MarciaBlaine Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 There was always a cracking ‘warts and all’ book to be written about the Jacqui Low/PTFC Trust/fan ownership saga. I like to think that somewhere out there is a grizzled journo looking forlornly at their just-finished manuscript and pouring themselves a large one… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 That statement from Alistair Creevy... jeez... Obviously two sides to every story so impossible to form any opinion on who's in the right or wrong. However it rings true in terms of the ridiculous behaviour those in executive positions are so often prone to... "It's just business...." 🤮 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 minute ago, fenski said: That statement from Alistair Creevy... jeez... Obviously two sides to every story so impossible to form any opinion on who's in the right or wrong. However it rings true in terms of the ridiculous behaviour those in executive positions are so often prone to... "It's just business...." 🤮 Yep. It’s not an argument against fan ownership. But it’s a pretty convincing argument against the petty squabbles of rich men. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 47 minutes ago, erty13 said: Reading the statement, from the former chairman it, does not feel like fan ownership. Change the model, no consultation Individuals having too much power. Yes … it could be any football board … you think fan ownership would be better than this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said: Worth noting that: (a) we have never had £2 million cash in the bank (b) redemption reduces the preference shareholding, increasing the fan owned shareholding back towards what it was before THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT INFO. Take a breath everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT INFO. Take a breath everyone. Well sort of …. I could position this as we sell a player for £2.25m or do a property deal …the investors take their £500k or £1m … so get all their money back , keep their 10% shareholding and veto …. In the meantime the fan ownership model is fundamentally changed lets be clear about what we are giving up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, Lambies Lost Doo said: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT INFO. Take a breath everyone. What decisions do they have a veto over ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 Just now, Lenziejag said: What decisions do they have a veto over ? Anything that requires a shareholder vote of 75% ( and anything else that might be in the agreement but has not been disclosed ) it’s significant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 The 75% vote is for huge things like move stadium or turn ourselves into an American Football team. Hypothetically huge but realistically not so for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 10 minutes ago, javeajag said: Well sort of …. I could position this as we sell a player for £2.25m or do a property deal …the investors take their £500k or £1m … so get all their money back , keep their 10% shareholding and veto …. In the meantime the fan ownership model is fundamentally changed lets be clear about what we are giving up No that’s nonsense. If the Club’s bank balance was over £2 million, redemption would only occur to the extent that this was the case. This would also reduce the number of preference shares still there, meaning that PTFC Trust’s effective voting shareholding rises from 67% (as would those of every other non preference shareholder). Getting their money back is mutually exclusive with keeping the preference shares. That’s how redemption works! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 9 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: No that’s nonsense. If the Club’s bank balance was over £2 million, redemption would only occur to the extent that this was the case. This would also reduce the number of preference shares still there, meaning that PTFC Trust’s effective voting shareholding rises from 67% (as would those of every other non preference shareholder). Getting their money back is mutually exclusive with keeping the preference shares. That’s how redemption works! That’s an interpretation … clearly they will manage that up their advantage why wouldn’t they ? So get some of your money bank and kept the trust shareholding at 74% …. Sweet by the way since your on the TJF board is this something deemed worthy of consultation with TJF members of not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 16 minutes ago, javeajag said: That’s an interpretation … clearly they will manage that up their advantage why wouldn’t they ? So get some of your money bank and kept the trust shareholding at 74% …. Sweet by the way since your on the TJF board is this something deemed worthy of consultation with TJF members of not ? Your last line....should read " consultation with me " as the overwhelming majority of thistle fans/TJF members accept the rationale given on when it is appropriate to consult or not. What next? You'll be demanding full disclosure on emails, what's app messages and recordings of all meetings. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Your last line....should read " consultation with me " as the overwhelming majority of thistle fans/TJF members accept the rationale given on when it is appropriate to consult or not. What next? You'll be demanding full disclosure on emails, what's app messages and recordings of all meetings. Can you prove to me the majority of thistle fans accept the rationale …..couple of facts maybe ? There is a simple way to,prove this let tjf consult with its members……then I’m happy. But let’s clarify you disagree with the club statement today that they acknowledge this should have been consulted with fans ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Can you prove to me the majority of thistle fans accept the rationale …..couple of facts maybe ? There is a simple way to,prove this let tjf consult with its members……then I’m happy. But let’s clarify you disagree with the club statement today that they acknowledge this should have been consulted with fans ? The club statement and indeed the TJF one I'm in broad agreement with. With regard to consultation on the removal of the chair, I see that as an internal matter, albeit I'm saddened on the background on why it occurred. On the investment issue it appears to be a no brainer to me that the Club need the 500k to stabilise the financial shambles the previous board left us. Therefore what is there to consult on ? What options did the club viablly have? I doubt there is a massive queue of investors out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 Just now, dl1971 said: The club statement and indeed the TJF one I'm in broad agreement with. With regard to consultation on the removal of the chair, I see that as an internal matter, albeit I'm saddened on the background on why it occurred. On the investment issue it appears to be a no brainer to me that the Club need the 500k to stabilise the financial shambles the previous board left us. Therefore what is there to consult on ? What options did the club viablly have? I doubt there is a massive queue of investors out there. Ok you might want to consult on .. 1 reducing fan ownership below 75% of total shareholding meaning we give up overall control 2 moving toward the German model of 51% fan ownership that’s new 3 selling 49% of the club to investors that seems pretty significant 4 giving 3 guys a veto on key decisions that’s new mind you consulting on big issues wasn’t in the TJF model of fan ownership was it ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 4 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: Worth noting that: (a) we have never had £2 million cash in the bank (b) redemption reduces the preference shareholding, increasing the fan owned shareholding back towards what it was before Here is one for you - and you dont need to answer - do you think we were a happier more united Club before we ever approached Colin Weir ? we were in the Premier - doing OK and I just feel its not really been a united Club since then ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 I was under the impression we were as united a club as I I've ever seen at the end of last season, because everyone's focus was on the football and the football was great. Happy days. Now we're in to a new season, the usual mixed bag of results the 1st quarter in the Championship throws up. Add in a bit of boardroom squabbling and debates about how fan ownership should work... And the sense of unity dissolves. The joys of social media.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, fenski said: I was under the impression we were as united a club as I I've ever seen at the end of last season, because everyone's focus was on the football and the football was great. Happy days. Now we're in to a new season, the usual mixed bag of results the 1st quarter in the Championship throws up. Add in a bit of boardroom squabbling and debates about how fan ownership should work... And the sense of unity dissolves. The joys of social media.... in fairness Social Media allows Fans to express opinions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 45 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Here is one for you - and you dont need to answer - do you think we were a happier more united Club before we ever approached Colin Weir ? we were in the Premier - doing OK and I just feel its not really been a united Club since then ? I don't think that's a fair question. Colin Weir, long standing shareholders looking to sell and move on, foreign interest, Jaqui Low are all outside TJF control. It all came to a head where there was no sugar daddy out there and we needed fans to step up and fill the void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted October 6, 2023 Report Share Posted October 6, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: in fairness Social Media allows Fans to express opinions Imo it's very much a double edged sword for football as it is for everything. Edited October 6, 2023 by fenski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 7, 2023 Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 8 hours ago, dl1971 said: The club statement and indeed the TJF one I'm in broad agreement with. With regard to consultation on the removal of the chair, I see that as an internal matter, albeit I'm saddened on the background on why it occurred. On the investment issue it appears to be a no brainer to me that the Club need the 500k to stabilise the financial shambles the previous board left us. Therefore what is there to consult on ? What options did the club viablly have? I doubt there is a massive queue of investors out there. Well, now getting into the realms of he said/ she said, but McCreevy said he had secured investment of £400k(no strings mentioned),which seems to have been rejected in favour of £500k with strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 7, 2023 Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: Well, now getting into the realms of he said/ she said, but McCreevy said he had secured investment of £400k(no strings mentioned),which seems to have been rejected in favour of £500k with strings. So let me get this correct - we took £500K from US Investors which had a fundamental impact on the Fan Ownership Model -and gave them a right of Veto over major Club decisions But rejected £400K with no strings attached in favour of the US Deal ? @Woodstock Jag were TJF involved in the decision to reject the £400K - surely if there were two deals on the table -we should be advised why one was preferred over the other ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Legend Blows Posted October 7, 2023 Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 23 hours ago, dl1971 said: Whatever happened was between the board members and the TJF were acting essentially as intermediaries ( read their statement ). I think you have made multiple statements about " holding off from TJF"....each one unsurprising. No problem. Won't hold off anymore and I'll make a commitment not to join. Sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted October 7, 2023 Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 21 hours ago, Derby Jag said: I welcome the investment and the communication TJF I do have concerns however regarding lack of consultation on this. We are told that this couldn't be done as "initial investment has needed to be done at pace, because of the well trailed cashflow challenges faced by the Club" Can TJF provide clarity on when this investment opportunity was brought to their intention and also what near term cashflow challenges we faced that wouldn't have allowed for any consultation. I would still like answers to these points. The £400k claim is also one I believe we need some communication around. It is highly unfortunate that we are mere months into this new situation and we are back to boardroom squabbles, back door deals and uncertainty. I want to, and am minded to support, this investment but I do think there is enough rumours and grey areas that we are owed more information. I also don't believe this is encroaching into the "fan run" v "fan owned" debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted October 7, 2023 Report Share Posted October 7, 2023 Is it just my imagination or ignorance that the directors causing "difficulties" are those who have not been elected by fans organisations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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