scottish cup draw

[Sivad]

Will VAR be in operation?

[elevenone]

13 minutes ago, Sivad said:

Will VAR be in operation?

hopefully not

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Will three weeks into January be enough time for Young Derek to bed in his compliments of Uncle Roy new intake?

[partickthedog]

3 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Will three weeks into January be enough time for Young Derek to bed in his compliments of Uncle Roy new intake?

One of our players has to be instructed to do a Jamie Hamill and "accidentally" take out Derrick Adams.

[exiledjag]

2 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

God I hate that club.

(The fans are always very nice)

I do as well.

Let's hope this tie is played on a level and fair playing field and that we avoid a certain referee.

[Auld Jag]

21 hours ago, Sivad said:

Will VAR be in operation?

I think it depends if it is on TV. If it is on tv VAR will be in operation if not i think the clubs can decide. Iirc Livingston against ICT last season did not have VAR because of the cost.

[Weebaw1]

13 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

I think it depends if it is on TV. If it is on tv VAR will be in operation if not i think the clubs can decide. Iirc Livingston against ICT last season did not have VAR because of the cost.

I’m not going if there’s var. it’s killing the game.

Thank God we don’t have it.

[Dick Dastardly]

32 minutes ago, Weebaw1 said:

I’m not going if there’s var. it’s killing the game.

Thank God we don’t have it.

Hope we have it at league games next year.

[Dick Dastardly]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:52 PM, Sivad said:

Will VAR be in operation?

I don't think so. According to this it is only to be used for the semi finals and final.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/video-assistant-referee-var-qa/#:~:text=The cinch Premiership welcomed the,finals played at Hampden Park.

[Weebaw1]

3 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

I’m not going if there’s var. it’s killing the game.

Thank God we don’t have it.

The abolition of replays is a bloody disgrace. We have the misfortune to have been drawn against a team close to the Arctic circle in mid January.

We should at least have the opportunity to bring them back here for a replay.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

34 minutes ago, Weebaw1 said:

The abolition of replays is a bloody disgrace. We have the misfortune to have been drawn against a team close to the Arctic circle in mid January.

We should at least have the opportunity to bring them back here for a replay.

Agree entirely. Replays are a major part of the appeal of the Scottish Cup. Also having the possibility of extra time can be a logistical nightmare for away fans travelling by public transport.

[laukat]

4 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

I’m not going if there’s var. it’s killing the game.

Thank God we don’t have it.

I don't think VAR is creating a problem, I think its exposing existing problems.

In England its exposing that the rules its getting used to assist the ref with are perhaps in need of an update. For example there are a lot of penalties given that a ref wouldn't normally give because the contact is very minimal and awarding a penalty seems overkill particularly when the attacker is moving away from goal. Similarly with handball where penalties are given when the defender isn't really stopping a goal or a chance developing. 

To my mind this can be better dealt with by making use of indirect free-kicks rather than penalties for some handballs and fouls but would require the rules to be updates. If we had these rules in play for our tie against County arguably the decision not to award a penalty for us and a penalty against us changes. Graham's handball was clearly not intentional nor stopping a goal so an indirect free-kick should have been the maximum penalty. The foul on Docherty is much more a penalty as there is a foul, he is moving towards goal so more likely to score.

The English experience has also shown that there needs to be better communication with fans when VAR is checking. Something like the rugby system where the replay is put on a large screen and you can hear what the referee is discussing with VAR. Also I think rugby allows the referee to ask for a check rather than only relying on VAR drawing something to his attention

In Scotland it has exposed different issues. The main one being how is it possible that VAR has increased the number of penalties awarded against every team bar Sevco? 

We should consider ourselves fortunate as one of I think only 2 teams in Scotland to have been awarded a penalty against Sevco whilst VAR has been in operation (I believe Morton and us had 1 each in league cup ties). However Sevco are still to concede a single penalty in the league. That defies logic and the reason behind it can only relate to who the refs and now VAR officials are.

The fact that VAR is getting discussed more than a team not conceding a penalty in nearly 2 seasons shows the technology is just an excuse similar to the old excuses of Sevco get more penalties because they attack more.

[AlgarveJag]

On 11/26/2023 at 8:44 PM, Lambies Lost Doo said:

God I hate that club.

(The fans are always very nice)

Had a couple of ten year olds in my face coming out of Dungwell ‘celebrating’ rather exuberantly.  They calmed down and reflected when I pointed out that we had a title and trophy to play for next/this season while the best they had to look forward to was a season avoiding relegation (again).

[Dick Dastardly]

2 hours ago, laukat said:

I don't think VAR is creating a problem, I think its exposing existing problems.

In England its exposing that the rules its getting used to assist the ref with are perhaps in need of an update. For example there are a lot of penalties given that a ref wouldn't normally give because the contact is very minimal and awarding a penalty seems overkill particularly when the attacker is moving away from goal. Similarly with handball where penalties are given when the defender isn't really stopping a goal or a chance developing. 

To my mind this can be better dealt with by making use of indirect free-kicks rather than penalties for some handballs and fouls but would require the rules to be updates. If we had these rules in play for our tie against County arguably the decision not to award a penalty for us and a penalty against us changes. Graham's handball was clearly not intentional nor stopping a goal so an indirect free-kick should have been the maximum penalty. The foul on Docherty is much more a penalty as there is a foul, he is moving towards goal so more likely to score.

The English experience has also shown that there needs to be better communication with fans when VAR is checking. Something like the rugby system where the replay is put on a large screen and you can hear what the referee is discussing with VAR. Also I think rugby allows the referee to ask for a check rather than only relying on VAR drawing something to his attention

In Scotland it has exposed different issues. The main one being how is it possible that VAR has increased the number of penalties awarded against every team bar Sevco? 

We should consider ourselves fortunate as one of I think only 2 teams in Scotland to have been awarded a penalty against Sevco whilst VAR has been in operation (I believe Morton and us had 1 each in league cup ties). However Sevco are still to concede a single penalty in the league. That defies logic and the reason behind it can only relate to who the refs and now VAR officials are.

The fact that VAR is getting discussed more than a team not conceding a penalty in nearly 2 seasons shows the technology is just an excuse similar to the old excuses of Sevco get more penalties because they attack more.

I also think that it is being used too often when it really isn't needed. If there was a system, like tennis or cricket, where a team captain would have a set number (2 per half) appeals and if they use them up, they don't get any more. It is supposed to be used when there is a clear error by the ref, not a toenail offside, so if the players don't think it is a clear error, then don't get VAR involved.

Edit: and to steal another one from rugby, only the captain is allowed to speak to the ref.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Dick Dastardly

[Auld Jag]

We could also have 10 minute sin bins for cynical fouls and dissent and only team captains allowed to talk to refs.

[fifexile]

6 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

We could also have 10 minute sin bins for cynical fouls and dissent and only team captains allowed to talk to refs.

I'd go further and make a yellow card 10 mins in the sin bin 2nd one would be a red like in rugby. Players would think twice about risking stupid bookings for kicking the ball away or dissent.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

9 hours ago, fifexile said:

I'd go further and make a yellow card 10 mins in the sin bin 2nd one would be a red like in rugby. Players would think twice about risking stupid bookings for kicking the ball away or dissent.

I'd like to think that players were fined by their club for needless bookings. I'd add daft tackles late in a game that's already effectively won or lost.

I've not thought it thru but I think offending teams might "park the bus" during sin bin time especially if they already hold a lead. You see it often enough when a team goes down to ten men. That in turn could make a game less of a spectacle.

Off on a tangent here but red card suspensions should well be altered. Why not make the one game suspension take place against the offended team? God knows we play the same club often enough. There must be cases where we see a player sent off against us (vice versa) and his suspension weakens his team playing against one of our league rivals. For instance if the fella gets sent off against us and his team is playing Raith the following week.  

[Dick Dastardly]

16 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

We could also have 10 minute sin bins for cynical fouls and dissent and only team captains allowed to talk to refs.

Ta-Dah .....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67549886

[laukat]

A 10 minutes sin bin will just mean the team that has the player sin binned will play for time for 10 minutes. 10 minutes worth of players rolling about and feigning injuries helps no one.

Only reason a 10 minute sin bin works in rubgy is because they stop the clock for medical treatment and other parts of their game. If we did that in football we would be playing 30 minutes of added time every game.

To my mind we need a different approach to suspensions. So as @lady-isobel-barnett says you miss the next game against the same opposition if given a straight red. If you get are red after 2 yellows its not an automatic suspension its just puts more points towards a suspension as per yellow cards currently. Equally the points threshold for suspension should be increased as yellow cards are currently thrown about like confetti.

I like the idea of the Captain being the only one able to approach the ref but not sure about the 10 minute Sin bin.  This could be enhanced by giving the captain the ability to ask for 2 reviews per game and they lose the reviews if the referee gets hassled by players that are not the Captain

 

[QXBoy]

1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Ta-Dah .....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67549886

As someone who has grown up with football since the 1950's my reaction to these proposals (and VAR) is -

BEAM ME UP SCOTTY!

[eljaggo]

VAR takes the pressure off refs to make good, tough decisions.  They can make "safe" decisions, knowing that someone else will carry the can.  VAR should be abandoned and refs told that their career will depend on the quality of their decisions.  In other words they should take full responsibilty for the job they were employed to do.

[a f kincaid]

More questions than answers! 

Is football about to be rid of yellow cards? If not, what sort of offence would merit a sin bin but not a yellow card? Some of the yellow cards that are issued are verging on the trivial as it is. Would a sin bin replace a yellow card for persistent fouling but not one specific foul? Can a player be sin-binned more than once in a match? Would a second sin bin mean a red and off? How would you sin bin a keeper? Sub keeper comes on for 10 minutes and then the sin binned keeper comes back on? Wouldn't be a player reduction punishment however so would a midfield player have to go into goals for the sin bin duration so that the team is reduced to 10?

I see the proposed colour of a sin bin card is orange. That will go down well in some quarters (not).