lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Didn't take long for the thread to get hijacked. Well the spirit of the thread anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Didn't take long for the thread to get hijacked. Well the spirit of the thread anyway. If that's aimed at me, then let me be clear - I'm backing Archie, he got us into the top division in the first place. BUT, let's not be blind to the fact that we've gone on a detour lately, and those who were around us before Christmas have upped their game and gone past us. That's not something to be complacent about, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I don't think anyone's being complacent. Four new signings suggests that there was an acknowledgement that some changes were needed. I just think that those on the more "measured" side of the argument are suggesting a bit more patience, a bit less pessimism and a bit less blame. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I don't think anyone's being complacent. Four new signings suggests that there was an acknowledgement that some changes were needed. I just think that those on the more "measured" side of the argument are suggesting a bit more patience, a bit less pessimism and a bit less blame. Hear hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 If that's aimed at me, then let me be clear - I'm backing Archie, he got us into the top division in the first place. BUT, let's not be blind to the fact that we've gone on a detour lately, and those who were around us before Christmas have upped their game and gone past us. That's not something to be complacent about, is it? True. I don't think there was anything complacent about the OP either. The specific of perspective isn't really being addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Ultimately we all engage with football because we enjoy it. In my opinion some people on here are showing signs that they are hating every minute of their interaction with PTFC, whether that's watching the games or discussing it on the internet. If you find the need to come onto the internet and post literally hundreds of posts each week saying the exact same thing then maybe it's time to take some time away from the computer, and/or the football, and get some enjoyment from life. It is after all only a game. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Having spent thirty odd years of my life following Thistle, I heartily agree with Norge's sentiments. To be honest the results have been frankly rotten, but in the times I've been going along to Firhill, that would unfortunately account for the majority of the "entertainment" I've seen. In addition, as others have said at a far lower standard. I don't buy all this crap that the game in this country is on its knees. Usually that's usually just media shorthand for getting Sevco back in the League. Obviously, only a fool would argue that standards in Scotland have dropped steeply from the sixties, yet I think in the main that is down to sociological factors as much as anything else. Back to Thistle if the worst comes to pass we'll end up in the play-offs and I can honestly see any realistic alternative than getting behind the present set up. Moaning a wee bit, does let off bit of steam, but calling for wholesale change right away is totally unrealistic and at the risk of hurting anyone's feelings its silly into the bargain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The title of this thread is perspective. Another perspective is that last night we played with arguably 5 starters sitting it out. Fox, Welsh,Osbourne, Bannigan and ATS. It is hardly surprising that we didn't compete too well to start with. Another perspective is our squad isn't much older than Hearts - 1 year older according to the Record. It is entirely possible that this team isn't yet good enough for this league and that we will end up in the playoffs - but there is no reason to think that we can't win that - after all it is pretty much the same team that won it last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I actually think that if we're talking about the decline of Scottish football then a factor is the fear that has been cultivated through the SPL set-up. Watching St Johnstone trying to kill the entire second half last night was depressing. If that's what it takes to become established premier league club then we can do without it. The new SPFL to some extent should address this, and reduce the fear factor, and I hope that Thistle keep playing their game, trying to improve. What will be will be, if we aren't good enough for this league then so be it, but I think we are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 18 months ago (End of 2011-2012 season) we were 6th in league 1 - 9 points above a relegation play off spot (Jackie was given time and turned it around) 1 year ago we couldn't buy an away win, and our league title was slipping away (Archie took the reigns and turned it around) Last year we were told by everyone we were too young to win the league (The "Young team" proved everyone wrong) We are now in the top league, where we all dreamed of going We have one of the smallest squads in the League We have one of the youngest squads in the League We have one of the lowest wage in the League We have the least amount of "Play time" experience within our squad at the top league We have the smallest scouting network in our league We have the least amount of coaches in our league BUT We have a manager who wants to play football the right way We have a team that try's to entertain every week We have a team full of potential Archie has done miracles with what he has been given, in such a short time, if folk had said to us after getting beaten by Morton at Firhill just over a year ago that we'd be sitting in 11th in a years time, with the same squad, trying to play decent football, we would have bitten their hands of for it. We all accepted McColls 3/5 year plan, Jackies long term plan to turn us around......... they were all given time Archie needs that and our backing and support, I honestly believe that Archie given time will have us playing well and winning well, He cares about the club, very few other managers would Reality check everyone, look where we were not so long ago and look where we are now Back the man Do you have any facts to back up these assertions for example the size of our squad v others ? Looks like just picked out the air yo support your argument We were playing better football earlier in the season than Tuesday but I guess that's progress ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I actually think that if we're talking about the decline of Scottish football then a factor is the fear that has been cultivated through the SPL set-up. Watching St Johnstone trying to kill the entire second half last night was depressing. If that's what it takes to become established premier league club then we can do without it. The new SPFL to some extent should address this, and reduce the fear factor, and I hope that Thistle keep playing their game, trying to improve. What will be will be, if we aren't good enough for this league then so be it, but I think we are. AGREED. St. Johnstone, like many other teams in the league, are just hammer throwers with one or two decent players. They play a horrible brand of football. I'm not sure I'd be that bothered about staying up if that's what we'd have to watch every week. This league really isn't the be all and end all. I'm proud that we are going against the grain and not simply doing what all other teams do - fill the team with guys who are all 6ft plus and hump the ball forward. Even last night, some of the link up play was great to watch. The first half against Killie on Saturday was outstanding. Yes, of course we didn't win either game, but is that really what people pay to see? Win at all costs? The attendances of teams who are now "established" bottom 6 sides would suggest otherwise. Take St. Johnstone, County, St. Mirren. Simply surviving in the top league doesn't get new fans through the gate. If we keep playing good football, we will have the best possible chance of attracting new fans through the gate. Edited January 23, 2014 by ian_mac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Do you have any facts to back up these assertions for example the size of our squad v others ? Looks like just picked out the air yo support your argument We were playing better football earlier in the season than Tuesday but I guess that's progress ? 17 players in 1st team less than killie, we have less than RC and St Mirren, posted in other threads Only hearts have a younger squad than us, posted in other threads Its commonly known our wage is less than the other teams Its also been communicated from the club we have no scout so have no scouting network We only have 1 GK coach (Who also plays) and 1 part time fitness coach for the 1st team, look at the other teams websites and see how much more they have We have less players with premier league experience than any other team Yes we played better football earlier in the season than Tuesday, but we played worse last season in the fog game than Tuesday, so yes progress, plus we have played far better this season and still got beat.. by more goals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) We played better football in the second half on Tuesday. You could call that progress. Then again you could just call it football. Edited January 22, 2014 by allyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Did anyone really expect us not to find this season much tougher than last? I for one had braced myself for at least a couple of humpings, and not even necessarily from the most obvious source (Celtic) but from Aberdeens and Motherwells of this division. The promoted team traditionally struggles in the top flight. As far as I am concerned, this season was always going to be about simply hanging in there. Anything other than that would have been a nice wee bonus. A win on Saturday - which isn't outside the realms of possibility - and we are right in there again. I know it is galling when you think about the victories that have turned into draws (like Killie last Saturday and County the Saturday before), or the draws that turn into defeats (Hibs at home). But come on, this has to be better than watching Thistle getting humped off the likes of Stenhousemuir in the third tier. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sunnylaw Jag Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 # As far as I am concerned, this season was always going to be about simply hanging in there. And that sums up what exactly we all need to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 The problem with supporters forums is that folk like the cup and thistlenowthistleforever post on them. Thankfully there are other reasonably minded people out there who support the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Quick look at the league games started by St Johnstone's team from last night. Banks 261 MacKay 429 Anderson 172 Scobbie 180 Wright 415 Millar 325 Cregg 160 McDonald 317 Croft 175 May 84+18sub/63 goals Wotherspoon 123 Subs Miller 155 O'Halloran Hell of a lot of experience in that squad. Only Wright, Millar and May played any games below Championship level. They also played in Europe this season knocking out Rosenberg. I tweeted into SportSound asking for Wright's feeling on the game. He basically said apart from the first 35 minutes we had them on the backfoot and we were only really missing someone to put the ball in the net. We've had players in our team who have been playing for 2 or 3 seasons and we created a lot more than them and the goal, although well worked was poorly defended again. We don't have the personnel to play a hoofball Plan B very well and when we do we simply give possession back to the opposition readily. We have an attack minded squad and I think the problem is scoring and creating the goals to cancel out or exceed the goals that we let in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I am being negative but I am pissed off with what I am seeing on the park. The facts are that if we lose on Saturday St Mirren will go 6 points clear of us and have a game in hand. Their game in hand is against Hearts so that's 9 points, almost half our total. Ross County have signed some good players so will be nowhere near relegation. Kilmarnock have Boyd who will get them points and they know how to win games. So it's only January we can only realistically catch a Killie team that we can't match and all but in the playoff. That's my perspective. But your perspective is largely baseless. St. Mirren's game in hand is against Celtic at Parkhead (ditto Kilmarnock btw); we have played Celtic twice (and admittedly lost both, if narrowly). Killie have 2 points more than us. They've won two more games than we have, but they have also lost one more. They've won 6 out of 22 games. How does that equate to "they know how to win"? Truth is that there is barely any difference between the crop of teams from 8th to 11th, though I take your point about County. They actually DO have good recent form. In contrast, Saturday's opponents, St. Mirren have actually got a worse record than us over the last 5 games: 1 win and 1 draw while we have 1 win and 2 draws. They have lost to Killie and St. Johnstone, been whipped by Celtic and drawn with Hearts prior to beating Hibs. We've played 4 of those teams. Lost less badly to Celtic and St. J, got a draw against Killie and beat Hearts. Given that County have beaten ICT, Dundee Utd and St. Johnstone in their last 5 games, maybe our 3-3 draw against them wasn't actually that bad. For Saturday, we will have Bannigan and ATS back, two important players for us, which should give the team much better balance than we had against St. Johnstone. We've already been to St. Mirren and beaten them. In the transfer window we've strengthened the centre defence, signed a decent forward and re-instated Erskine's creativity. I think we can win on Saturday, and if we do, things will look a whole lot better. Time will tell, but perspective is required and outlooks have to be based on facts rather than misapprehensions. Edited January 23, 2014 by David Stevenson 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I tweeted into SportSound asking for Wright's feeling on the game. He basically said apart from the first 35 minutes we had them on the backfoot and we were only really missing someone to put the ball in the net. Quite. This is from the BBC website and is a lot more balanced and close to reality than the incessantly negative comments that many post here: May's opener was thoroughly deserved as St Johnstone dominated for large spells of the first half before enduring a wave of unrelenting Thistle pressure in the second. Chris Erskine, Lyle Taylor, Kallum Higginbotham and Kris Doolan all came close for the Jags. "It was always going to be the case with the amount of quality players that Partick have," added Wright on BBC Radio Scotland's Sportsound. "I thought after we scored our goal it was our worst spell before half-time, but maybe sometimes you have to give credit to the opposition who moved the ball about well in that spell. "I think we deserved to be one up but Partick did come back into the game." Edited January 23, 2014 by David Stevenson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny12 Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 i agree with everything in the OP and find people calling for archies head an embarrassment to the club,and still think that even 8th is a realistic target if we can get some home wins, the thing that frustrates me that i wasnt expecting at the start of the season is the amount of games we should have won and threw away points. season is far from over! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westend Jag Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 We just need to be streetwise, make better decisions and cut out individual errors....as well as having our best 11 on the park at the same time, when was the last time that happened? I am just a wee bit scared that I opened a post from the Norge jag that I agreed with! Normally get fed up with that DVD that was gonna make us a million chat or how our Bod or club admin are no very good.... Good post big man, needed saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 17 players in 1st team less than killie, we have less than RC and St Mirren, posted in other threads Only hearts have a younger squad than us, posted in other threads Its commonly known our wage is less than the other teams Its also been communicated from the club we have no scout so have no scouting network We only have 1 GK coach (Who also plays) and 1 part time fitness coach for the 1st team, look at the other teams websites and see how much more they have We have less players with premier league experience than any other team Yes we played better football earlier in the season than Tuesday, but we played worse last season in the fog game than Tuesday, so yes progress, plus we have played far better this season and still got beat.. by more goals Exactly the first team squad is currently 23 how does that shape up?! You don't know how our wages compare its ' common knowledge ' Which teams have more than one goalkeeping coach ? Actually a few teams don't have a scouting network, scouting has changed Our average age is not far off 3 other teams and Erskune and Mair are older Your experience point is usually going to apply to promoted teams like us Now don't let facts get in the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Great post. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Exactly the first team squad is currently 23 how does that shape up?! It is 17 less than Killie, and also less than St Mirren and Ross County You don't know how our wages compare its ' common knowledge ' Its been posted several times we are on around £500 a week, way less than Livi, Dundee, Morton and 10 other SPFL teams Which teams have more than one goalkeeping coach ? Read the post, apart from the 1 GK coach we have a part time fitness coach Actually a few teams don't have a scouting network, scouting has changed Read the post we don't even have a scout Our average age is not far off 3 other teams and Erskune and Mair are older 2 players who came in on loan Your experience point is usually going to apply to promoted teams like us So is a valid point although other teams in the past have bought a squad of journeymen who have been their before, we can't afford that and would go against all Archie is aiming for by playing good football Now don't let facts get in the way Read my post properly again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Read my post properly again I did .... Killie have a first team squad if 40?! No......what are the first team squads exactly of the others ? 23 is pretty good You admit you have no idea what our wages are just that someone posted £500 a week.... That's not a fact! What are the goalkeeping/fitness coaching arrangements of other clubs! Do you know? Which other teams don't have a scout ? Do you know? Have excluded loan players from all other teams then, I assume loan players don't play?! Ridiculous Any more facts?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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