Dick Dastardly Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: If you add the abstentions as a No it’s almost 36%. I’m sure this is going to run and run No. It is still 30%. There needed to be 75% of the 42 clubs to vote YES for this to pass and only 30% voted YES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 hours ago, fenski said: I don't actually think the organisation structure of the health authority has anything to do with it. Bluetooth is used because it is about being in close proximity to someone else that matters, not absolute location. Also bear in mind GPS doesn't work indoors or wherever you don't have line of sight to the sky. I'm retty sure all contact tracing/ proximity detection solutions will depend on Bluetooth. https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200415-covid-19-could-bluetooth-contact-tracing-end-lockdown-early The structure of the organisation matters in how you configure the application to get the data it needs to be useful. The thing that drives contac tracing a positive test result from a lab. In this case its virology tests and in the Scottish NHS we operate regional virus labs. The West of Scotland one is within NHSGG&C. The lab result is recorded against the patient identifier (CHI in Scotland) so the application needs in Scotland to take results from different lab systems and using different patient identifiers from England and Wales. That means we can't just use the UK one it'll need reconfigured once it works in England for Scottish use. Having had a bit more chance to read about Norway @Norgethistle is right that Norway use Bluetooth. They did originally want to use GPS but Apple didn't allow that as it meant storing data centrally on the movement of people. The EU have also insisted now that EU countries use Bluetooth. South Korea and China from what I can read have the best technology approach to the problem but they have chosen to care less about infringing people's privacy. However Singapore is I think the furthest ahead with the Bluetooth approach but struggling to get 30% uptake and are still struggling to control the spread of the virus. The bluetooth application is a bit of a red herring when it comes to contact tracing. The real thing thats needed in that arena is phone calls to people who have tested positive, identify who they've been in contact with, test them and then repeat. We were doing that in Scotland but the numbers became overwhelming. The Scottish Government are now trying to spin up the staff to do this as another strand towards redcucing lockdown restrictions but as far as I know the England are not pursuing that and are instead placing all their trust in the app. This is even stranger when you consider England have reduced their lockdown restrictions but don't have a working app yet. If I was being cynical I would suggest the reason Boris has reduced the lockdown in England is not that they have stopped the spread but that lockdown bought a few months of time to get ventialators built and they now see spare capacity in the ICU's. They will be taking a political gamble that as long as folk see they can get access to a ventilator that the public will be ok with the increase in deaths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 24 minutes ago, laukat said: The structure of the organisation matters in how you configure the application to get the data it needs to be useful. The thing that drives contac tracing a positive test result from a lab. In this case its virology tests and in the Scottish NHS we operate regional virus labs. The West of Scotland one is within NHSGG&C. The lab result is recorded against the patient identifier (CHI in Scotland) so the application needs in Scotland to take results from different lab systems and using different patient identifiers from England and Wales. That means we can't just use the UK one it'll need reconfigured once it works in England for Scottish use. Having had a bit more chance to read about Norway @Norgethistle is right that Norway use Bluetooth. They did originally want to use GPS but Apple didn't allow that as it meant storing data centrally on the movement of people. The EU have also insisted now that EU countries use Bluetooth. South Korea and China from what I can read have the best technology approach to the problem but they have chosen to care less about infringing people's privacy. However Singapore is I think the furthest ahead with the Bluetooth approach but struggling to get 30% uptake and are still struggling to control the spread of the virus. The bluetooth application is a bit of a red herring when it comes to contact tracing. The real thing thats needed in that arena is phone calls to people who have tested positive, identify who they've been in contact with, test them and then repeat. We were doing that in Scotland but the numbers became overwhelming. The Scottish Government are now trying to spin up the staff to do this as another strand towards redcucing lockdown restrictions but as far as I know the England are not pursuing that and are instead placing all their trust in the app. This is even stranger when you consider England have reduced their lockdown restrictions but don't have a working app yet. If I was being cynical I would suggest the reason Boris has reduced the lockdown in England is not that they have stopped the spread but that lockdown bought a few months of time to get ventialators built and they now see spare capacity in the ICU's. They will be taking a political gamble that as long as folk see they can get access to a ventilator that the public will be ok with the increase in deaths. All i can say is i won't be downloading any tracing app, don't trust those ******* one bit as to what else they will be snooping in on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said: prepare to be surprised. Not surprised at the outcome at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, Pinhead said: All i can say is i won't be downloading any tracing app, don't trust those ******* one bit as to what else they will be snooping in on. I just hope they have good anti-virus software imbedded in the app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, jaf said: that's what we are supposed to have - and the members wont be any different, so how is the representation going to change? do you honestly think some football chairs are good guys, and some are wanks, and just by changing the people the world is a different place without changing the rules around how they operate? will your board be elected under the current articles? changed articles? how many on board? from what divisions? how are board members selected/elected? whats the voting structure - does it stay the same? to eliminate self interest you need fundamental structural change, not shuffling a few people around Yes I know it is what we are supposed to have - but clearly we do not have that - hence why change is required . You asked what the vision would be and I gave you that . You did not ask for a step by step guide as to how in practice that would be achieved and frankly I am not qualified or knowledgable enough to comment on that . What I do know is that change is needed and your attitude that we should not seek change because it might cause disruption and not be an improvement on what is already in place , is, in my view, defeatist . It is also the attitude that the current regime relies upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just watched video of Bayern Munich training normally today ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Norgethistle said: Only 1 championship team voted for it Not sure that makes sense. As Hearts are not yet relegated but Utd promoted there should be 13 Premiership teams and only 9 Championship teams, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Pinhead said: All i can say is i won't be downloading any tracing app, don't trust those ******* one bit as to what else they will be snooping in on. And therein lies the real reason that a tech based approach to this will fail. It is at odds with the culture and attitudes to privacy people tend to have in old western economies. There is a much better chance of success in countries where people are more comfortable with digital identity management. I'm thinking of places like Estonia, Finland etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 34 minutes ago, javeajag said: Just watched video of Bayern Munich training normally today ! How was the video of Dresden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, sandy said: How was the video of Dresden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Not sure that makes sense. As Hearts are not yet relegated but Utd promoted there should be 13 Premiership teams and only 9 Championship teams, I think. I think because the premier is not ended yet , Hearts are still a premier league team and Dundee Utd will still be a championship team. Because lower leagues are now finished we would be in league 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledjag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Peaty FC said: Probably more abstract accounting. I think the figure of 13 for was perhaps higher than I thought might have been the case. Most as before voting as "I'm all right Jack". Murdoch MacLennans remarks ; "I have taken careful note of the concerns expressed by the minority of clubs which voted in favour and when we are back to playing football in a safe environment, I will bring clubs together to discuss the lessons learned. Aye right! Where's the edge of the carpet? Love your comment! Captures the tone precisely! Will be surprised if he does anything other than make sure he gets his revenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 41 minutes ago, javeajag said: And Dresden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, sandy said: And Dresden? Don’t you know ? ill help you out ....playing 26/27 May Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 12, 2020 Report Share Posted May 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Emsca said: Yes I know it is what we are supposed to have - but clearly we do not have that - hence why change is required . You asked what the vision would be and I gave you that . You did not ask for a step by step guide as to how in practice that would be achieved and frankly I am not qualified or knowledgable enough to comment on that . What I do know is that change is needed and your attitude that we should not seek change because it might cause disruption and not be an improvement on what is already in place , is, in my view, defeatist . It is also the attitude that the current regime relies upon. One mans defeatist is another mans realist. I said the requisitioners needed to demonstrate what would be the other side of all this and then they may gather more support. They failed. Had they articulated what life after this board looked like perhaps they would still have failed and perhaps they wouldnt. But by not doing it, we can agree as it’s a matter of fact, they definitely failed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 12 hours ago, Auld Jag said: I think because the premier is not ended yet , Hearts are still a premier league team and Dundee Utd will still be a championship team. Because lower leagues are now finished we would be in league 1. So did either us or ICT not vote for the inquiry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 from an article in the economist ....reinforces the premier 45% match day revenue point.... Will closed-door events be commercially viable? Most leading sports rely on three sources of revenue: match-day sales, broadcasting rights and sponsorship. All will be depleted. Empty stands will wipe out match-day revenue, with no fans to buy tickets, merchandise, pints or pies. For the biggest leagues this loss will be manageable; teams in England’s Premier League (the world’s richest football league) took in only 14% of their revenue on match days in the 2017-18 season, according to Deloitte, a consultancy. Smaller leagues lacking large television audiences will struggle, though. Clubs in the Scottish Premiership, for instance, relied on match-day sales for 45% of their revenue that season. The future of broadcasters’ fees, which bring the biggest sports most of their income, is less clear. Uncertain about when and in what form fixtures will return, broadcasters are reluctant to pay up. Sky, DAZN and IMG, three media companies, have already withheld €220m ($238m) from Serie A, Italy’s top football league. The Premier League stands to lose £750m ($910m) in rights fees if the season does not resume, and at least £300m even if it does, because broadcasters will have missed their preferred time slots. Fixtures that go ahead may not meet broadcasters’ expectations in other ways. Stefan Kürten, the director of Eurovision Sport, the sports arm of the European Broadcasting Union, has stipulated that the participation of top athletes will determine the value of rearranged events. When Nick Kyrgios, an Australian tennis star, was asked recently if he would play in a grand slam without fans, he replied: “100% no.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 31 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: So did either us or ICT not vote for the inquiry We both did. ICT as a Championship team and us as a League One team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 Not for the first time, rather confused about this. I'm sure I heard a club chairman on a recent Sportsound explain that when a team is promoted or relegated their voting rights remain in the league they are about to leave/enter until a ball is kicked in the new season. If that's the case then Thistle and DUFC will have been counted as a Championship club, Hearts a Premiership club etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, javeajag said: from an article in the economist ....reinforces the premier 45% match day revenue point.... Will closed-door events be commercially viable? Most leading sports rely on three sources of revenue: match-day sales, broadcasting rights and sponsorship. All will be depleted. Empty stands will wipe out match-day revenue, with no fans to buy tickets, merchandise, pints or pies. For the biggest leagues this loss will be manageable; teams in England’s Premier League (the world’s richest football league) took in only 14% of their revenue on match days in the 2017-18 season, according to Deloitte, a consultancy. Smaller leagues lacking large television audiences will struggle, though. Clubs in the Scottish Premiership, for instance, relied on match-day sales for 45% of their revenue that season. The future of broadcasters’ fees, which bring the biggest sports most of their income, is less clear. Uncertain about when and in what form fixtures will return, broadcasters are reluctant to pay up. Sky, DAZN and IMG, three media companies, have already withheld €220m ($238m) from Serie A, Italy’s top football league. The Premier League stands to lose £750m ($910m) in rights fees if the season does not resume, and at least £300m even if it does, because broadcasters will have missed their preferred time slots. Fixtures that go ahead may not meet broadcasters’ expectations in other ways. Stefan Kürten, the director of Eurovision Sport, the sports arm of the European Broadcasting Union, has stipulated that the participation of top athletes will determine the value of rearranged events. When Nick Kyrgios, an Australian tennis star, was asked recently if he would play in a grand slam without fans, he replied: “100% no.” This is a copy and paste that I do approve of. I will no doubt read this in the economist if my wife ever finishes this weeks as I get it ‘second hand’ Interesting piece and shoes the scale of challenge ahead. Edited May 13, 2020 by jaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, jaf said: This is a copy and paste that I do approve of. I will no doubt read this in the economist if my wife ever finishes this weeks as I get it ‘second hand’ Interesting piece and shoes the scale of challenge ahead. It’s hard to see football with fans in July - even in England - and the costs of playing behind closed doors seems prohibitive here so it’s nit clear how the spfl hope to have football back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 Amiens SC are taking the French league (LFP) to court after they were relegated when the French season ended early. https://www.besoccer.com/new/amiens-launch-legal-battle-after-unjust-ligue-1-relegation-833483 I'll be following the story. Not sure if it would set a precedent for us as it is going through french courts, but the outcome will be interesting. The other relegated french team, Toulouse, have asked for all french players to go on strike. Bonne chance avec ça Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, javeajag said: It’s hard to see football with fans in July - even in England - and the costs of playing behind closed doors seems prohibitive here so it’s nit clear how the spfl hope to have football back then There’s no chance of fans being back in the grounds at least till the end of the year, we’re getting told Hospitality won’t be open on a reduced level till October after schools etc are back . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsca Posted May 13, 2020 Report Share Posted May 13, 2020 10 hours ago, jaf said: One mans defeatist is another mans realist. I said the requisitioners needed to demonstrate what would be the other side of all this and then they may gather more support. They failed. Had they articulated what life after this board looked like perhaps they would still have failed and perhaps they wouldnt. But by not doing it, we can agree as it’s a matter of fact, they definitely failed That is your interpretation and as you say it is fatctual that they failed. I still maintain the following: 1) There is no requirement for an SPFL governing body. The SFA could do their job, 2) The Officials who work for the SFA are grossly overpaid. 3) The SPFL Board are at best inept but more likely corrupt . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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