Player fund

[scotty]

https://ptfc.co.uk/fans/players-fund/

I've just contributed to this but it got me thinking.

The Jags Foundation are offering hospitality to members in January for less than a third of what it usually costs. Is this going to cost the club or is the Jags Foundation subsidising it? Couldn't the hospitality have been priced a bit higher with some going to the manager to strengthen the squad? Seems like we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back just yet.

Hospitality isn't my thing so I donated what I could have spent on it to the player fund.

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, scotty said:

https://ptfc.co.uk/fans/players-fund/

I've just contributed to this but it got me thinking.

The Jags Foundation are offering hospitality to members in January for less than a third of what it usually costs. Is this going to cost the club or is the Jags Foundation subsidising it? Couldn't the hospitality have been priced a bit higher with some going to the manager to strengthen the squad? Seems like we shouldn't be patting ourselves on the back just yet.

Hospitality isn't my thing so I donated what I could have spent on it to the player fund.

I think TJF have bought it at the regular price(or maybe a special price)and are offering it to TJF members at a reduced price as a thank you.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

56 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I think TJF have bought it at the regular price(or maybe a special price)and are offering it to TJF members at a reduced price as a thank you.

Yeah that's my understanding.

Feb v Arbroath would mean lower take up so it's a good idea.

[scotty]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

I think TJF have bought it at the regular price(or maybe a special price)and are offering it to TJF members at a reduced price as a thank you.

Matchday hospitality according to the Thistle web-site is £105+VAT pp. It just seems a big discount.

[Jordanhill Jag]

The Key Question is thus - we received £500K in “ investment” a few weeks ago - TJF are putting in circa £130k to the Club - we had record Season Ticket Sales and Match Attendances at Home Gamed are Healthy - so why are we having to Crowd Fund the January Transfer Window - where did the £500K Investment go ? Where is TJF cash going ?

yet again - fans to cough up - but no real answers on the finances

Shareholders are there to hold Boards to account - Crowdfunding the Transfer Window ? Seriously ?   

[Dick Dastardly]

And presumably the wage bill was reduced when McCall and Scally took up roles at Clyde

[scotty]

1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said:

And presumably the wage bill was reduced when McCall and Scally took up roles at Clyde

I'm sure they were off the payroll before then. Ian McCall went on Off the Ball a few weeks ago saying he could now speak out as he was no longer being paid by Thistle.

[Dick Dastardly]

3 minutes ago, scotty said:

I'm sure they were off the payroll before then. Ian McCall went on Off the Ball a few weeks ago saying he could now speak out as he was no longer being paid by Thistle.

Thanks. I thought it was gardening leave for 1 year unless he found another role. Either way, off the pay roll

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, scotty said:

Matchday hospitality according to the Thistle web-site is £105+VAT pp. It just seems a big discount.

I think TJF are paying the club more than the £30 they are charging the TJF members. How much more, I don’t know. However, let’s say they are paying the same as the discounted amount for the 2nd Jan game on itison, which is £87, I think.

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Key Question is thus - we received £500K in “ investment” a few weeks ago - TJF are putting in circa £130k to the Club - we had record Season Ticket Sales and Match Attendances at Home Gamed are Healthy - so why are we having to Crowd Fund the January Transfer Window - where did the £500K Investment go ? Where is TJF cash going ?

yet again - fans to cough up - but no real answers on the finances

Shareholders are there to hold Boards to account - Crowdfunding the Transfer Window ? Seriously ?   

You are a shareholder. You can ask the question at the AGM.

[dpj]

 

2 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

The Key Question is thus - we received £500K in “ investment” a few weeks ago - TJF are putting in circa £130k to the Club - we had record Season Ticket Sales and Match Attendances at Home Gamed are Healthy - so why are we having to Crowd Fund the January Transfer Window - where did the £500K Investment go ? Where is TJF cash going ?

yet again - fans to cough up - but no real answers on the finances

Shareholders are there to hold Boards to account - Crowdfunding the Transfer Window ? Seriously ?   

 

16 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

You are a shareholder. You can ask the question at the AGM.

I'm sure someone from TJF can answer much better than me. As far as I understand the £500k will be sitting in bank account intentionally not being spent so that there is never any future cashflow issues similar to earlier in year that would threaten clubs survival. Some of it will only be used in short term if there is a bill to be paid and money will then be replaced by prize/sponsor money etc shortly afterwards. The only other scenario I would suspect would be if a major repair was needed to stadium. Spending the money on team hoping to get promotion would not be the plan as that sort of short term thinking is what got us in to trouble last season.

[scotty]

47 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I think TJF are paying the club more than the £30 they are charging the TJF members. How much more, I don’t know. However, let’s say they are paying the same as the discounted amount for the 2nd Jan game on itison, which is £87, I think.

Even at that it's still a discount of £57 per person. As I said in my original post I don't do hospitality so have donated to the player fund but I think some cash could have gone to enhance the playing budget. I still think it's too soon in the fan ownership journey for such generosity.

[Lenziejag]

21 minutes ago, scotty said:

Even at that it's still a discount of £57 per person. As I said in my original post I don't do hospitality so have donated to the player fund but I think some cash could have gone to enhance the playing budget. I still think it's too soon in the fan ownership journey for such generosity.

Not quite following, Scotty. I am suggesting that TJF have paid the club £87 per person(speculation)and are charging £30 per person. I am also assuming that the £30 doesn’t include entry to the ground as I guess most TJF members will also be ST members-again speculation.

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, Lenziejag said:

You are a shareholder. You can ask the question at the AGM.

As has been pointed out ( at length ) by TJF - minor Shareholders have little or no say in any decisions to do with the Club - however I would be expecting Major Shareholders to be asking Questions ref Finances on an ongoing basis ( especially one that puts in a Six Figure Sum each Season )   

[scotty]

7 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Not quite following, Scotty. I am suggesting that TJF have paid the club £87 per person(speculation)and are charging £30 per person. I am also assuming that the £30 doesn’t include entry to the ground as I guess most TJF members will also be ST members-again speculation.

I'm not saying that the money is not going to the club, though as we don't know how much is made from hospitality after overheads it will be more speculation as to how much.  There is only a percentage of TJF members who will be able to benefit from this generous discount. I would be happier that any surplus THF have, went to the club rather than such a large amount going back to the members at this early stage.

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 hour ago, dpj said:

 

 

I'm sure someone from TJF can answer much better than me. As far as I understand the £500k will be sitting in bank account intentionally not being spent so that there is never any future cashflow issues similar to earlier in year that would threaten clubs survival. Some of it will only be used in short term if there is a bill to be paid and money will then be replaced by prize/sponsor money etc shortly afterwards. The only other scenario I would suspect would be if a major repair was needed to stadium. Spending the money on team hoping to get promotion would not be the plan as that sort of short term thinking is what got us in to trouble last season.

I honestly do not remember in any shape or form this being stated - I do seem to recall that there was mention that there was a Budget Shortfall - my question is therefore if the "investment " has been used to make up the Shortfall its not exactly an Investment - I Hope your correct that the £500K is Resting in our Account for a Rainy Day - however Im not convinced this is the case     

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Am I alone in thinking there's two completely different discussions going on in this thread?

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Yep!

[jaggy]

Yep. And as TJF contributes a substantial amount to the club I think this gesture to members who are fortunate enough to get the cheap hospitality is a great idea and doesn’t really detract from what they give to the club. 

[scotty]

8 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Am I alone in thinking there's two completely different discussions going on in this thread?

You sure it's not just both of your imaginations?

[dl1971]

Considering how much TJF members have put into the club over the last 2 years, its only right and proper that some of the money is "gifted" to those members. I fight it baffling that some could turn a positive into a negative, albeit it seems very much a minority view. 

[Woodstock Jag]

Several points here:

• Club is getting full value for the hospitality places
• The cost is being met partly from TJF's sale of tickets to members, and partly from TJF's accumulated funds (in much the same way as we've used excess funds to pay for other members draws and events)
• TJF will have contributed more than £150k to the Club this calendar year
• In those circumstances, it seemed only right to give something back to members and to acknowledge their efforts
• The way the hospitality event has been structured is designed to enable funds over and above those in the £10kpm pledge to hit the Club's coffers just before the January window
• January fixtures are ones the Club traditionally struggles to fill hospitality, so there is often a deadweight loss in empty seats at hospitality
• This arrangement ensures a fully sold-out Alan Rough Lounge at no risk to the Club
• This event was possible because TJF has been raising comfortably in excess of its budgeted commitment to the Football Club (and will still do so even with the new Youth Academy pledge)

There are also strategic justifications for an event like this, beyond the immediate economic benefit to the Club:

• Introducing hospitality to a new audience
• TJF is experimenting with variation to the hospitality itinerary and experience (so it's a commercial learning exercise for the Club)
• TJF has seen an increase in members and pledges since the event was launched (getting people to pledge more and for longer is critical to what we can promise the Club in future seasons)

The Club will maximise its revenue raising longer-term by having genuine options that appeal to lots of different people. If some people want to donate to the Players' Fund but not to TJF, that's completely fine and up to them.

Personally, I will be channelling my own resources wherever possible through TJF initiatives, because I think it's important to build the sustainability of the fan fundraising vehicle. The Players Fund helps Kris Doolan in January. Building a mass appeal TJF helps build a sustainable football club for generations. There is wider social value to building up a strong supporters' association, with connections into the wider community.

This isn't just an exercise in tipping as much money into the Club as possible. It's about building a set of institutions that makes income streams deliverable, reliable and repeatable. That's what protects the Club's future, and a vibrant supporters' association that regularly does things to value its members is a critical part of that.

 

[scotty]

Thanks for your response WJ. Especially the second part. If this event has increased the membership of THF, then it probably has been worth it.

[Jordanhill Jag]

6 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Several points here:

• Club is getting full value for the hospitality places
• The cost is being met partly from TJF's sale of tickets to members, and partly from TJF's accumulated funds (in much the same way as we've used excess funds to pay for other members draws and events)
• TJF will have contributed more than £150k to the Club this calendar year
• In those circumstances, it seemed only right to give something back to members and to acknowledge their efforts
• The way the hospitality event has been structured is designed to enable funds over and above those in the £10kpm pledge to hit the Club's coffers just before the January window
• January fixtures are ones the Club traditionally struggles to fill hospitality, so there is often a deadweight loss in empty seats at hospitality
• This arrangement ensures a fully sold-out Alan Rough Lounge at no risk to the Club
• This event was possible because TJF has been raising comfortably in excess of its budgeted commitment to the Football Club (and will still do so even with the new Youth Academy pledge)

There are also strategic justifications for an event like this, beyond the immediate economic benefit to the Club:

• Introducing hospitality to a new audience
• TJF is experimenting with variation to the hospitality itinerary and experience (so it's a commercial learning exercise for the Club)
• TJF has seen an increase in members and pledges since the event was launched (getting people to pledge more and for longer is critical to what we can promise the Club in future seasons)

The Club will maximise its revenue raising longer-term by having genuine options that appeal to lots of different people. If some people want to donate to the Players' Fund but not to TJF, that's completely fine and up to them.

Personally, I will be channelling my own resources wherever possible through TJF initiatives, because I think it's important to build the sustainability of the fan fundraising vehicle. The Players Fund helps Kris Doolan in January. Building a mass appeal TJF helps build a sustainable football club for generations. There is wider social value to building up a strong supporters' association, with connections into the wider community.

This isn't just an exercise in tipping as much money into the Club as possible. It's about building a set of institutions that makes income streams deliverable, reliable and repeatable. That's what protects the Club's future, and a vibrant supporters' association that regularly does things to value its members is a critical part of that.

 

With all due respect - its the job of the Clubs Board of Directors to run a balanced budget and provide adequate funds for the Player Budget - its not the job of TJF ( in essence the Club Shareholder ) to do the Boards job for them - lets call this for what it is - its a begging bowl to make up for lack of cash for the January Transfer Window - it IS an exercise in tipping as much money into the Club as possible for the Board to spend as they please - there IS no clear lines of who is actually in charge - as TJF and the Board are joined at the hip - therefore Corporate Governance where Shareholders hold Boards to account is non existent - Weak Corporate Governance creates badly run Companies

we received £500K in “ investment” a few weeks ago - yet we are Crowdfunding in the run up to Xmas when Fans Money is tight to bolster the Managers Jan Transfer Window and somehow this is being spun as a positive - its not - its a desperate call for Fans to stick in cash 

If the Board doesn't have enough money - make cuts - balance the budget - if they dont have the Business Skills to do that - the Shareholders remove them and get someone who can - thats Business 

is TJF the shareholder are the Boards Enabler ? make your mind up 

 

 

 

[BowenBoys]

7 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

Several points here:

• Club is getting full value for the hospitality places
• The cost is being met partly from TJF's sale of tickets to members, and partly from TJF's accumulated funds (in much the same way as we've used excess funds to pay for other members draws and events)
• TJF will have contributed more than £150k to the Club this calendar year
• In those circumstances, it seemed only right to give something back to members and to acknowledge their efforts
• The way the hospitality event has been structured is designed to enable funds over and above those in the £10kpm pledge to hit the Club's coffers just before the January window
• January fixtures are ones the Club traditionally struggles to fill hospitality, so there is often a deadweight loss in empty seats at hospitality
• This arrangement ensures a fully sold-out Alan Rough Lounge at no risk to the Club
• This event was possible because TJF has been raising comfortably in excess of its budgeted commitment to the Football Club (and will still do so even with the new Youth Academy pledge)

There are also strategic justifications for an event like this, beyond the immediate economic benefit to the Club:

• Introducing hospitality to a new audience
• TJF is experimenting with variation to the hospitality itinerary and experience (so it's a commercial learning exercise for the Club)
• TJF has seen an increase in members and pledges since the event was launched (getting people to pledge more and for longer is critical to what we can promise the Club in future seasons)

The Club will maximise its revenue raising longer-term by having genuine options that appeal to lots of different people. If some people want to donate to the Players' Fund but not to TJF, that's completely fine and up to them.

Personally, I will be channelling my own resources wherever possible through TJF initiatives, because I think it's important to build the sustainability of the fan fundraising vehicle. The Players Fund helps Kris Doolan in January. Building a mass appeal TJF helps build a sustainable football club for generations. There is wider social value to building up a strong supporters' association, with connections into the wider community.

This isn't just an exercise in tipping as much money into the Club as possible. It's about building a set of institutions that makes income streams deliverable, reliable and repeatable. That's what protects the Club's future, and a vibrant supporters' association that regularly does things to value its members is a critical part of that.

 

This is straight from the Civil Service play book, page 1. It says nothing. You could as well state that there has been an increase in membership since the Bake Off final or since it started snowing.

Most of your points are well considered but adding puff like this isn't helpful.