. Yes there are. It’s counterproductive and it imposes hardship on other clubs. That they acted out of self interest isn’t a defence for being the suicide bombers of Scottish football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Raith Rovers with a cut & paste statement - probably written by the SPFL https://www.raithrovers.net/44373/club-statement-6.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Edge Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 I pinched this picture from the Hearts Kickback forum because it made me laugh, and we can always do with a laugh. It was posted in response to the Dundee United statement (which is proof of parallel universes, as clearly "sporting integrity" has a completely different meaning in their's) looking to round up cash from other clubs and supporters: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Looks like Cove are as stupid as RR - they are also preparing for the 1st August start of the Premiership season https://www.coverangersfc.com/news/club-statement-1/Teuchter muppets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 I'd like to think that playing this out with public statements is pointless at this stage, and that experienced legal people will not be influenced. I'm hoping that Thistle will resIst any temptation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Tell me this is a stupid idea, but how would it work with no promotion or relegation but points from 19/20 season carried over to 20/21 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Yes there are. It’s counterproductive and it imposes hardship on other clubs. That they acted out of self interest isn’t a defence for being the suicide bombers of Scottish football. Wow, hardship to other Clubs ! , 80% of the teams didn’t give a shit about our Club and the financial impact it was going to have with an unfair relegation in the middle of a pandemic, redundancies etc . Serious question, do you actually care and support our Club financially or are you just a keyboard warrior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 33 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Tell me this is a stupid idea, but how would it work with no promotion or relegation but points from 19/20 season carried over to 20/21 ? I think you've had better ideas to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaty FC Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 41 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Tell me this is a stupid idea, but how would it work with no promotion or relegation but points from 19/20 season carried over to 20/21 ? Stop that pigeon now DD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said: There is a difference between taking a decision that has this effect in April, giving a club 4-6 months to plan for their fate, and taking it in July, giving them potentially 3 weeks. There is a difference between saying: (1) it was reasonable for Hearts and Thistle to hold off lodging a formal dispute and (2) they were not entitled to raise a dispute at an earlier stage. I don’t think we will get either of these things. I think Doncaster has probably one of the safest jobs in Scottish football right now. Yes there are. It’s counterproductive and it imposes hardship on other clubs. That they acted out of self interest isn’t a defence for being the suicide bombers of Scottish football I'm confused. Are you suggesting PTFC and their fan base are the suicide bombers of Scottish football, or is in the member clubs who have essentially put a financial bomb under our club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaty FC Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 The futility or otherwise of action will become clearer on the outcome of arbitration. Sometimes i wish i wasn't seeing this a thistle fan as personally I remain dismayed as a football fan that the spfl board have created the mess through tunnel vision thinking from the outset followed by manipulation to protect their agenda. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said: Yes there are. It’s counterproductive and it imposes hardship on other clubs. That they acted out of self interest isn’t a defence for being the suicide bombers of Scottish football. What a ridiculous statement and quite offensive .....the spfl and other clubs have brought this on themselves .....actions have consequences and inaction also has consequences......they could have.... 1. not closed the season 2. voted for reconstruction 3. offered compensation 4. offered arbitration but no we were the sacrificial lambs to give everybody else what they wanted .....no thanks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balintore jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 I read each of the club's cut and paste statements. So Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove want to ensure the "sporting integrity of the SPFL". They had two chances to uphold ssome sporting integrity and failed to do so. Their votes to effectively relegate PTFC , who had a game in hand as they had to play in a SPFL competition, was a million miles away from upholding sporting integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) On 7/6/2020 at 7:55 PM, jlsarmy said: Serious question, do you actually care and support our Club financially or are you just a keyboard warrior. Yes I do, not that it’s any of your business. Edited July 10, 2020 by Woodstock Jag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Woodstock Jag said: That sounds rather like the indignant protest video of a kamikaze operation. When is Firhill being repurposed as a vexatious litigation training camp and how do you qualify for the more advanced training at Tynecastle? Suggestion.....stop being a d### Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Also let’s be clear... (1) The SPFL gave Hearts and Thistle the best part of two months to come up with a form of League reconstruction acceptable to the Clubs at large. They failed. Catastrophically. Like it wasn’t even close to the level of support needed. (2) The SPFL did offer arbitration. At the earliest opportunity it could. You can’t have arbitration until a complaint is lodged. They literally sought arbitration before Hearts and Thistle did, saying this was a better way to deal with the dispute than stropping to court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 What I find amusing is the suggestion that a proposal to pile as much of the pain on to as small a number of clubs as possible has some moral standing, because a lot of clubs voted for it. Anyway, good luck in their crowd funding. I'm sure they'll find that Scottish football is great at pulling together and helping each other out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Also let’s be clear... (1) The SPFL gave Hearts and Thistle the best part of two months to come up with a form of League reconstruction acceptable to the Clubs at large. They failed. Catastrophically. Like it wasn’t even close to the level of support needed. (2) The SPFL did offer arbitration. At the earliest opportunity it could. You can’t have arbitration until a complaint is lodged. They literally sought arbitration before Hearts and Thistle did, saying this was a better way to deal with the dispute than stropping to court. Point 1 is laughable. Sorry. Actually on reflection, point 2 isn't much better. I seem to remember the SPFL "drawing a line" under the matter Edited July 6, 2020 by allyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One t in Scotland Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Actually I was being unfair. Hearts are the suicide bomber, demanding not to be relegated despite being shite and waving an £8 million financial bomb vest because the big boys kicked them in the nuts Enjoyed reading your posts but that's a pretty tasteless analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Just now, allyo said: Point 1 is laughable. Sorry Was there or wasn’t there a working group on reconstruction quite literally chaired by Ann Budge between mid-April and mid-June? Was there or was there not an indicative vote of SPFL Clubs in which just half of the minimum votes necessary for reconstruction were secured? You might be laughing but it’s a sad truth. Reconstruction was given plenty airing and the bottom line is the Clubs simply didn’t want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, One t in Scotland said: Enjoyed reading your posts but that's a pretty tasteless analogy. I’m afraid I think the analogy, in terms of the sentiments expressed on here, is an apt one. It’s a “you’ve been shit to us so we’re going to destroy everything around us if we don’t get our way and we don’t care what collateral damage we cause”. Edited July 6, 2020 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Was there or wasn’t there a working group on reconstruction quite literally chaired by Ann Budge between mid-April and mid-June? Was there or was there not an indicative vote of SPFL Clubs in which just half of the minimum votes necessary for reconstruction were secured? You might be laughing but it’s a sad truth. Reconstruction was given plenty airing and the bottom line is the Clubs simply didn’t want it. Now you're making sense. Not the failure of Hearts and Thistle. The simple fact that the clubs were not willing to vote for anything other than pure self interest. Yet you suggest that we should take it on the chin to avoid hurting other clubs. Edited July 6, 2020 by allyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Just now, Woodstock Jag said: I’m afraid I think the analogy, in terms of the sentiments expressed on here, is an apt one. It’s a “you’ve been shit to us so we’re going to destroy everything around us if we don’t get our way and we don’t care what collateral damage we cause”. Utterly preposterous twaddle what’s being destroyed ? what collateral damage ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted July 6, 2020 Report Share Posted July 6, 2020 Just now, allyo said: Now you're making sense. Not the failure of Hearts and Thistle. The simple fact that the clubs were not willing to vote for anything other than pure self interest Hearts and Thistle were given ample opportunity to persuade their fellow clubs that any given reconstruction proposal was in the wider interests of the Clubs at large and of individual Clubs beyond their own. They failed to convince what, 26 of the Clubs? That’s total gutterball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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