New Owner

[jaf]

17 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Unceremoniously removing his representative from the board would probably piss off most people 

Perhaps unceremoniously removing the prudent club accountant pissed off the shareholder group?

[Dick Dastardly]

5 minutes ago, jaf said:

Perhaps unceremoniously removing the prudent club accountant pissed off the shareholder group?

Maybe it did, but the club accountant wasn't putting his own money into the club 

[Jordanhill Jag]

21 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Unceremoniously removing his representative from the board would probably piss off most people

I don't know what happened between Colin Weir and the board, or what was said when whatever happened. I also don't know who from the board had the responsibility to do/say anything with Colin Weir. Whatever the case, it was clearly insufficient to keep him engaged, even if only as a stop gap until more was known about the take over. I find it incredulous to thing that the club had no means to get in contact with Colin Weir, even indirectly, for urgent discussions.

Whoever was directly responsible, David Beatie is the chairman and figure head and is therefore culpable, in my opinion, for losing our benefactor.

 

Can I ask why you think that we are in a better situation now than when JLow was in control ? The way I see it is

We have a board who don't appear to want to be in control long term. We have a possible takeover that we know very little of their plans and in any case is only 50-50 to go through. We have burned our bridges with a major source of ad-hoc funding that threatens the future of our academy and we have a squad which by the manager's own admission is incomplete.

If this sale doesn't go through, the situation is completely untenable. If it does, who knows what will happen 

Ok a possible reason for not being able to make direct Contact with Colin Weir is that I would imagine that is done via a very tight Filter System either via His Lawyer or Via his PR Company - even at the Club I would imagine his contact details are most likely a couple of people at best - therefore  going back to the Q&A the clear impression given by Ronnie was lack of direct contact  - therefore how you can blame David Beattie for that Im not sure 

Assuming there was no direct contact then its impossible to "piss someone off" as there has been no communication in the first place 

Jlo was not Colin Weirs person on the Board - she stated  publicly she was there on her own merits - nothing to do with Colin Weir 

So we are now advised we have that there is a budget shortfall - that is something thats a concern - Academy System was ad hoc funding - again not exacty a solid method long term - Manager has had the full agreed budget - if its incomplete then he spent his budget - why is that the New Boards Fault 

 

Going forward if there is no takeover - Shareholders will elect a Board most likely from the Fan Base who reflect  there views on how the Club is to be run - thats how these things work - we will live within our means        

   

 

     

[javeajag]

50 minutes ago, sandy said:

Have you got the facts & figures to support that assertion? Key players like Dools & Erskine agreed pay cuts remember; that wasn’t a premiership infrastructure, the Board trimmed our costs. 

Yes ....for example from the Scotsman May 23 2018

In a statement on ptfc.co.uk, club chairman David Beattie said that the Jags would be “learning from other clubs before us” adding: “It is clear that slashing budgets is a false economy. For the club to succeed in the Championship and remain prepared for that return to top flight football, we need to have a competitive budget that will fully match our aspirations.”

if you recall we made no cuts to any department in the club whether to back office or sports science ...  this was discussed here .....

im pretty sure a fair amount of the parachute payment went on this , paying off Archie and the large player turnover 

Beattie has to take his share of the accountability 

[javeajag]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok a possible reason for not being able to make direct Contact with Colin Weir is that I would imagine that is done via a very tight Filter System either via His Lawyer or Via his PR Company - even at the Club I would imagine his contact details are most likely a couple of people at best - therefore  going back to the Q&A the clear impression given by Ronnie was lack of direct contact  - therefore how you can blame David Beattie for that Im not sure 

Assuming there was no direct contact then its impossible to "piss someone off" as there has been no communication in the first place 

Jlo was not Colin Weirs person on the Board - she stated  publicly she was there on her own merits - nothing to do with Colin Weir 

So we are now advised we have that there is a budget shortfall - that is something thats a concern - Academy System was ad hoc funding - again not exacty a solid method long term - Manager has had the full agreed budget - if its incomplete then he spent his budget - why is that the New Boards Fault 

 

Going forward if there is no takeover - Shareholders will elect a Board most likely from the Fan Base who reflect  there views on how the Club is to be run - thats how these things work - we will live within our means        

   

 

     

Your first point is speculation ... I could just as easily imagine they didn’t bother to contact him it thought he wouldn’t mind ... we don’t know 

can you piss someone off by not communicating with them of course you can ! 

David Beattie brought Jlow on board 

the academy was not ad hoc funding is was given in three year tranches and was in that sense more stable than the finances of the club 

budget shortfall ... we have no idea what it is or why 

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, javeajag said:

We don’t know what discussions did or did not take place between the selling shareholders and Colin Weir if any ....the implication was he’s hard to get hold of and are not sure if we have his email........and I think he is a bit more than a sponsor as he was going to build a £7m academy !

it seems at any rate that they did not speak to him till after ditching the board in a legal but fairly brutal way 

now Weir has funded the Academy till the end of this season so he hasn’t just cut off all funding which gives time to work out alternatives and it was always the plan for the academy to be self funding as he was never going to support it  indefinitely .....as far as I know that’s all he’s done 

how many fans in here have this summer said  : not renewing my season ticket, I’ve cancelled jagzone etc quite a few still fans ?

but we don’t need weir .....were selling to billionaires 

I was trying to differentiate between a supporter and a sponsor/investor. The decision for a supporter to stop supporting is harder.

I am really not that interested in the politics of it all - I just want to go along to games to support the team.

Just as an aside, maybe the shenanigans that seem to be going on with Bury is holding up the EFL progressing our takeover?

[jlsarmy]

16 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ok a possible reason for not being able to make direct Contact with Colin Weir is that I would imagine that is done via a very tight Filter System either via His Lawyer or Via his PR Company - even at the Club I would imagine his contact details are most likely a couple of people at best - therefore  going back to the Q&A the clear impression given by Ronnie was lack of direct contact  - therefore how you can blame David Beattie for that Im not sure 

Assuming there was no direct contact then its impossible to "piss someone off" as there has been no communication in the first place 

Jlo was not Colin Weirs person on the Board - she stated  publicly she was there on her own merits - nothing to do with Colin Weir 

So we are now advised we have that there is a budget shortfall - that is something thats a concern - Academy System was ad hoc funding - again not exacty a solid method long term - Manager has had the full agreed budget - if its incomplete then he spent his budget - why is that the New Boards Fault 

 

Going forward if there is no takeover - Shareholders will elect a Board most likely from the Fan Base who reflect  there views on how the Club is to be run - thats how these things work - we will live within our means        

   

 

     

Possibly you could “ piss off a benefactor “ by not giving him the respect he thought he was due , in terms of the business relationship between Colin Weir and Jaqui Low , she was advising him with media and PR and that’s where the connection was with PTFC 

[Dick Dastardly]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Jlo was not Colin Weirs person on the Board - she stated  publicly she was there on her own merits - nothing to do with Colin Weir 

So we are now advised we have that there is a budget shortfall - that is something thats a concern - Academy System was ad hoc funding - again not exacty a solid method long term - Manager has had the full agreed budget - if its incomplete then he spent his budget - why is that the New Boards Fault    

   

 

     

JLo had strong connections with 3 Black Cats which had strong connections with Colin Weir. If you don't think that Low and Weir were therefore inextricably  linked then you are probably in a minority.

We had no budget shortfall before Beattie took over and from what we have learned over the past 130 pages is that budgets are based of forecasts. The budget shortfall is therefore of the current boards on making, and David Beatie is the figurehead of that board. The manager had been lead to believe, from the previous board, that there would be more funds available. Those funds were withdrawn as a result of the budget shortfall which I believe was of the current boards making. Therefore I do blame the board and Beattie is the figurehead. 

[Barney Rubble]

Just now, javeajag said:

Your first point is speculation ... I could just as easily imagine they didn’t bother to contact him it thought he wouldn’t mind ... we don’t know 

can you piss someone off by not communicating with them of course you can ! 

David Beattie brought Jlow on board 

the academy was not ad hoc funding is was given in three year tranches and was in that sense more stable than the finances of the club 

budget shortfall ... we have no idea what it is or why 

I wouldn't have thought the first point is speculation at all. It's more likely to be a prudent security system for Colin Weir to shield him from the many and regular requests for funding/charity donations/bungs that a man with his wealth will undoubtedly be subject to.

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Lenziejag said:

I was trying to differentiate between a supporter and a sponsor/investor. The decision for a supporter to stop supporting is harder.

I am really not that interested in the politics of it all - I just want to go along to games to support the team.

Just as an aside, maybe the shenanigans that seem to be going on with Bury is holding up the EFL progressing our takeover?

It was stated the consortium were doing due diligence but this must be complete by now given we are not that complicated a business  and the length of time it’s bring going on .... maybe it’s with the sfa/efl ... who knows 

bury sounds a real mess 

[javeajag]

1 minute ago, Barney Rubble said:

I wouldn't have thought the first point is speculation at all. It's more likely to be a prudent security system for Colin Weir to shield him from the many and regular requests for funding/charity donations/bungs that a man with his wealth will undoubtedly be subject to.

I would have thought .... constitutes speculation no ?

[Dick Dastardly]

Does anyone really think that if David Beattie had not wanted to make contact with Colin Weir to say that "we have a proposed takeover and need to urgently discuss the implications with you" that there was not a communications channel to do so. On receiving such a message it would be hard to ignore. More likely, it was not a priority and Low got to him first. I know this is speculation, however I'm sure it could have been handled better.

[Barney Rubble]

6 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I would have thought .... constitutes speculation no ?

You're playing semantics, Java. And even then you couldn't quote me accurately.

Common sense suggests that in his wealthy position, Colin Weir will limit his accessibility beyond his trusted circle.

[javeajag]

5 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

You're playing semantics, Java. And even then you couldn't quote me accurately.

Common sense suggests that in his wealthy position, Colin Weir will limit his accessibility beyond his trusted circle.

I wasn’t ... we don’t know that’s the reality ... I would have thought David Beattie would have contact details for him ... did he call ?

[Jordanhill Jag]

16 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Possibly you could “ piss off a benefactor “ by not giving him the respect he thought he was due , in terms of the business relationship between Colin Weir and Jaqui Low , she was advising him with media and PR and that’s where the connection was with PTFC 

Or as stated by Jaf " possibly " the previous Board could have pissed off the  Shareholders by removing one of the most competent Financial Controllers we have had in a long time    

So I accept  what your saying - You Could piss off Colin Weir by the removal of a person he had a Business Relationship with - ok - fair enough - so if thats the conclusion then Im 100% ok with that - it doesnt in any way mean that the New Board are in anyway responsible for Colin Weir removing his funding though  ? As in simple terms we could "piss him off" for a multitude of things at any given point - so its simple - he is gone - we move on 

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

1 minute ago, javeajag said:

I wasn’t ... we don’t know that’s the reality ... I would have thought David Beattie would have contact details for him ... did he call ?

Ronnie stated  at the Q&A that they hadnt been able to make direct contact and were frustrated by this - so Im sort of reading that they did not have direct contact details 

Why would David Beattie not lift up the phone if he had his number - what you are saying makes no sense on any level   

[Jordanhill Jag]

26 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

JLo had strong connections with 3 Black Cats which had strong connections with Colin Weir. If you don't think that Low and Weir were therefore inextricably  linked then you are probably in a minority.

We had no budget shortfall before Beattie took over and from what we have learned over the past 130 pages is that budgets are based of forecasts. The budget shortfall is therefore of the current boards on making, and David Beatie is the figurehead of that board. The manager had been lead to believe, from the previous board, that there would be more funds available. Those funds were withdrawn as a result of the budget shortfall which I believe was of the current boards making. Therefore I do blame the board and Beattie is the figurehead. 

Jlo clearly stated on her Twitter Feed she was a Club Director on her own Merits - nothing to do with Colin Weir - so suggest you take it up with her - not me 

Yes you are correct the Current Board have looked at Budgets and identified a shortfall - but David Kelly has years of balancing the budgets at PTFC - Im happy to take his view on things - and again your correct - the Manager may have been led to believe that MORE funds would be avialiable    - but this was late on when we got the Transer Monies - he knew his Budget in May - he identified Players - he assembled a squad - any other Players are additions - he is not short of Players as the Transfer Money was not part of the original plans 

The shortfall is not of a "making" its a review of likely income   

[javeajag]

17 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Ronnie stated  at the Q&A that they hadnt been able to make direct contact and were frustrated by this - so Im sort of reading that they did not have direct contact details 

Why would David Beattie not lift up the phone if he had his number - what you are saying makes no sense on any level   

Maybe he tried too late in the process ....and we do not know if Beattie spoke to him

[javeajag]

12 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Jlo clearly stated on her Twitter Feed she was a Club Director on her own Merits - nothing to do with Colin Weir - so suggest you take it up with her - not me 

Yes you are correct the Current Board have looked at Budgets and identified a shortfall - but David Kelly has years of balancing the budgets at PTFC - Im happy to take his view on things - and again your correct - the Manager may have been led to believe that MORE funds would be avialiable    - but this was late on when we got the Transer Monies - he knew his Budget in May - he identified Players - he assembled a squad - any other Players are additions - he is not short of Players as the Transfer Money was not part of the original plans 

The shortfall is not of a "making" its a review of likely income   

We don’t know what any shortfall is or why, is it now or projected, have budgets been adjusted up or down .....now I admit I dont know but you kind of imply you do ...if so tell us

i would just point out that Kelly was not financial controller for about a month ! So if there is a shortfall maybe he’s involved ?

[jaf]

50 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

JLo had strong connections with 3 Black Cats which had strong connections with Colin Weir. If you don't think that Low and Weir were therefore inextricably  linked then you are probably in a minority.

We had no budget shortfall before Beattie took over and from what we have learned over the past 130 pages is that budgets are based of forecasts. The budget shortfall is therefore of the current boards on making, and David Beatie is the figurehead of that board. The manager had been lead to believe, from the previous board, that there would be more funds available. Those funds were withdrawn as a result of the budget shortfall which I believe was of the current boards making. Therefore I do blame the board and Beattie is the figurehead. 

I think you would need to see both budgets and assumptions to know that for sure.

Perhaps for example one iteration of the budget saw the gap plugged by a loan on terms that some may see as favourable, others unfavourable.

 

 

 

[javeajag]

3 minutes ago, jaf said:

I think you would need to see both budgets and assumptions to know that for sure.

Perhaps for example one iteration of the budget saw the gap plugged by a loan on terms that some may see as favourable, others unfavourable.

 

 

 

Or perhaps the budget was to break even but the new board wanted a cushion and adjusted them accordingly 

or maybe the new owners wanted a larger surplus 

there are lots of possibilities 

[Dick Dastardly]

Without wanting to be a kill joy, after all this is rather good entertainment on a slow work day, I hope we can all agree that there are so few facts that they can be twisted to support whatever position you are trying to argue

[javeajag]

2 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Without wanting to be a kill joy, after all this is rather good entertainment on a slow work day, I hope we can all agree that there are so few facts that they can be twisted to support whatever position you are trying to argue

Yes you are correct .... but it is fun !

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Laugh a minute hilarity?

[allyo]

19 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Yes you are correct .... but it is fun !

When the fun stops, stop