Big Announcement

[partickthedog]

19 hours ago, partickthedog said:

Agreed. I checked this morning and will look again tomorrow.

Still no sign of the much vaunted title transfer. I checked a similar transfer of another registered property which I submitted to the Registers late on Friday afternoon. The pending application is showing clearly on the Registers, so not sure why the Firhill transfer should be any different.

I will be travelling tomorrow (Thursday) and not able to access the Registers easily. I will check in again on Friday.

[Woodstock Jag]

Tick.

Tock.

[elevenone]

Don’t understand why they would be so economical with the truth with something so checkable ?  

[East Kent Jag II]

44 minutes ago, elevenone said:

Don’t understand why they would be so economical with the truth with something so checkable ?  

Maybe SCOTLIS should look in their spam folder........

[sandy]

50 minutes ago, elevenone said:

Don’t understand why they would be so economical with the truth with something so checkable ?  

If our season ends on Friday, I’m sure 3BC will be ready to tell us more - as they promised to do.

Monday morning would be helpful. 

[Woodstock Jag]

It's a small thing, but if I'd taken 2.5 years to do something I originally said I'd do in a week, I would wait until I'd actually done it and this was a matter of public record before claiming I'd done it.

[Norgethistle]

Documents are probably resting under someone’s coffee cup as we speak 

[Woodstock Jag]

In case anyone else wants to keep track of this, here is a link to the addresses for the Firhill Road postcode, with a list of all the registered titles.

 

In really simple terms, the 2019 entry is the Main Stand and City End, when Three Black Cats bought it from Firhill Developments Ltd (PropCo). This has superseded a previous entry from 2009, when the Club sold those bits of land and the buildings on them to PropCo. The other two relate to when the stadium was all part of one title (before PropCo) and the Firhill basin (behind the stadium).

If the sale had gone through and completed, you would expect this to have a last purchase date within the last few days.

[partickthedog]

21 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

In case anyone else wants to keep track of this, here is a link to the addresses for the Firhill Road postcode, with a list of all the registered titles.

 

In really simple terms, the 2019 entry is the Main Stand and City End, when Three Black Cats bought it from Firhill Developments Ltd (PropCo). This has superseded a previous entry from 2009, when the Club sold those bits of land and the buildings on them to PropCo. The other two relate to when the stadium was all part of one title (before PropCo) and the Firhill basin (behind the stadium).

If the sale had gone through and completed, you would expect this to have a last purchase date within the last few days.

This is all helpful information. I always like to think in terms of Title Numbers. As above and in descending order, we  have

1) GLA205256 Main Stand, Bing etc in name of 3 Black Cats Limited

2) GLA162711 Rest of Firhill Stadium in name of Partick Thistle Football Club Limited

3) GLA172381 Forth & Clyde Canal, Firhill Basin and towpaths etc in name of British Waterways Board. Nothing to do with PTFC and just happens to be disclosed on the address search as it is the nearest postal address for a chunk of land and water with no postal address!

Still no sign of any application for registration of transfer of GLA205256 from 3BC to PTFC. Cannot think of any straightforward satisfactory explanation for this. It is basic conveyancing and risk management practice that (unless there is good reason to the contrary), you get your title registered as quickly as practicable to avoid any possibility, however remote, of any event occurring or deed or notice being recorded or registered which could in some way prejudice or affect the title. 

What is the "good reason" to the contrary? Why was the announcement made?

To give a simplistic analogy which no doubt is imperfect. You have the ball at your feet a yard from goal. Opposing defenders and goalkeeper are stranded on the halfway line. Rather than walk the ball into the net, you start waving to the crowd. Eventually the inevitable happens and a defender gets back to clear. The solution is simple. Put the ball into the net first and you can then wave to the crowd as much as you like.

I am not an expert in opaque trust and company structures. Could it be that I am barking up the wrong tree and instead of a straightforward transfer of registered title to GLA205256  to PTFC Ltd, there is some internal trust arrangement whereby 3BC continue to hold title, but on a different basis? That does not sit too easily with the "land transfer", "ownership" and "back in our hands" language of the statement. Some clarification from the club would be appreciated-or else just register the title!

[Woodstock Jag]

Tick.

Tock.

[partickthedog]

Tick.

Tock.

[Woodstock Jag]

Sevco registered their first title faster than this.

[a f kincaid]

For the benefit of those of us who have completely or partially lost the plot, could someone explain what it is we're waiting for? A week into the close season and we're already blessed with several groups/splinter groups/boards/committees/trusts - call them what you will - and votes. Even the occasional mention of lawyers. Just like old times!

[joekea]

What if the Big Announcement is a bit of a Damp Squib - what would the reaction be?

[eljaggo]

Another fan splinter group would emerge claiming ownership of damp squid.

[sandy]

18 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

For the benefit of those of us who have completely or partially lost the plot, could someone explain what it is we're waiting for? A week into the close season and we're already blessed with several groups/splinter groups/boards/committees/trusts - call them what you will - and votes. Even the occasional mention of lawyers. Just like old times!

Essentially for the Club Board / 3 Black Cats to announce how they will complete fan ownership. They said The Jags Foundation wasn’t a suitable body, but we dint know what their alternative plan is.

[Woodstock Jag]

Still no sign of an update to the Land Register.

[partickthedog]

On 5/10/2022 at 1:45 PM, a f kincaid said:

For the benefit of those of us who have completely or partially lost the plot, could someone explain what it is we're waiting for? A week into the close season and we're already blessed with several groups/splinter groups/boards/committees/trusts - call them what you will - and votes. Even the occasional mention of lawyers. Just like old times!

No doubt there are many things that we are waiting for, and Sandy has quite rightly highlighted one of these.

However, the particular "tick tock" that Woodstock Jag and I are referring to is the registration of title to the Firhill Main Stand/Bing. Over 10 days ago in a website announcement, a big play was made of this having been transferred by 3 Black Cats Limited to Partick Thistle Football Club Limited and therefore being back within the ownership and control of the Club.

Nevertheless that transfer has still not been made fully and finally effective by registration in the Land Register of Scotland. Title sits squarely in the name of 3 Black Cats Limited. It is difficult to think of a good reason why that should be. 

The clock ticks on....

[sandy]

There are so many layers to time @partickthedog. Indeed more than we could imagine from the Holocene back to the Palaeocene. 

Luckily geology isn’t an issue at Firhill. I think. Although I’d be hoping our outgoing Chairperson is able to leave a meaningful deposit. 

[Garscube Road End 2]

11 minutes ago, sandy said:

There are so many layers to time @partickthedog. Indeed more than we could imagine from the Holocene back to the Palaeocene. 

Luckily geology isn’t an issue at Firhill. I think. Although I’d be hoping our outgoing Chairperson is able to leave a meaningful deposit. 

Well, she certainly talks a lot of deposit!

[sandy]

8 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Well, she certainly talks a lot of deposit!

If you in any way understand my post, do please explain it to me @Garscube Road End 2. I’ve no idea what it means 

[Garscube Road End 2]

3 minutes ago, sandy said:

If you in any way understand my post, do please explain it to me @Garscube Road End 2. I’ve no idea what it means 

You go to the toilet? You leave a deposit!

[Dick Dastardly]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

There are so many layers to time @partickthedog. Indeed more than we could imagine from the Holocene back to the Palaeocene. 

Luckily geology isn’t an issue at Firhill. I think. Although I’d be hoping our outgoing Chairperson is able to leave a meaningful deposit. 

Are you sure that geology isn’t an issue at Firhill. The pitch drainage issues could well be down to geological issues.

[Woodstock Jag]

In the interests of full transparency, I contacted Gerry Britton last night to get clarity on four questions:

(a) whether the title had been registered yet, and if so when

(b) whether the Club paid any consideration and if so how much

(c) whether the land is to be held by PTFC Ltd or by another entity

(d) whether the title is free from any charges (i.e. secured debt)

His swift answers were:

(a) 29 April 2023 (I assume this was a typo and he meant 2022!)

(b) that nil consideration was paid

(c) that the land is to be held by PTFC Ltd

(d) that the title is and will be free from any secured debt.

It therefore seems as though this is a delay at the Land Register’s end, which is fair enough.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Woodstock Jag

[partickthedog]

4 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

In the interests of full transparency, I contacted Gerry Britton last night to get clarity on four questions:

(a) whether the title had been registered yet, and if so when

(b) whether the Club paid any consideration and if so how much

(c) whether the land is to be held by PTFC Ltd or by another entity

(d) whether the title is free from any charges (i.e. secured debt)

His swift answers were:

(a) 29 April 2023 (I assume this was a typo and he meant 2022!)

(b) that nil consideration was paid

(c) that the land is to be held by PTFC Ltd

(d) that the title is and will be free from any secured debt.

It therefore seems as though this is a delay at the Land Register’s end, which is fair enough.

Hi Mr Woodstock Jag, just catching up after a few hours off the forum.

Well done for going to the horse's mouth and getting such good information.

I am still puzzled, as a delay (especially of this duration) in showing that an application has been made goes against all my experience of the Land Register of Scotland. I accept that there are often huge delays in processing applications, but not usually in acknowledging that they have been made in the first place. I have just checked my own recent applications and all of them are showing up on SCOTLIS, including a couple I submitted to the Registers on Monday of this week.

I don't suppose your communication with  Gerry could stretch as far as asking him to scan across a copy of the official Registers' acknowledgment of receipt of the Disposition transferring title for registration under Title Number GLA205256!?

It so happens that I have the occasional online catch up meeting with one of the staff members at the Registers about specific issues relating to registrations of church properties which have their own peculiar complications! I see that I have such a meeting scheduled for a week today, so if the confirmation of registration has not shown up by then, without disclosing the particular property involved, I will try and gain some understanding of the reasons why there could be such a lengthy delay in an application showing up.