Tranche 2 & the Preservation of Power

[fenski]

18 minutes ago, Bobbyhouston said:

Fan Owned model is made up of wee daft boys and girls who’ve no ****** idea about money 

selling Pins FFS geez a break , need to get shot of this shit show fan model and get people in the door with proper money rather than pin money or fundraiser in pubs where wee daft boys and girls have a few venom pints sick everywhere then tell all the other daft cxnts it was great 

look at our fan base on a Saturday 90% are under 18 and skint 

Yeah. Need to appeal to the old guys who are all totally minted. Get them back in the board room. Cigars, brandy and a few business deals on the golf course will sort it. None of this inclusive pish. ******* right.

[Derby Jag]

Looks like resounding "victory" for the proposal then

[JAG1970]

There were 2575 registered beneficiariesissued ballots and 1494 secret ballots were cast on the Balotilo platform (a 58% turnout).

1393 of the beneficiaries (93.2%) voted in favour of the tranche 2 proposal, whilst 82(5.5%) voted against, with 19 (1.3%) submitting a ballot without a preference.

[Fawlty Towers]

3 minutes ago, Derby Jag said:

Looks like resounding "victory" for the proposal then

There were 2575 registered beneficiaries issued ballots and 1494 secret ballots were cast on the Balotilo platform (a 58% turnout).

1393 of the beneficiaries (93.2%) voted in favour of the tranche 2 proposal, whilst 82 (5.5%) voted against, with 19 (1.3%) submitting a ballot without a preference.

[allyo]

There is acknowledgement in the communication that things have to change, greater experience and expertise needed, and that selling off shares to keep us liquid is not a sustainable way to proceed. 

Hopefully an opportunity for some breathing space to get it right. I'd say it's a shaky start to fan ownership but that that was maybe inevitable. I still say well done to the people who have stepped up.

[Jagged Edge]

39 minutes ago, allyo said:

There is acknowledgement in the communication that things have to change, greater experience and expertise needed, and that selling off shares to keep us liquid is not a sustainable way to proceed. 

Hopefully an opportunity for some breathing space to get it right. I'd say it's a shaky start to fan ownership but that that was maybe inevitable. I still say well done to the people who have stepped up.

Are you JJ in disguise?🙂

 

Perhaps JJ's posts are now receiving the attention they deserved........

[Jordanhill Jag]

On 12/13/2024 at 9:27 PM, fenski said:

Yeah. Need to appeal to the old guys who are all totally minted. Get them back in the board room. Cigars, brandy and a few business deals on the golf course will sort it. None of this inclusive pish. ******* right.

Its more likely to be low fat yogurt - evian water and the gym - but its essentially the same funding model - without the circa £1.5 MN from Donald Mclymont - his Associates +a  wealthy Thistle Benefactor both the Club and the Academy would be shut 

Lets not pretend that Fan Ownership is some sort of “ inclusive” utopia - all we now have is a Committee of Trust Nominees spending other peoples money 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Jordanhill Jag

[erty13]

5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Its more likely to be low fat yogurt - evian water and the gym - but its essentially the same funding model - without the circa £1.2MN from Donald Mclymont - his Associates + wealthy Thistle Benefactor both the Club and the Academy would be shut 

Lets not pretend that Fan Ownership is some sort of “ inclusive” utopia - all we now have is a Committee of Trust Nominees spending other peoples money 

And a finance director who was appointed by Jackie Low

[Jordanhill Jag]

52 minutes ago, allyo said:

There is acknowledgement in the communication that things have to change, greater experience and expertise needed, and that selling off shares to keep us liquid is not a sustainable way to proceed. 

Hopefully an opportunity for some breathing space to get it right. I'd say it's a shaky start to fan ownership but that that was maybe inevitable. I still say well done to the people who have stepped up.

And do you really think they are going to dump there wee gang of Trust Nominees ? 

Do you really think that TJF are going to allow radical change that would diminish there Grip on the Club Decisions

They have had ample opportunity - as soon as the Board presented a budget with a massive loss they should have made changes

as for no more dilution of ShareHolding - thats very easy to make that statement - No one is stepping in with anymore money - when Tranche 2 is gone - thats it

We have a grossly inflated Player Budget that we are stuck with for a Couple of Seasons

We have a Non Playing overhead which we cant afford

We run at a Trading loss 

We are told that “ not one single saving can be made” by a Club Board Director 

We are told that “ We can increase Commercial Revenue by £250 to £500K in renegotiating terms” and this will wipe out our losses - by another Club Board Director 

Thats it - thats the Plan - no Savings - Companies are going to pay a massive hike on Commercial Contracts for a Club firmly stuck in the Championship 

and we are going to reach out to the

“ Thistle Business Community” but they could have done that last Season - why didn't they ?  Are we suggesting that Thistle Fans with Business Experience are not good enough to sit on our Board ? 

Between the two Tranches and other donations to the Academy and the Football Fund we will have received £1.5MN over a 15 Month period

Yet we are going backwards on the Park and we are going no where off it

But we have managed to have a Club with its various constituents and within the Club itself having circa 8 Committees   
 

We are in a mess - the responsible party is TJF - they appiont the Board ( and they remove people from it. They sign off Budgets - they sit in on interviews for key appointments

They have a complete and utter cheek saying that things have to change - this id there mess

perhaps if they ( and Board Directors Relatives) spent less time attacking people who are pointing out its a mess and more time holding the Board to Account we might not be in this shambles

The only person they removed was Alastair Creevy - they guy who stepped in with a Six Figure Sum to keep us afloat - his reward was to be publicly removed from the Board - and TJF are going to reach out to the “ Thistle Business Community “  

unless there is at least three resignations at the AGM -being replaced by Thistle Fans with the required experience - unless we start getting a sustainable business model - we are going no where   

 

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

54 minutes ago, erty13 said:

And a finance director who was appointed by Jackie Low

Ran out of likes 

[allyo]

1 hour ago, Jagged Edge said:

Are you JJ in disguise?🙂

 

I think JJ has answered that already. 

I'm not one for being persistently negative, but i do think there's a place for challenge and asking difficult questions, so fair play.

[allyo]

29 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

They have a complete and utter cheek saying that things have to change - this is there mess

 

Would you prefer that they said things don't have to change?

We get that you're angry. Many if us get that there are valid concerns. But if you won't acknowledge common ground it becomes very difficult for anyone to engage in your arguments.

[Woodstock Jag]

TJF has always been clear that Tranche 2 on its own isn't a sustainability strategy, but that it buys time and space to ensure one is properly developed and implemented on realistic timelines.

More member comms will follow on this shortly.

 

[Fawlty Towers]

48 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

TJF has always been clear that Tranche 2 on its own isn't a sustainability strategy, but that it buys time and space to ensure one is properly developed and implemented on realistic timelines.

More member comms will follow on this shortly.

 

For me what we all need to focus on now is getting a plan that sees the club running on a sustainable break even basis. Also, the plan needs to be clear and something that people can easily understand. Finally, communication will be key so views whether agreeing or disagreeing can be taken onboard (I know I would have said something if I knew we were planning to lose £280K rather than break even).

Edited December 15, 2024 by Fawlty Towers

[ChiThistle]

Apologies for the vagueness, but I recall another club a few years back had a home match against one of the Old Firm teams, and the club had to decide whether to relocate its own supporters to accommodate the opponent’s support and the increased revenue from it.

They put it to their own supporters and said, “if we don’t move the home support, then we need to make up this much in our own increased attendance.”  I want to say the home support responded positively and the decision was taken to not move the home fans.

I’d like to see more of these kinds of fan consultations where outcomes and expectations are more clearly set.

[jaggy]

10 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

Apologies for the vagueness, but I recall another club a few years back had a home match against one of the Old Firm teams, and the club had to decide whether to relocate its own supporters to accommodate the opponent’s support and the increased revenue from it.

They put it to their own supporters and said, “if we don’t move the home support, then we need to make up this much in our own increased attendance.”  I want to say the home support responded positively and the decision was taken to not move the home fans.

I’d like to see more of these kinds of fan consultations where outcomes and expectations are more clearly set.

St Johnstone issued a similar ultimatum to their fans recently. 
 

We were moved out of the Jackie Husband last time we were in the Premier League. I don’t recall being given any say in the decision

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 hours ago, allyo said:

Would you prefer that they said things don't have to change?

We get that you're angry. Many if us get that there are valid concerns. But if you won't acknowledge common ground it becomes very difficult for anyone to engage in your arguments.

OK - lets look at "Common Ground" 

This Season - Between Tranche 2 - Players Fund - TJF Donation - Academy Donation & various other Donations - the Club will have received circa £1MN in additional funding - that's measured against a Trading Turnover of £2MN 

So Take out Tranche 2 - we still got circa £500K in "donations" - yet we are forecasting to struggle to pay our Creditors without Tranche 2 

Now the TJF  "sustainable strategy" is to be implemented over "realistic timelines."  ( which means kick it down the Road ) 

Now the Board have stated breakeven will be via increased Revenue from renegotiated ( or additional ) Commercial deals  

TJF also appointed a Board of various Trust "Nominees - and other Non Thistle Fan Directors for "Commercial Expertise" ( No idea why they think that this Commercial Expertise does not exist within our Fanbase )   

So here is why Common Ground cant be reached 

If those giving Cash to the Club stop - we are in serious trouble 

If the Board & TJF  think there is £500K in additional Commercial Revenue for a Club stuck in the Championship - if they believe that-  I have some Magic Beans to sell them  ( but the Board & TJF clearly do ) 

As we saw from the last £280K forecast lost - there is No Plan B beyond "donations" 

So in simple terms - we have to cut costs ( not the Squad) We have to target Breakeven Now - Not Next Season -or in Two Seasons - Now     ( its unlikely we are going up - so Revenues are only go one way ) 

We have to appiont Directors from the Thistle Business Community who can deliver that - we are looking at at least three - maybe four Directors moving on - and being replaced + Couple of Experienced Non Execs 

Now the Board & TJF - they want the Status Quo ( with other people funding it ) -they liked there positions  -  but have No real credible plan to dig us out of this mess 

I'm all for Common Ground - but my Views - against the Board & TJF Views of how to get to a Sustainable Business Model & the required timescales are very different  

 

  

 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Jordanhill Jag

[Woodstock Jag]

14 minutes ago, ChiThistle said:

Apologies for the vagueness, but I recall another club a few years back had a home match against one of the Old Firm teams, and the club had to decide whether to relocate its own supporters to accommodate the opponent’s support and the increased revenue from it.

They put it to their own supporters and said, “if we don’t move the home support, then we need to make up this much in our own increased attendance.”  I want to say the home support responded positively and the decision was taken to not move the home fans.

I’d like to see more of these kinds of fan consultations where outcomes and expectations are more clearly set.

St Mirren.

[allyo]

The Status Quo with capital letters? 

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, ChiThistle said:

Apologies for the vagueness, but I recall another club a few years back had a home match against one of the Old Firm teams, and the club had to decide whether to relocate its own supporters to accommodate the opponent’s support and the increased revenue from it.

They put it to their own supporters and said, “if we don’t move the home support, then we need to make up this much in our own increased attendance.”  I want to say the home support responded positively and the decision was taken to not move the home fans.

I’d like to see more of these kinds of fan consultations where outcomes and expectations are more clearly set.

Think it was St Mirren

[Fawlty Towers]

TJF update:

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/message-from-the-tjf-chair-2/

[Jordanhill Jag]

23 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

TJF update:

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/message-from-the-tjf-chair-2/

If there was ever any doubt as to the absolute arrogance of TJF its the fact that they had a Temporary Board Rep until there were direct elections 

rather than doing what was agreed and have there Director Step down - they will consult there members in the New Year 

They seriously cannot bring themselves to relinquish one iota of Power on any level 

As for them needing “one ideally two people with Commercial Experience” what is it that the majority of the Board seem to think they bring to the party 

and what self respecting business person is going to apply - for the right people - YOU APPROACH THEM - they don't go through a Beauty Parade 

 

[Woodstock Jag]

TJF is now being criticised for:

(a) being a democratic organisation and letting its members decide whether and how they want to be represented on the Club Board

(b) calling for an open and transparent recruitment process to strengthen the Club Board, instead of having people tap up their pals in smoke-filled rooms

Pretty comfortable with being criticised for both of those things, to be honest.

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

6 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

TJF is now being criticised for:

(a) being a democratic organisation and letting its members decide whether and how they want to be represented on the Club Board

(b) calling for an open and transparent recruitment process to strengthen the Club Board, instead of having people tap up their pals in smoke-filled rooms

Pretty comfortable with being criticised for both of those things, to be honest.

 

Your being criticised for not sticking to your agreement -and your Director not stepping down after direct elections - you clearly admit it was a temporary arrangement

 its not up to your members - you had a deal with the Club - try sticking to it - or are TJF members now the Club -and they speak for us all - just shows that the Board do as TJF tell them to do ( Hows the Beer and Sandwiches these days ) 

As for “ smoke filled rooms” and “ pals” tell me how exactly did you recruit the two directors that were not from the Trusts at the last AGM ? 

Did they have to “ apply” ? Go through an interview process ? 

The simple fact is that if you want quality you approach them - they don't approach you

as for “ one” ideally “two” 

So read as - TJF are supporting all current Board members to stay in there place ( unless they have decided to step down personally ) 

We have Tranche 2 - the Status Quo remains 

 

[ChiThistle]

Yeah, I think JJ has some fair criticisms of TJF but…..saying members weren’t consulted about Issue A and then complaining members ARE BEING CONSULTED about Issue B seems weird.

That kind of thing should only happen between someone and their spouse.