sandy Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, ChiThistle said: Why wait? I’d say get in there now. I like the idea about some kind of partnership with the Uni team. Did McGuigan not come to us from a Uni team? McGuigan and James Craigen both had university backgrounds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Also I’d just like to point out that we’ve had more discussion about women’s sanitary products (and their availability) this week than at any point in my time on the forum. That’s probably progress. At the risk of being crass, but in the interest of notoriety, I’d like to be the first to openly say the word…. Tampons. Thistle Archive Admin, please record this day for posterity. Thank you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 18 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: They already added 10% without investing in anything. Unbelievable - if anyone involved at PTFC or anyone associated with TJF is in agreement with this outlook - they should be gone What part of the whole point of the Club is to have as many Thistle Fans as we possibly can do you not get ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 7 minutes ago, ChiThistle said: Why wait? I’d say get in there now. I like the idea about some kind of partnership with the Uni team. Did McGuigan not come to us from a Uni team? McGuigan came through the university team at Edinburgh. To put a damper on it, we tried years ago to bring students and Freshers to Firhill and it failed pretty miserably. It's not a long term solution in any case. Students are only on campus around 25 weeks of the year and tend to return home when their 4 years are over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said: McGuigan came through the university team at Edinburgh. To put a damper on it, we tried years ago to bring students and Freshers to Firhill and it failed pretty miserably. It's not a long term solution in any case. Students are only on campus around 25 weeks of the year and tend to return home when their 4 years are over. That’s a fair point. I wasn’t sure if Glasgow Uni students stayed local for breaks and holidays. Still, I could see potential because there’s a continuing cycle of students. Maybe give international students free or discounted Jagzone/PPV so they can continue supporting after they graduate? (Edit to add: Just a year after they graduate) Ive pumped a decent amount of cash into Thistle despite not being remotely local. Building that bond is definitely possible. Edited January 16 by ChiThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 The more I read this read the more I think why anyone would put themselves forward for either TFJ, JT or the board. Pretty thankless task. I'm not sure how many on this forum are actually on one of these entities, but given the number of ideas circulating maybe they should be. I seem to sense a lack of gratitude for all those doing their best in trying circumstances. We should never forget that. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 19 minutes ago, dl1971 said: The more I read this read the more I think why anyone would put themselves forward for either TFJ, JT or the board. Pretty thankless task. I'm not sure how many on this forum are actually on one of these entities, but given the number of ideas circulating maybe they should be. I seem to sense a lack of gratitude for all those doing their best in trying circumstances. We should never forget that. The task of everyone who supports the club is to make us more successful and to do that we need to critically evaluate what we do well and what can be improved. given the Boards we have had in recent years the to do list is long but that’s an opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: The task of everyone who supports the club is to make us more successful and to do that we need to critically evaluate what we do well and what can be improved. given the Boards we have had in recent years the to do list is long but that’s an opportunity. I agree the list may be long. But these things take time with the best will in the world. I'll say it again, I'm grateful to TFJ in particular how they have undoubtedly improved things in a relatively shall period. Rome wasn't build and all that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) 38 minutes ago, dl1971 said: The more I read this read the more I think why anyone would put themselves forward for either TFJ, JT or the board. Pretty thankless task. I'm not sure how many on this forum are actually on one of these entities, but given the number of ideas circulating maybe they should be. I seem to sense a lack of gratitude for all those doing their best in trying circumstances. We should never forget that. I should stress that, despite my frustrations on here sometimes, it is a rewarding thing to represent 1650+ fellow Thistle fans. The key challenge is not placing all of the burden on a very small number of people, because otherwise, bluntly, they'll burn out. It's why I was delighted that we were able to bring Derek McLeish on board at the turn of the year after Sandy stepped back, because running a successful members' organisation at the heart of a fan ownership arrangement is difficult even in the most benign of environments. New energy and ideas to relieve the battle-weary is a good thing. TJF has had to deal with some absolutely extraordinary, bizarre, irrational and chaotic behaviour from other people in positions of power in the last 4 years. It has had to try to exert influence first from completely outside the tent and then from (underappreciated) minority positions inside of it. It's incredibly easy for people to criticise, or to insist from the outside that things are somehow "simple" when they almost never are. It would just be nice if those same people volunteered practical solutions to deliver things in ways that would be remotely acceptable to the key stakeholders involved, instead of just declaring that some outcomes would be desirable and providing absolutely nothing by way of a plan to deliver it. There will be some people that TJF, the PTFC Trust and the Club Board can never keep happy. They revel in having a grievance with zero responsibility. The challenge is to ensure that their negative energy doesn't get in the way of achieving positive things. Consistently, I find that the most vocal armchair critics give very limited to no consideration of who fills the void in organisations if the people already there leave. Or put another way, they should be careful what they wish for or they might get it. Edited January 16 by Woodstock Jag 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Is the club board on the PTFC site current? There have been so many ins and outs that I can’t keep track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 9 minutes ago, dl1971 said: I agree the list may be long. But these things take time with the best will in the world. I'll say it again, I'm grateful to TFJ in particular how they have undoubtedly improved things in a relatively shall period. Rome wasn't build and all that.... I’m a member of TJF indeed a very early one so I have nothing against them at all. the issue now is how to make everything in the club better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 6 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: It's incredibly easy for people to criticise, or to insist from the outside that things are somehow "simple" when they almost never are. It would just be nice if those same people volunteered practical solutions to deliver things in ways that would be remotely acceptable to the key stakeholders involved, instead of just declaring that some outcomes would be desirable and providing absolutely nothing by way of a plan to deliver it. I think I suggested a number of practical ideas ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think I suggested a number of practical ideas ! This wasn't aimed at you! A lot of the good ideas that have come out (for example in this thread) are fundamentally ones for the Football Club (and at that, ones that have logistical, practical and resource implications) rather than for TJF. But there are several examples on this thread of one individual in particular trying to blame TJF for things that fundamentally just aren't our responsibility, and which show a total disregard for the model of "fan owned, not fan run". Edited January 16 by Woodstock Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Unbelievable - if anyone involved at PTFC or anyone associated with TJF is in agreement with this outlook - they should be gone What part of the whole point of the Club is to have as many Thistle Fans as we possibly can do you not get ? You really are wound up about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 16 Author Report Share Posted January 16 Update from the club: https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/ptfc-agm-update/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeless Unbeliever Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) I think the conflation of TJF and the club board is lazy at best, and disingenuous at worst. On TJF firstly, I think people forget how bleak the outlook was little more than a year ago. The fact that TJF have got us to where we are today is nothing short of miraculous and they deserve a tremendous amount of credit for that. I say that as someone who was extremely skeptical about a group putting themselves up for election as a block, but it probably helped them to hit the ground and, in my view, they have delivered in spades. Regardless of your views on fan ownership, that is what Colin Weir wanted and TJF have brought us from a position where fan ownership was effectively going to be stymied indefinitely to a position where we have an entirely open and democratic structure, effective engagement and a massive income stream for the club. It gets overlooked how quickly they got people to rally behind TJF and the number of members they have managed to accumulate has been incredible in a short space of time (a greater % of home gates than the Foundation of Hearts which has been established a lot longer). I don't think people appreciate how bad the alternative could have been. The Club board are, relatively speaking, pretty fresh in the door, inherited a disaster and appear to have cut our underlying losses from c. £600K in 22/23 season to c. £150K in 23/24 season. I don't know (as I suspect most/all on here also don't) how much they've invested in hospitality facilities versus how much they've invested in "ordinary fan" facilities but I'd be willing to wager a year's TJF subscriptions that more money has gone into the fan facilities than hospitality facilities (even proportionate to their numbers/income per game). The simple fact is that maintaining a ground the size and age of Firhill to a basic standard is a considerable cost even before you look at improvements. It's also somewhat unfair to simultaneously demand that losses are reduced while also demanding that expenses are increased. Any board in Scottish football would love to increase gates by 10% overnight, but the quickest way to that is putting a good team on the park, which the board have done a pretty good job of facilitating given our summer losses. In the absence of informed opinion it's very easy to fill the void with accusations and supposition. Our journey since the previous board were ousted appears to be on a positive trajectory so it seems to me that they deserve the benefit of the doubt in continuing that. I do have concerns about the level of turnover in the boardroom but hopefully that will settle over the next 12 months. One point common to both the TJF board and the club board - generally speaking we appear to have people in these roles eminently qualified to hold them. Ours is a small fanbase and the options available relatively limited. David Beattie and Billy Allan aren't coming back to Firhill to serve on the board of a fan owned club. Be careful what you wish for and where you want to end up. Edited January 16 by Hopeless Unbeliever 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 3 hours ago, Lenziejag said: You really are wound up about this. What an utterly dismissive statement to make - we got 10% increase last year without “Investing Anything” so what your admitting is that a) Fan Growth has nothing to do with the Club Board -and there is no strategy or resource put behind it b) That you are justifying Investment & Resource in Hospitality because it gets a better return -than Growing the Fan Base ( with no actual numbers to support this theory ) Now Woodland Jag has argued strongly that the Board have some sort of plan to address Revenues -and put us in Breakeven. ( Ive argued the opposite ) Ive given him and TJF a hard time saying there propping up something thats not sustainable The complacency of the statement on Fan Growth -shows beyond any doubt that there is no plan on any level and a fundamental lack of understanding as to where the Club Revenues come from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: What an utterly dismissive statement to make - we got 10% increase last year without “Investing Anything” so what your admitting is that a) Fan Growth has nothing to do with the Club Board -and there is no strategy or resource put behind it b) That you are justifying Investment & Resource in Hospitality because it gets a better return -than Growing the Fan Base ( with no actual numbers to support this theory ) Now Woodland Jag has argued strongly that the Board have some sort of plan to address Revenues -and put us in Breakeven. ( Ive argued the opposite ) Ive given him and TJF a hard time saying there propping up something thats not sustainable The complacency of the statement on Fan Growth -shows beyond any doubt that there is no plan on any level and a fundamental lack of understanding as to where the Club Revenues come from I don’t see too much unreasonable with wanting a Club Board to understand club revenue sources and build a plan to maximize those. Two questions: 1) Is it unreasonable for the board to not have a super comprehensive plan on this yet given that it’s been in flux for some time? 2) Are you more or less confident in the current board than you were with the board that ran us into 300k losses? Or does it remain to be seen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 9 hours ago, sandy said: Agree with @elevenone and this. Students are geographically part of our fan constituency. We offer something different from the Old Firm. Free beer and crap music ought to do the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 11 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: What an utterly dismissive statement to make - we got 10% increase last year without “Investing Anything” so what your admitting is that a) Fan Growth has nothing to do with the Club Board -and there is no strategy or resource put behind it b) That you are justifying Investment & Resource in Hospitality because it gets a better return -than Growing the Fan Base ( with no actual numbers to support this theory ) Now Woodland Jag has argued strongly that the Board have some sort of plan to address Revenues -and put us in Breakeven. ( Ive argued the opposite ) Ive given him and TJF a hard time saying there propping up something thats not sustainable The complacency of the statement on Fan Growth -shows beyond any doubt that there is no plan on any level and a fundamental lack of understanding as to where the Club Revenues come from It was a flippant statement. But I am done with this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 42 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: It was a flippant statement. But I am done with this discussion. Thanks for your input its been revealing - but not surprising Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 11 hours ago, ChiThistle said: I don’t see too much unreasonable with wanting a Club Board to understand club revenue sources and build a plan to maximize those. Two questions: 1) Is it unreasonable for the board to not have a super comprehensive plan on this yet given that it’s been in flux for some time? 2) Are you more or less confident in the current board than you were with the board that ran us into 300k losses? Or does it remain to be seen? 1) The Board laid out its plan at the AGM - increase Hospitality - thats it - hence the questioning 2) We have averaged circa £300K loss over the last Two Seasons - we are forecasting a £150K loss for this Season - however the previous Seasons did not have a donation of £175K from TJF - so in like for like Comparison on actual Trading the losses are pretty much the same as previous - TJF cash is giving a false impression that things have improved as a business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 36 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: 1) The Board laid out its plan at the AGM - increase Hospitality - thats it - hence the questioning 2) We have averaged circa £300K loss over the last Two Seasons - we are forecasting a £150K loss for this Season - however the previous Seasons did not have a donation of £175K from TJF - so in like for like Comparison on actual Trading the losses are pretty much the same as previous - TJF cash is giving a false impression that things have improved as a business So you seem to be saying that if this was money put in by an individual shareholder it would be a good thing but because it is money put in by a collection of fan owners it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 33 minutes ago, scotty said: So you seem to be saying that if this was money put in by an individual shareholder it would be a good thing but because it is money put in by a collection of fan owners it is not. Im saying nothing of the sort To get a true picture comparing losses from previous Years in actual Trading Terms you have to remove TJF cash from the Calculation as its not generated by Trading and previous Board did not have this level of a Donation So in actual Business Trading we are still running at similar losses to previous Seasons of circa £300K TJF cash is giving a False Reading to the actual Financial Stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 “You’re not allowed to count reliable and repeatable six-figure income from the Club’s core customers! That’s cheating and doesn’t suit my argument and agenda!” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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