Dick Dastardly Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 15 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Think the 11- 1 in the Premiership is possibly the stumbling block , been tried before and didn’t succeed because of the ridiculous 11- 1 vote to pass. But it will need a vote, which will be another chance for the SPFL to **** it up. They do have previous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelees jag Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Remember there is a new deal in place for next year. So there will be more money about . Thats if the season ever starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Dick Dastardly said: But it will need a vote, which will be another chance for the SPFL to **** it up. They do have previous It’ll come down to whether some of the teams St Johnstone, St Mirren etc want to drop 1 of the games against the Old Firm , don’t think that’s going to happen as they’re guaranteed a big crowd and also tv money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 12 hours ago, West of Scotland said: He takes a long walk around the houses until he gets to the point that he doesn't want a fourteen team league because he doesn't want Inverness promoted over Ayr. I'd have a lot more respect for these punters if they were just honest about their self-interest. Agreed. He says it would be grossly unfair if Inverness (2nd) were promoted ahead of Ayr (4th). But relegating Thistle who have played a game less than QoS is just collateral damage. Throbber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) If they do go for a 14 team league, it could be that Hearts will still go down, giving Dundee the 3rd promotion spot, so really pissing off Ayr( would be delicious) and still relegate us and Stranraer. Edited April 17, 2020 by Garscube Road End Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 58 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Think the 11- 1 in the Premiership is possibly the stumbling block , been tried before and didn’t succeed because of the ridiculous 11- 1 vote to pass. Who came up with this 11-1 and 75% rule and could it not be changed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 11 hours ago, cyprusjag said: To all those posters who are criticizing the clubs stance please tell us what they should have done to ensure that we would not be shafted, given that the deck was stacked before the vote was taken. I'm not interested in proposals that would have made us feel better but does not retain our Championship status. Just tell me in simple terms how we could have guaranteed that we would not have been shat on from a great height and whilst you are at it tell me how 95% of the teams in the Scottish leagues could avoid being in the same position. It's a bit like ,say,when Bannigan is constantly fouled throughout a game and has a perfectly good goal chopped off and finally after yet another foul stands up and lamps the offending player.We love it,he feels better and then he gets sent off and we lose the game.Was it worth it? I think not. Same situation here, short term gratification for no gain. I get what you say and largely agree. The fact is however, under the SPFL rules, the Clubs voted NO to their resolution until Dundee were bribed into changing their vote. Unlikely a re-vote now would change things, but you never know- there might be another Club (s) out there who would have a pang of morality and change from Yes to No. If nothing else another vote would piss the SPFL off ,keep the matter in the public eye, thus emphasising what a fck up the first vote was and prolonging their discomfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: If they do go for a 14 team league, it could be that Hearts will still go down, giving Dundee the 3rd promotion spot, so really pissing off Ayr( would be delicious) and still relegate us and Stranraer. Not when Ann Budge is coming up with the plan. Her only objective is to see Hearts avoid relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Just now, Dick Dastardly said: Not when Ann Budge is coming up with the plan. Her only objective is to see Hearts avoid relegation. Indeed. And the dirty deals become even more transparent when they dont relegate Hearts, but still relegate Thistle and Stranraer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 Funny how it's 11-1 in the premiership when it suits them but 75% for the last debacle - reprehensible slimy c*nts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 21 minutes ago, Emsca said: Who came up with this 11-1 and 75% rule and could it not be changed ? If the clubs agreed to it , tried before for reconstruction and I think they were trying to change it to a 9-3 vote but it was defeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 25 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said: If they do go for a 14 team league, it could be that Hearts will still go down, giving Dundee the 3rd promotion spot, so really pissing off Ayr( would be delicious) and still relegate us and Stranraer. I’m sure Anne Budge will definitely put that proposal forward not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 It is clear the SPFL is not fit for purpose. A system where member Clubs get to vote on resolutions is riddled with flaws and open to abuse,as we have clearly seen. time and time again There is an overriding ( and understandable ) pressure on Clubs to vote for their own self interest, rather than what is the correct or best decision for Scottish football as a whole. I think the whole system needs a complete re-think and overhaul. Appoint an independent firm of Management Consultants on a five year contract- they would make all the decisions with no input from the Clubs. No Club representation. Basically a dictatorship. The Clubs would hate it, especially Celtic, but taking influence and the spectre of self interest out of the process might, just might , benefit the game in Scotland. Appreciate it would be difficult to find an" independent" firm in this country!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) I think one of the obstacles to a "temporary change to the league structure" (directly quoted from Anne Budge) is that it puts a lot of pressure on clubs in the new season. Take St Mirren for example. Now safe from relegation, and under normal circumstances the following season would have one automatic relegation and one play-off. If the restructuring was only for one season then they would face a season with at least three relegation places. And the same goes for Hamilton, Ross County, St Johnstone, virtually every club in the Championship etc etc. That's going to be a hard sell. Completely agree with Emsca. Particularly in this instance, when the season was called this became a competitive football rather than an administrative issue. Things that should have been decided on a football pitch were instead decided by votes. The SPFL system in not fit for purpose in this situation as it actually encourages inequity, by favouring a solution which loads the greatest burden on the smallest number of clubs. The application of the system has been shockingly badly handled, but our real problem is the system itself, and we are a part of that. Edited April 17, 2020 by allyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Emsca said: I get what you say and largely agree. The fact is however, under the SPFL rules, the Clubs voted NO to their resolution until Dundee were bribed into changing their vote. Unlikely a re-vote now would change things, but you never know- there might be another Club (s) out there who would have a pang of morality and change from Yes to No. If nothing else another vote would piss the SPFL off ,keep the matter in the public eye, thus emphasising what a fck up the first vote was and prolonging their discomfort. Dundee should have voted no , if they had the SPFL would have had to set different resolutions to sort things out ,their chairman has been incredibly naive getting into bed with Doncaster, Lawwell and Co . for at this moment there is absolutely nothing to benefit Dundee FC I personally don’t see any change happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, allyo said: I think one of the obstacles to a "temporary change to the league structure" (directly quoted from Anne Budge) is that it puts a lot of pressure on clubs in the new season. Take St Mirren for example. Now safe from relegation, and under normal circumstances the following season would have one automatic relegation and one play-off. If the restructuring was only for one season then they would face a season with at least three relegation places. And the same goes for Hamilton, Ross County, St Johnstone, virtually every club in the Championship etc etc. That's going to be a hard sell. You’re right , didn’t think of that scenario if you take on board what you’re saying and the financial aspect of the provincial clubs , I can’t see it happening. It’s all down to self interest, Sporting Integrity my arse . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 With no Rangers in the top league there was an ideal opportunity to bin the 11-1 cartel that gives the OF total power on league reconstruction. The clubs had a vote and Ross County & St Mirren voted against making the changes. Opportunity missed. “Clubs in favour had proposed altering the required majority for changes in league structure from 11-1 to 9-3.” https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/22151308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West of Scotland Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 The vote to change the SPL voting structure was in 2012 whilst Rangers were in the wilderness; it was Aberdeen that shat the bed and decided to keep the leagues balls in the Old Firm's hands. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/moves-to-change-spl-voting-structure-1393897 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannygaruk Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 I dont really do blogs so first time so go easy. Tbh we have been terrible but how we can be relegated with 1 game in hand is beyond me. Looking through all promotion and relegation candidates as they stand if everyone caught up on any games against the auto promoted and relegated teams only Thistle are the only team that have the ability to catch up so we have been shafted. Thistle should be allowed to simply play either their next league match or if that would be a dead rubber a playoff with QOS. QOS should simply get a small loan till then less than money owed to tide over and then the rest on the outcome. Then we cant complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 (edited) Just a point of clarity as my earlier rough figures were overstated, I have now checked the legal documents, and whilst I understand there is more to it than prize money, I checked the distributions - the 42nd club get 0.18% of the total. Using the logic of the distributions matrix, 43rd would get 0.17 and 44th would get 0.16. That means 0.33% differential by expanding by two clubs, which is 0.008% per club - to save the embarrassment and bring the matter to a close. Or as a price for their league victory, Celtic/1st could take 13.07% instead of 13.4%, which would still be 3.5% more than second placed. Of course, potentially you don't even have to do any of the above, as £425,000 is saved by there being no relegation from SPL for one season. (£300k in first season and £125k in second season) I don't disagree with those saying there are other considerations (OF games etc) but live in hope there can be an outbreak of commonsense and people may wish to agree to the path of least resistance to try to heal division in the game. Edited April 17, 2020 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 1 minute ago, jaf said: live in hope there can be an outbreak of commonsense and people may wish to agree to the path of least resistance to try to heal division in the game. We can only hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, West of Scotland said: The vote to change the SPL voting structure was in 2012 whilst Rangers were in the wilderness; it was Aberdeen that shat the bed and decided to keep the leagues balls in the Old Firm's hands. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/moves-to-change-spl-voting-structure-1393897 Read the link I posted. 2012 was a proposal. It progressed to a vote in 2013. County & St Mirren voted against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West of Scotland Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said: Read the link I posted. 2012 was a proposal. It progressed to a vote in 2013. County & St Mirren voted against it. You're right. Don't know why Aberdeen voted against it, and then were "angry" about it not being passed the next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 EFL clubs have received an email this morning saying they are hoping to restart training on May 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebaldie Posted April 17, 2020 Report Share Posted April 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, Dannygaruk said: I dont really do blogs so first time so go easy. Tbh we have been terrible but how we can be relegated with 1 game in hand is beyond me. Looking through all promotion and relegation candidates as they stand if everyone caught up on any games against the auto promoted and relegated teams only Thistle are the only team that have the ability to catch up so we have been shafted. Thistle should be allowed to simply play either their next league match or if that would be a dead rubber a playoff with QOS. QOS should simply get a small loan till then less than money owed to tide over and then the rest on the outcome. Then we cant complain. I agree, suggested this a few pages pages back. Especially if any of the remaining 2019/20 Premiership games do go ahead somehow, we can argue that we have been constructively denied the opportunity to play our 'game in hand' to bring us up to 28 games that most of Championship teams have played. In fact, a provision could have been made to fulfill all the unplayed matches up to the 28 game mark in the the three lower leagues. For example, Ayr might have moved ahead of Dundee and . Arbroath had 2 games unplayed and could have hit 42 points and third place. Whether we've been rotten this season or we 'deserve to go down' is irrelevant. The more I think about it, I still can't believe this has been allowed to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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