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Norgethistle

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37 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Thanks for this.
A couple of points:

a) You say TJF and 3BCs/PTFC board haven’t met yet, but that specific people have been chosen from TJF for that first meeting. Speaking personally, I find it slightly disappointing a meeting hasn’t happened yet. But, we are where we are. Has  a date been set for that? Have dates been set for subsequent meetings? 

b) You mentioned the subject of ‘confidentiality.’ I can see that this will be of importance to those on 3BCs/PTFC board, but TJF has a membership of a lot of people and there needs to be a balance between what might not necessarily be useful or important  for Thistle supporters to know and what they need to be told, as the leadership has to be answerable to its members. How do you/TJF see that ‘balance’ being struck?

TJF now have a board elected by the membership. They have been in place for a couple of weeks. Remember, they are volunteers and working on this in their spare time. Already they have set up a negotiating committee. The negotiations will be delicate. We need to give them time to establish trust and move forwards. TBC will probably be spooked by a running commentary being published. We must have faith in those elected and allow them space do their jobs.

I, personally, have confidence now that TJF will keep us informed of the facts when appropriate.

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Thanks BowenBoys. I don't want to be cagey about this, but there's a proper chronology we need to follow here and as you say we are keen to build a strong position of trust with 3BC early on.

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7 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

As I've already said, we will update members as fully and as frequently as confidentiality allows.

It would not be appropriate to play out a blow-by-blow account of negotiations in the public domain.

When there is something substantive to report we will report it.

Patience, kemosabe!

I never asked for a ‘blow -by -blow account of negotiations’ and I don’t believe I am being impatient by asking legitimate questions about what is happening, when it’s happening and ‘confidentiality’ on this issue. Most supporters are surely hoping for much more transparency around this matter which up to now, has been fairly opaque. The supporters  need to surely know what is being agreed in their name and the  implications of this. I believe any agreement likely to be made by the TJF leadership with 3BCs/PTFC board needs to be laid in front of supporters for their approval, before it can be finally ‘agreed.’ Can you at least reassure on that?

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3 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

I never asked for a ‘blow -by -blow account of negotiations’ and I don’t believe I am being impatient by asking legitimate questions about what is happening, when it’s happening and ‘confidentiality’ on this issue.

I'm not saying that your questions aren't legitimate; I'm just trying to explain why I'm not in a position to answer them immediately and here on this forum.

3 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Most supporters are surely hoping for much more transparency around this matter which up to now, has been fairly opaque.

And you'll get that, when there is something to report!

3 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

The supporters  need to surely know what is being agreed in their name and the  implications of this.

Of course they do. But our negotiations sub-team has not yet met with 3BC. So there is nothing "agreed" to report!

3 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

I believe any agreement likely to be made by the TJF leadership with 3BCs/PTFC board needs to be laid in front of supporters for their approval, before it can be finally ‘agreed.’ Can you at least reassure on that?

Of course it would. It's completely inconceivable that the Foundation would take ownership of the Club without first putting the matter to its members.

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4 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I'm not saying that your questions aren't legitimate; I'm just trying to explain why I'm not in a position to answer them immediately and here on this forum.

And you'll get that, when there is something to report!

Of course they do. But our negotiations sub-team has not yet met with 3BC. So there is nothing "agreed" to report!

Of course it would. It's completely inconceivable that the Foundation would take ownership of the Club without first putting the matter to its members.

Thank you.

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From the outside, it seems to me that there's a different between confidentiality and trying to run a negotiation of this nature in a responsible and professional manner. 

It can be frustrating from the sidelines,  and it's not helped by a history of poor communication, but it seems to be too early to judge the new JTF board either way.

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46 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

From the outside, it seems to me that there's a different between confidentiality and trying to run a negotiation of this nature in a responsible and professional manner. 

It can be frustrating from the sidelines,  and it's not helped by a history of poor communication, but it seems to be too early to judge the new JTF board either way.

I am not judging the new leadership of TJF, because to date I have nothing on which to judge them. However, the last communication from 3BCs/PTFC board (May ‘22) said they wanted to see the transfer of shares to supporters “before the start of the new season.” Unless, they are now saying something different or eventually do, that is the time-frame. And, as you yourself say, “ a history of poor communication” and I would add, an announcement and pronouncement on 09/04/22 from 3BCs/PTFC that was shocking to many Thistle fans (incl. me) has never been properly explained. As I said above I (personally) am looking for better communication in every way and greater transparency within this whole process from all sides. I believe that to be a reasonable expectation, and one that is crucial to a possible better outcome.

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Indeed. I don't disagree at all.  The Foundation can only speak for itself.  Greame has said that they hope to meet with TBC soon, and we must hope that there is something positive to come from that.

I'm not necessarily expecting an in depth update from that meeting, even if progress is made though. I think that we either trust the new TJF board to get on with it and to communicate when there is something useful to communicate, or we don't.

It's also important to be clear that TJF can't operate in vacuum. TBC need to be willing to engage. I don't know enough of the detail to comment, but the TBC public statements so far have been pretty poor, and reflect badly on those making them.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. One thing that I do know for certain, however: a number of the TJF board members are respectable and experienced professionals. It's difficult to understand what TBC are looking for if they aren't viewed as being capable of acting as the custodians of the shareholding.

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16 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

Indeed. I don't disagree at all.  The Foundation can only speak for itself.  Greame has said that they hope to meet with TBC soon, and we must hope that there is something positive to come from that.

I'm not necessarily expecting an in depth update from that meeting, even if progress is made though. I think that we either trust the new TJF board to get on with it and to communicate when there is something useful to communicate, or we don't.

It's also important to be clear that TJF can't operate in vacuum. TBC need to be willing to engage. I don't know enough of the detail to comment, but the TBC public statements so far have been pretty poor, and reflect badly on those making them.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. One thing that I do know for certain, however: a number of the TJF board members are respectable and experienced professionals. It's difficult to understand what TBC are looking for if they aren't viewed as being capable of acting as the custodians of the shareholding.

One ‘change’ has been made ie the replacement of an unelected TJF leadership with an elected one. The other ‘change’ that requires to be made revolves around what you have described in your third paragraph and final sentence in your fourth. I suppose THAT second change is what Thistle fans are most concerned about, for it is vital to a successful conclusion in this process.

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I think as Graeme and others say, delays in share transfer are outwith their control. I take the apparent TJF silence , after a wheen of communication during the election campaign, as a sign of them working hard to see if they can get the cats to release the mice. 

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2 minutes ago, sandy said:

I think as Graeme and others say, delays in share transfer are outwith their control. I take the apparent TJF silence , after a wheen of communication during the election campaign, as a sign of them working hard to see if they can get the cats to release the mice. 

Well, we all know who the ‘cats’ are but did you have any particular ‘mice’ in mind?!!

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13 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

Well, we all know who the ‘cats’ are but did you have any particular ‘mice’ in mind?!!

The kind of mice that share.

Btw I was a huge fan of Tom & Jerry when young 

Edited by sandy

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18 hours ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

I am not judging the new leadership of TJF, because to date I have nothing on which to judge them. However, the last communication from 3BCs/PTFC board (May ‘22) said they wanted to see the transfer of shares to supporters “before the start of the new season.” Unless, they are now saying something different or eventually do, that is the time-frame. And, as you yourself say, “ a history of poor communication” and I would add, an announcement and pronouncement on 09/04/22 from 3BCs/PTFC that was shocking to many Thistle fans (incl. me) has never been properly explained. As I said above I (personally) am looking for better communication in every way and greater transparency within this whole process from all sides. I believe that to be a reasonable expectation, and one that is crucial to a possible better outcome.

The new board has been in place 18 days today, that timescale has had an extended bank holiday and 3 weekends in that time, of which we’ve been meeting up over weekends, late at night and we are all communicating daily as a full board or as sub-groups. 
We have various wheels turning at the moment between the full board and sub-groups, from growing membership, sorting legally required documentation, opportunities to increase funding, increasing social media content, looking at fan engagement, plus of course the negotiation side. 
Updates are coming on various elements of the Foundation,  but I can assure you the 8 board members i am working with are putting a huge amount of effort and personal time into ensuring what is done is done  correctly and diligently. 

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28 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

The new board has been in place 18 days today, that timescale has had an extended bank holiday and 3 weekends in that time, of which we’ve been meeting up over weekends, late at night and we are all communicating daily as a full board or as sub-groups. 
We have various wheels turning at the moment between the full board and sub-groups, from growing membership, sorting legally required documentation, opportunities to increase funding, increasing social media content, looking at fan engagement, plus of course the negotiation side. 
Updates are coming on various elements of the Foundation,  but I can assure you the 8 board members i am working with are putting a huge amount of effort and personal time into ensuring what is done is done  correctly and diligently. 

You are assuming I am criticising the TJF board, but as they say ‘it takes two to tango.’ Rather, I remain sceptical about 3BCs and the PTFC board! There have been no conciliatory words aired publicly from them so far, and indeed, when they made their statement on 09/04/22 it seemed pretty final. Maybe they’ve mellowed since then and are prepared to at least hear what the new TJF board has to say. They’ve not made any statement on those lines which makes me wonder why, if they ARE prepared to change their original stance, wouldn’t it go down better with supporters if they did say something like this. After all, they could revert back to the 09/04/22 position easily later if they wanted. We have been told lines of communication are opening and things are more positive. Yet, the reasoning for this appears so confidential nothing concrete can be uttered publicly on how this belief is now held.  If no dates have been arranged for a first meeting, or subsequent meetings -which is a point I raised above and wasn’t answered-then that equally says something about 3BCs/PTFC board. The new season is not far away and the players are returning for pre-season training. Hopefully, we won’t be told by the PTFC board, “We must concentrate on the new season now” or something of the sort. I understand the need to ‘tread carefully’, not to upset them prematurely etc, etc, (though they didn’t bother about upsetting TJF, supporters and it’s then leadership) but the bottom line is ‘Are the shares going to eventually be given to TJF’ on behalf of ALL Thistle supporters?’ There may be ‘many roads to reach Rome’ (as the saying goes) but that is the ultimate ‘destination’. All the other things you mention matter, at the moment, but if 3BCs/PTFC don’t change their original line, everything else falls. 

Edited by denismcquadeno.eleven

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24 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

You are assuming I am criticising the TJF board, but as they say ‘it takes two to tango.’ Rather, I remain sceptical about 3BCs and the PTFC board! There have been no conciliatory words aired publicly from them so far, and indeed, when they made their statement on 09/04/22 it seemed pretty final. Maybe they’ve mellowed since then and are prepared to at least hear what the new TJF board has to say. They’ve not made any statement on those lines which makes me wonder why, if they ARE prepared to change their original stance, wouldn’t it go down better with supporters if they did say something like this. After all, they could revert back to the 09/04/22 position easily later if they wanted. We have been told lines of communication are opening and things are more positive. Yet, the reasoning for this appears so confidential nothing concrete can be uttered publicly on how this belief is now held.  If no dates have been arranged for a first meeting, or subsequent meetings -which is a point I raised above and wasn’t answered-then that equally says something about 3BCs/PTFC board. The new season is not far away and the players are returning for pre-season training. Hopefully, we won’t be told by the PTFC board, “We must concentrate on the new season now” or something of the sort. I understand the need to ‘tread carefully’, not to upset them prematurely etc, etc, (though they didn’t bother about upsetting TJF, supporters and it’s then leadership) but the bottom line is ‘Are the shares going to eventually be given to TJF’ on behalf of ALL Thistle supporters?’ There may be ‘many roads to reach Rome’ (as the saying goes) but that is the ultimate ‘destination’. All the other things you mention matter, at the moment, but if 3BCs/PTFC don’t change their original line, everything else falls. 

I'm not  sure why you are posting this. I'm pretty sure that nobody on here can influence 3BC/PTFC board decisions. Ask Jacqui Low.

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17 minutes ago, BowenBoys said:

I'm not  sure why you are posting this. I'm pretty sure that nobody on here can influence 3BC/PTFC board decisions. Ask Jacqui Low.

If you read some of the previous posts, it should be clear.

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4 minutes ago, denismcquadeno.eleven said:

If you read some of the previous posts, it should be clear.

The ones about mice?

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1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

The new board has been in place 18 days today, that timescale has had an extended bank holiday and 3 weekends in that time, of which we’ve been meeting up over weekends, late at night and we are all communicating daily as a full board or as sub-groups. 
We have various wheels turning at the moment between the full board and sub-groups, from growing membership, sorting legally required documentation, opportunities to increase funding, increasing social media content, looking at fan engagement, plus of course the negotiation side. 
Updates are coming on various elements of the Foundation,  but I can assure you the 8 board members i am working with are putting a huge amount of effort and personal time into ensuring what is done is done  correctly and diligently. 

18 days in, this seems like the perfect update to me.  Thanks for this.

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On 6/11/2022 at 2:38 PM, Woodstock Jag said:

(b) that period has included a bank holiday weekend during which several people were on holiday (for example, I have been managing membership subscriptions and enquiries while literally on holiday in Egypt)

 

Do you intend to investigate the SPFL Pyramid while you are there?

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