Lenziejag Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 10 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Why can you not admit that there is an advantage for a football club to be full time over part time ? If there wasn’t then nobody would. I guess that our current situation depends on how much responsibility you think McCall should take for our relegation (in my opinion the majority). If it wasn’t for that, this would be his second full season and we would not be at the financial disadvantage to the other clubs. In the championship, the only advantage I can see, is that for clubs that really have aspirations to play in the premiership, being full time should make it an easier step up than changing the whole set up. Obviously, McCall had some responsibility for us being in the position we were when the leagues were called, but he had 8 games or something to get us out of that position. Kind of similar to now, when again you have written him off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 To still be third is exceeding my expectations. But personally I don’t think McCall has what it takes to get us up and stay up. He is a decent enough Championship manager tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, sandy said: I don’t think McCall has what it takes to get us up and stay up. He is a decent enough Championship manager tho. Then I suppose Arbroath & ICT are in that same boat. So it's still game on. As it stands I think St Johnstone would keep their place in the top tier. Altho' Dundee managed it last season despite only accruing 45 points in the Championship. As big a challenge that promotion is, staying up would I believe be even more of a challenge. Into the bargain by most accounts Dundee have spent the sort of money we couldn't and wouldn't try to match. Edited March 14, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Then I suppose Arbroath & ICT are in that same boat. So it's still game on. As it stands I think St Johnstone would keep their place in the top tier. Altho' Dundee managed it last season despite only accruing 45 points in the Championship. As big a challenge that promotion is, staying up would I believe be even more of a challenge. Into the bargain by most accounts Dundee have spent the sort of money we couldn't and wouldn't try to match. Agree its a bigger challenge, but better to be up if we can for obvious financial reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 3 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Then I suppose Arbroath & ICT are in that same boat. So it's still game on. As it stands I think St Johnstone would keep their place in the top tier. Altho' Dundee managed it last season despite only accruing 45 points in the Championship. As big a challenge that promotion is, staying up would I believe be even more of a challenge. Into the bargain by most accounts Dundee have spent the sort of money we couldn't and wouldn't try to match. Are you sure, doesn't sound like something Dundee would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted March 14, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 9 hours ago, sandy said: To still be third is exceeding my expectations. But personally I don’t think McCall has what it takes to get us up and stay up. He is a decent enough Championship manager tho. This got me thinking about who has gotten their team promoted from the Championship in recent years. Since we did it in 12/13 these are the guys (I think): Paul Hartley, Alex Neil, Robbie Neilson (Hearts x 2 and Dundee Utd), Mark Warburton, Neil Lennon, Jack Ross, David Hopkin, Stuart Kettlewell & James McPake. Currently 4 out of work - Ross, Hopkin, Kettlewell and McPake and I think Ross believes he is better than the Championship so potentially 3 to choose from if McCall left and we were going for the "have actually done it" option. To quote my friend GRE2 all of them "leave me cold". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Fawlty Towers said: This got me thinking about who has gotten their team promoted from the Championship in recent years. Since we did it in 12/13 these are the guys (I think): Paul Hartley, Alex Neil, Robbie Neilson (Hearts x 2 and Dundee Utd), Mark Warburton, Neil Lennon, Jack Ross, David Hopkin, Stuart Kettlewell & James McPake. Currently 4 out of work - Ross, Hopkin, Kettlewell and McPake and I think Ross believes he is better than the Championship so potentially 3 to choose from if McCall left and we were going for the "have actually done it" option. To quote my friend GRE2 all of them "leave me cold". I definitely agree about some of those names leaving me cold. None of them would be better than McCall. We are stuck with jobby for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted March 14, 2022 Report Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: I definitely agree about some of those names leaving me cold. None of them would be better than McCall. We are stuck with jobby for now. I’d take Jack Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 A good topic as its always good to stop the clock and take stock of any situation. As usual a lot of interesting points being made some reflecting a half empty view others a half full. Although I am prepared to be critical of some things our manager does or doesn't do he has nevertheless got my full support. There is no doubt in my mind that in a football sense the club is in a better position than it was compared with the last 18 months under Archibald and Caldwell's entire period as our manager. I am not familiar with our financial position but the two main detrimental issues were the distribution of the funds from the Scottish Govt and the pitch sharing arrangement with Queens Park. The former left us £350k adrift of other FT clubs and the latter with a playing surface that fails to compliment the way the manager wants to play football. However as a football team I think we are doing well and I can see progress. I won't repeat all the points already made but if we can finish second I think we have a reasonable chance of promotion. If we finish lower then I doubt we will be promoted. In terms of the balance of the team I give the manager the benefit of the doubt in that I am sure he knows were he needs new players and what type of players and I am sure he has tried to address this. He does though have to work with the funds he has which are potentially significantly less than he would have had due to the unfair and in our case the malicious decision to distribute the support fund already mentioned. In closing I don't think it's news to say that in the past 4/5 weeks we haven't been playing well, at least not for 90 minutes, I think this has added to the normal frustration levels we as Jags fans suffer and I think may have influenced some of the negative opinions on this threadwe need therefore to keep focused on the big picture and not let the bumps get out of perspective. After all, we are thistle. . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 On 3/13/2022 at 10:57 PM, dl1971 said: No one was to blame because the circumstances were unprecedented. I would think any fair minded objective person would see that, irrespective of what team was bottom at that juncture and what team they support. Why we are returning to that subject ( which only raises its head following a bad result ) is beyond me. In my opinion there is a bitterness towards mccall that is unwarranted and droning on about it is simply tiresome. Why not look on the positives for a change, concentrate on the future, rather than drowning in whataboutery? I'll ask you a question. Has the team exceeded your expectations this season or not? Or did you expect automatic promotion ? Being bottom of the league is not unprecedented. God knows we have been there often enough over the years. Someone is to blame for that and McCall should take a large share. Has the team exceeded your expectations this season or not? - That is a very loaded question. If you completely ignore how we got there, then as a newly promoted side, I was expecting us to be in or around the playoffs, so I suppose that is roughly where we are. Had we not been relegated (IMO McCall is culpable) then I would have expected us to be much closer to an automatic promotion than we are. Also, one of my expectations would have been to be not TOTALLY reliant on one player for any attacking threat. Sneddon, Holt, Mayo, Akinola, Foster and McKenna have done their bit at the other end, but when Tiffoney is missing, we are lucky to score 0 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Being bottom of the league is not unprecedented. God knows we have been there often enough over the years. Someone is to blame for that and McCall should take a large share. Has the team exceeded your expectations this season or not? - That is a very loaded question. If you completely ignore how we got there, then as a newly promoted side, I was expecting us to be in or around the playoffs, so I suppose that is roughly where we are. Had we not been relegated (IMO McCall is culpable) then I would have expected us to be much closer to an automatic promotion than we are. Also, one of my expectations would have been to be not TOTALLY reliant on one player for any attacking threat. Sneddon, Holt, Mayo, Akinola, Foster and McKenna have done their bit at the other end, but when Tiffoney is missing, we are lucky to score 0 ! The circumstances how we ended up bottom were unprecedented. Unless you view a worldwide pandemic as foreseeable. Once again to say mccall is culpable defies logic. However its good to see you acknowledge that your expectation of the play offs is very much in sight. Why not celebrate you were smart enough to predict it? God forbid we get promoted and your expectations are exceeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Being bottom of the league is not unprecedented. God knows we have been there often enough over the years. Someone is to blame for that and McCall should take a large share. Has the team exceeded your expectations this season or not? - That is a very loaded question. If you completely ignore how we got there, then as a newly promoted side, I was expecting us to be in or around the playoffs, so I suppose that is roughly where we are. Had we not been relegated (IMO McCall is culpable) then I would have expected us to be much closer to an automatic promotion than we are. Also, one of my expectations would have been to be not TOTALLY reliant on one player for any attacking threat. Sneddon, Holt, Mayo, Akinola, Foster and McKenna have done their bit at the other end, but when Tiffoney is missing, we are lucky to score 0 ! Jings - you’re objecting to a loaded question! As a newly promoted team you expected to be in the playoffs? Why exactly ? What inside knowledge of PTFC compared to the other championship clubs do you have that can lead you to that conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 25 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Jings - you’re objecting to a loaded question! As a newly promoted team you expected to be in the playoffs? Why exactly ? What inside knowledge of PTFC compared to the other championship clubs do you have that can lead you to that conclusion. Lack of quality in the other teams. Right from the start the standard in this league looked very poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 31 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Lack of quality in the other teams. Right from the start the standard in this league looked very poor But you don’t think we have enough quality either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 20 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: But you don’t think we have enough quality either. No. I think we have players who have underperformed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 8 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: No. I think we have players who have underperformed And underperforming players are the managers fault ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 12 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: And underperforming players are the managers fault ? Playing them out of position certainly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 14 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Playing them out of position certainly is. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 3 hours ago, dl1971 said: The circumstances how we ended up bottom were unprecedented. Unless you view a worldwide pandemic as foreseeable. Once again to say mccall is culpable defies logic. However its good to see you acknowledge that your expectation of the play offs is very much in sight. Why not celebrate you were smart enough to predict it? God forbid we get promoted and your expectations are exceeded. Of course McCall is culpable. We weren't bottom when we arrived in January window. His action took us there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said: Of course McCall is culpable. We weren't bottom when we arrived in January window. His action took us there. Thankfully the vast majority of the thistle fan base take the view that our relegation was extremely unlucky, if not downright unfair. Those who are badged are culpable in any walk of life usually perform a deliberate act that they have knowledge off. As I've said before playing the blame card in the circumstances we found ourselves in serves absolutely no purpose. Such apparent bitterness I don't understand and I sincerely hope there is lots of humble pie on its way. Plenty was served last seasons when we won the league. Second helpings anyone? Edited March 16, 2022 by dl1971 Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Thankfully the vast majority of the thistle fan base take the view that our relegation was extremely unlucky, if not downright unfair. Those who are badged are culpable in any walk of life usually perform a deliberate act that they have knowledge off. As I've said before playing the blame card in the circumstances we found ourselves in serves absolutely no purpose. Such apparent bitterness I don't understand and I sincerely hope there is lots of humble pie on its way. Plenty was served last seasons when we won the league. Second helpings anyone? Thistle we’re not relegated by the unfair vote. The team bottom of the Championship were. There is a big difference which even you must see. McCall is culpable for us being bottom side at the time of the vote. That was avoidable, especially as we were not bottom when he went into the New Year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Thistle we’re not relegated by the unfair vote. The team bottom of the Championship were. There is a big difference which even you must see. McCall is culpable for us being bottom side at the time of the vote. That was avoidable, especially as we were not bottom when he went into the New Year. No I don't see. Have I woken up in a parallel universe where there was no vote taken to relegate us ( with a game in hand and 2 points behind QOS ). Are you saying we were relegated fairly? If so you must be the only PTFC fan on planet earth who believes that. For the record a whole season is 36 games so its reasonable to assume those games are played. Keep digging DD as each post just makes you look even more bitter. It simply serves no purpose. Let it go and maybe just maybe the team and mcall will put a smile on your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End 2 Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 28 minutes ago, dl1971 said: No I don't see. Have I woken up in a parallel universe where there was no vote taken to relegate us ( with a game in hand and 2 points behind QOS ). Are you saying we were relegated fairly? If so you must be the only PTFC fan on planet earth who believes that. For the record a whole season is 36 games so its reasonable to assume those games are played. Keep digging DD as each post just makes you look even more bitter. It simply serves no purpose. Let it go and maybe just maybe the team and mcall will put a smile on your face. Whilst the relegation was hard to take in the circumstances, the fact is that after a vote was taken the outcome was decided and we were bottom. There was no other way of ending the season. The fact is we were NOT bottom before the January transfer window. McCall's dealings in that market got us spiralling to the bottom of the league and we were relegated. Would have bleated how unfair it all was if we had been 9th and stayed in the championship? McCall is culpable for putting us down. A football club is judged on its performances on the pitch and the consequences of that is there for all to see. McCall was tha manager who took us down, put us in financial peril and subsequently put us at a disadvantage financially this season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted March 16, 2022 Report Share Posted March 16, 2022 Relegation was shit but that promotion win out of nowhere was amazing. What a rush. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted March 17, 2022 Report Share Posted March 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: Thistle we’re not relegated by the unfair vote. The team bottom of the Championship were. There is a big difference which even you must see. McCall is culpable for us being bottom side at the time of the vote. That was avoidable, especially as we were not bottom when he went into the New Year. Every season manager after manager, at some point during the season, said it only matters where we are in May. McCall didn’t get to May. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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