Third Lanark Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I did .... Killie have a first team squad if 40?! No......what are the first team squads exactly of the others ? 23 is pretty good You admit you have no idea what our wages are just that someone posted £500 a week.... That's not a fact! What are the goalkeeping/fitness coaching arrangements of other clubs! Do you know? Which other teams don't have a scout ? Do you know? Have excluded loan players from all other teams then, I assume loan players don't play?! Ridiculous Any more facts?! Erskine has just come in on monday and Mair only arrived on friday and they have already made a big difference I felt, give them a few games and we will really see their impact Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Read my post again - it says ON RECENT FORM. Now go check the recent form of both sides, both home and away. Have a look at the last 5 games and get back to me!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Have a look at the last 5 games and get back to me!!!! If only the last 5 games is the yardstick, then you are correct. Since we beat them in September? Since they beat us at Firhill? Since the beginning of December? Since Lee Mair signed for us last Friday? I'm sure you can agree that the trend is in St. Mirren's favour. That's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) We're a Championship club with a Championship infrasctructure playing in the Premiership. That isn't a critcism of anyone just an acknowledgement of the situation that we are in. You don't suddently become an established Premiership club at the flick of a switch. It takes time to build and that invariably means a few struggles along the way, both on and off the pitch. Our current run is hugely frustrating especially as I think most of us realise that this isn't a poor Partick Thistle team by any means; we should be picking up more points. The Club as a whole is progressing. Perhaps that progress is slower than some would like but it's progressing all the same. We're doing that with a young team that despite all the recent frustrations plays football in an entertaining fashion. I for one am enjoying the majority of the football we've played this season (the first 35 minutes on Tuesday not included). We have a young manager who posssess precisely the kind of character that I want to see lead the football side of things. We should accept that there are limitations to our squad but acknowledge that 11th place in Scotland's top league isn't a representation of bad times for Partick Thistle. Stay up this season and the progress to becoming an established top flight team, with the infrastructure that comes with that, will continue. It might be a bit of a scrap doing that but I'm confident we will. Edited January 23, 2014 by Tom Hosie 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I did .... Killie have a first team squad if 40?! No......what are the first team squads exactly of the others ? 23 is pretty good Kilmarnock have 49 players listed including those eligible to play U20 and 6 coaches (Plus manager & Assistant) Hearts have 25 1st team listed plus 8 U20 and have 2 coaches plus a director of football (Plus Manager) You admit you have no idea what our wages are just that someone posted £500 a week.... That's not a fact! Based on Maxi's figures the other year and snippets of what we have heard its not far off What are the goalkeeping/fitness coaching arrangements of other clubs! Do you know? Killie - Full time, Hearts - Full Time (Plus a striker coach) Which other teams don't have a scout ? Do you know? The only other team I know that have no scout is Rangers, I know St Mirren, Killie both have more than one they can call on Have excluded loan players from all other teams then, I assume loan players don't play?! Ridiculous 2 of the loan players have only been here for 1 week Any more facts?! You really don't like Archie do you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think it's all the more frustrating because we're generally playing well, but not picking up points. If we were just terrible each week, then it would be easier to explain away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 you are being bizarre.... ok by that definition we have 46 players and coaches vs Killies 49 whats your point? Hearts 25 vs our older more experienced 23....your point? You still don't know our wages so admit it.....the figure of £500 was first post here over 3 years ago Our goalkeeping coach is full time, he happens also to be player we have scouts we can call on, all teams do thats how it works they are just not on the payroll The fact that they are loan players I don't understand or have been here a week... they play! so some facts, some assertions, not comparing apples with apples and lots you don't know I like Archie as it happens and want him to succeed but i also watch us ( jesus tuesday !) and we are in trouble and he needs help there is no value in trying to always defend the manager at all costs no matter what and making excuses for everything the fact is we are competitive with these other teams we are just not winning and the manager has to take some responsibility for that? in most clubs no home win going into Feburary is not viewed as success 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The £500 a week figure was mentioned over ten years ago during Gerry Collins reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The £500 a week figure was mentioned over ten years ago during Gerry Collins reign. So what do you believe our players are on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 So what do you believe our players are on? I'm just saying that is our assumed wage. You probably aren't far off for our squad average I would say. I think they may be on slightly higher basic salary. I'm not sure if we have changed the bonus system this year either. I heard from a source that one of our players is on £800 a week plus they received a decent signing bonus but it is unlikely they are all on that level of pay, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 So what do you believe our players are on? Exactly you have no idea so stop quoting as facts things that clearly are not It is highly probable we have players on more than £500 per week and given all the other payments I am not dure anyone knows how our wages compare to others 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 OP makes many good points. Forums tend to be a mix of extreme opinions. The truth must lie somewhere in the middle. Archie isn't the only manager in the country who wants to play football the right way. That is something we as a club can insist upon from prospective managers. Same way Swansea went Martinez - Sousa - Rodgers - Laudrup but played the same style of football, when Laudrup goes Swansea aren't going to become 'hammer throwers' because as a club they will choose not to. Our board decides who the next manager is and can choose one with a track record of attractive football or who has a vision of attractive football in the future. It is possible to 'love Archie' but not think he is a particularly good manager. Jury is still out for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I rememember Jackie Mac saying last year that the players were on an average £300 per week. And with Beattie saying that the budget would be doubled, on that basis, Norgethistle isn't far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I would be extremely surprised if our player budget isn't considerably lower than 10 other clubs in the league. I happen to know roughly how low a wage a couple of our players were on last season and the relative hardships they and their families were put thru. Beattie said the player budget would double this season, an arbitrary number no doubt but probably not far off the truth. If that's the case then I feel it's safe to assume we're paying a relatively small wage. If you want to think we're under-performing as our wage structure is on par with the clubs around us feel free. Make your point but for the sake of sanity just do it the once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) some need to go back to school and learn definition of the word perspective, as well as refraining from posting juvenile nonsense and short-termism delusions Edited January 23, 2014 by yoda-jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Read my post again - it says ON RECENT FORM. Now go check the recent form of both sides, both home and away. If only the last 5 games is the yardstick, then you are correct. Since we beat them in September? Since they beat us at Firhill? Since the beginning of December? Since Lee Mair signed for us last Friday? I'm sure you can agree that the trend is in St. Mirren's favour. That's my point. Think the above says it all in fact you even put it in CAPITALS!!..5 games to me is a fair reflection of current form!! Next! Edited January 23, 2014 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The problem with supporters forums is that folk like the cup and thistlenowthistleforever post on them. Thankfully there are other reasonably minded people out there who support the team. ^^^ Doesn't know what the word forum means. The problem with football forums, like this one, is that there are a lot of people that have strong opinions on the team when they don't even go to the games, The Daily Record match report doesn't give an accurate reflection guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Daily Record match report doesn't give an accurate reflection guys. And as I tried to point out above, neither do you. Maybe you could go for a spot as cub reporter and fill the page with disinformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruchillnomore Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Just throwing this one out there but if the manager was anyone else other than Alan Archiebald would we have given him this length of time with the current record we have. There would have been lots and lots of people on here and in the present board calling for his head. Before anyone starts to have a go I am just asking the question ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Just throwing this one out there but if the manager was anyone else other than Alan Archiebald would we have given him this length of time with the current record we have. There would have been lots and lots of people on here and in the present board calling for his head. Before anyone starts to have a go I am just asking the question ????? Reckon this is a fair question. For me, I'd say yes. We gave the last manager longer, and saw a marked improvement after a year or so, and he struggled at a lower level over that first year. We have a young manager learning his trade in a very tough environment, so I'm willing to give him the chance and gamble that we'll end up with a very good manager who has a good degree of loyalty to the club. I know some will call it blind optimism, but I'm allowed this - the thought of being another 5/6 years down the line, established in the top flight (argue away), with a strong youth academy starting to provide one or two prospects, and the manager instilling his style of play from bottom to top of the setup - that's what I see as the future of the club and I like it. I don't doubt that Archie gets a little more support due to his connection with the club, but is it only from the fans, or from the board too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Just throwing this one out there but if the manager was anyone else other than Alan Archiebald would we have given him this length of time with the current record we have. There would have been lots and lots of people on here and in the present board calling for his head. Before anyone starts to have a go I am just asking the question ????? Assuming that we were playing the same brand of football, for me it's a definite yes. My support for Archie is less to do with his legend status and more to do with my enjoyment of our games over the past 12 months. And anyway, his current record is an unexpected promotion and half a season in the top flight where we've actually lost fewer than half our games (unusual for a team in 11th, I suspect). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hosie Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 It's possible to have had the exact the same results and points total under a different manager and believe that he is the wrong man for the job. My support of Archie, like the post above, has little to do with his status at the Club but because I think he is the right man for the job and I like the direction the Club is heading in. If you have the right man you stick with them during tough times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Just throwing this one out there but if the manager was anyone else other than Alan Archiebald would we have given him this length of time with the current record we have. There would have been lots and lots of people on here and in the present board calling for his head. Before anyone starts to have a go I am just asking the question ????? Yes, he is trying to play football, he is rellying on youth (That potentially has a re-sale value), and he seems to care deeply about the club, everything I want to see in a manager 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stevenson Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Just throwing this one out there but if the manager was anyone else other than Alan Archiebald would we have given him this length of time with the current record we have. There would have been lots and lots of people on here and in the present board calling for his head. Before anyone starts to have a go I am just asking the question ????? Length of time? He hasn't even had the job a year. He finished the job of getting us promoted by improving our away form and picking up a couple of guys from Dunfermline's implosion to help us over the line. We are not in a fantastic position this season, but despite playing some really nice football, we have had very few lucky breaks. Despite that, there are 3 clubs within 3 points of us. Archie has signed mainly decent enough players considering the budget that a newly promoted club with our income-generating capacity can expect. Other clubs are clearly able to offer more cash and stability than we can, so in that respect his hands are tied. (It is reported today that we tried to sign Tom Hateley but got knocked back). We are in a very similar position at this stage of the season to where we were in the seasons under Lambie and he had far more experienced players in the squad when those teams were promoted or subsequently retained their place. So given that Archie is doing a decent job with what he's got (even if we could be doing better) and has not even had a year in post, I would say that it would be ludicrous to even consider replacing him at this stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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