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lady-isobel-barnett

Away to Arbroath

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Makes me really wonder why the bunnet was a complete failure at thistle, no doubting his managerial qualities, yet he was a disaster at thistle.  He should have been an ideal fit and I wonder what his take was at the time!!

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6 hours ago, Jimmy McD said:

Having watched the replay of the game a few times  Just thinking at the 3rd goal did Harry Stone have a senior moment and think that we were playing in Maroon as Hearts do and kick the ball to he thought was a teammate..

That thought went through my head also .

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5 hours ago, Anniesland Jag said:

That thought went through my head also .

Never thought about it like that. At the game my impression was Stone decided to play the ball out. He put the ball on to his weaker foot and that was primarily the cause of the misplaced pass. In a way playing the ball out was preferable to the too common lump up the park. He could have whacked it aimlessly away with his right foot and we'd only be talking about the one keeper error with the free kick. 

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22 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

 

Still feel that Murray should've started if only to take pressure off Tiffoney and give the team a bit more balance. When you factor in that Hastie will shortly be on the scene you've gotta wonder about how far down the pecking order Murray will be.

I'm curious about this too.. Murray is now well down the list, so much so I wonder if IMC is getting ready to swap him for a defender/defensive midfielder........  what's the point in having him if MacIver (who I think is an out and out striker who cannot play wide) gets ahead of him.... 

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7 hours ago, Anniesland Jag said:

That thought went through my head also .

Another type of senior moment takes the form of wandering around and getting lost...... Stone certainly didn't appear to know where he was in relation to his near post for the first Lichties goal.

Worrying.

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2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Never thought about it like that. At the game my impression was Stone decided to play the ball out. He put the ball on to his weaker foot and that was primarily the cause of the misplaced pass. In a way playing the ball out was preferable to the too common lump up the park. He could have whacked it aimlessly away with his right foot and we'd only be talking about the one keeper error with the free kick. 

Sneddon gets hounded every time he makes a mistake in a match, even if the mistake has no serious consequences. Stone cost us the match at Arbroath with two howlers that a junior league keeper would be unlikely to make. Needs dropped. Otherwise, where's the "competition for places" that people (including the manager) go on about?

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3 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

Sneddon gets hounded every time he makes a mistake in a match, even if the mistake has no serious consequences. Stone cost us the match at Arbroath with two howlers that a junior league keeper would be unlikely to make. Needs dropped. Otherwise, where's the "competition for places" that people (including the manager) go on about?

My guess is he will be forgiven and in goal on Saturday because he is “highly rated” But he can’t afford another performance like that otherwise IMC will have a goalkeeping problem. Hopefully it was one bad performance never to be repeated - but it was really bad! 

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The distribution from defence, including the keeper was woeful - just too slow and predictable. Stone was bad, but I was especially disappointed in Mayo, who I would've thought would be a ball playing centre back. Was it because he had too few options in front of him? Was it the lure of Rudden and Graham further up the pitch?

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4 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Never thought about it like that. At the game my impression was Stone decided to play the ball out. He put the ball on to his weaker foot and that was primarily the cause of the misplaced pass. In a way playing the ball out was preferable to the too common lump up the park. He could have whacked it aimlessly away with his right foot and we'd only be talking about the one keeper error with the free kick. 

The problem with this is that when the keeper (Stone or Sneddon) decide to play the ball out, it usually results in a defender lumping the ball up the park. Unless we have defenders who are either more accurate in lumping, or can lump it further, what is the point ? Better to play safe and lump it the first time.

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1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The problem with this is that when the keeper (Stone or Sneddon) decide to play the ball out, it usually results in a defender lumping the ball up the park. Unless we have defenders who are either more accurate in lumping, or can lump it further, what is the point ? Better to play safe and lump it the first time.

Agree entirely that it's pointless a goalie doing the right thing if defenders are ponderous on the ball and everything is carried out in slo-mo. It's up to the manager to work on that.

I actually think I've seen signs of improvement tho' not very evident on Saturday. The punt over the top to the front one or two should come as an unexpected ploy not as routine. 

Re the Stone/Sneddon thingy it has to be minded they're both young in goalie terms. I'd have preferred we had gone down the Hinchcliffe/Gallagher route and had experience for back up. That of course may not have been possible but I feel there's too much a risk of having both goalies lacking form and confidence at the same time. Part of me thinks that dropping Stone after one shocker may be a kneejerk reaction, part of me feels that our own goalie should get preference over a loanee.

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On 8/21/2021 at 11:58 PM, CillitB4ng said:

Was it being big or black that made him a handful? I know which one it wasn't so why mention it? 

Have you ever described Brian Graham as our big white centre forward?

Why do us guys over 6' have to always be described as big this or big that. Why does our height have to come into it ? Some of us may be conscious of our height and take offense.

I thought we were over all that when South Africa got rid of apart-height

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3 hours ago, JAG1970 said:

My guess is he will be forgiven and in goal on Saturday because he is “highly rated” But he can’t afford another performance like that otherwise IMC will have a goalkeeping problem. Hopefully it was one bad performance never to be repeated - but it was really bad! 

Totally agreed.

My point is that Sneddon doesn't get the chance to atone for one bad performance never to be repeated, but a loanee who's just just a disaster of a performance will be preferred to one of our own players. It happens so many times. Is our main purpose to do what's best for us, or is it to nurture "big" teams' players first and foremost?

I'm aware that this line of thought could be applied to our own players who are out on loan to lower league clubs.

Basically, for me,  a loan is something  you need and use when you don't have it; to tide you over. You use it, then you return it. It isn't something that you keep using even if it's turning out to be of little use. We've had more than a few loanee players "of little use," and I hope we don't blow our chances of promotion again by prioritizing those big teams' players over our own.

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15 hours ago, sb1876 said:

Makes me really wonder why the bunnet was a complete failure at thistle, no doubting his managerial qualities, yet he was a disaster at thistle.  He should have been an ideal fit and I wonder what his take was at the time!!

Even spent good money buying  a black bunnet (and one for my bro) at no little expense when DC took over. It's now probably moth-eaten up in my brother's loft.

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4 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

Sneddon gets hounded every time he makes a mistake in a match, even if the mistake has no serious consequences. Stone cost us the match at Arbroath with two howlers that a junior league keeper would be unlikely to make. Needs dropped. Otherwise, where's the "competition for places" that people (including the manager) go on about?

The problem for Sneddon is that he gets slated even when he doesn't make a mistake. The best example being the Dunfermline game at the start of the season. 

He is a goalie that needs to improve but if he ever put in a performance like Stone on Saturday I suspect half of this forum would spontaneously combust. 

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8 minutes ago, Muscat Jag said:

The problem for Sneddon is that he gets slated even when he doesn't make a mistake. The best example being the Dunfermline game at the start of the season. 

He is a goalie that needs to improve but if he ever put in a performance like Stone on Saturday I suspect half of this forum would spontaneously combust. 

This.

But the question is, Why?

He played no little part in our title winning campaign last season; he comes up with great reaction saves  regularly, and his kick-outs have never resulted in the kind of catastrophe that we saw at Arbroath on Saturday. Yet some folk will still want Stone to play instead of Sneddon next week.

But hey, many Jags fans criticized Roughie week in, week out, so clearly the old adage stands: you can never please everybody (in fact even if you're generally popular, some people will hate you, as I know from decades of teaching).

Edited by Jaggernaut
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I have never got this playing the ball around at the back. I noticed a few teams during the recent Euro's getting caught out doing it. A goalie and all the outfield players job is to stop the opposition scoring. Get it up into the opponent's half or row Z.

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It worked very well in the Championship winning season where ATS or SOD were always available for an outball and could carry the ball down the flank to start an attack.

Not sure we have the same quality of player at wingback this time round.

Edited by Dick Dastardly

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Against QOS we were lucky a few times not to lose a goal from playing the ball around at the back. Roy missed an absolute sitter on one of these occasions. Unless we are 3 or more goals up, i would rather we just got rid of the ball into the opposition's half.

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2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

I have never got this playing the ball around at the back. I noticed a few teams during the recent Euro's getting caught out doing it. A goalie and all the outfield players job is to stop the opposition scoring. Get it up into the opponent's half or row Z.

Disagree. We look our best when pass through the team. Long ball punt it up the park tactics play in to the hands of teams like Arbroath.

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1 hour ago, fenski said:

Disagree. We look our best when pass through the team. Long ball punt it up the park tactics play in to the hands of teams like Arbroath.

There is passing through the team, and pissing about at the back. If there’s no clear pass, row Z or punt it deep

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37 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

There is passing through the team, and pissing about at the back. If there’s no clear pass, row Z or punt it deep

Correct - I play in goals for a 35s team (amongst others) and we got pumped 6-0 in a friendly on Friday night  - manager is intent on playing it out from the back but my back 4 play with their boot laces tied together - five of the goals came from them arsing about and losing it either in the box or on the D - there comes a time when you have to just empty it 60 yards up the park and hope you get someone in your crew making a challenge for it

Edited by gianlucatoni
none of the goals wer my fault btw - they even voted me motm - shows you how bad they are!

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9 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

The problem with this is that when the keeper (Stone or Sneddon) decide to play the ball out, it usually results in a defender lumping the ball up the park. Unless we have defenders who are either more accurate in lumping, or can lump it further, what is the point ? Better to play safe and lump it the first time.

That got me thinking that these days there doesn't seem to be much use of the quick, long throw-out from a keeper to set up a fast counter-attack. 

I seem to remember that Tuffey  was pretty good at that. 

Maybe these days keepers are much more cautious and that translates into slowness. A "quick throw-out" these days usually amounts to rolling the ball a couple of yards to the nearest defender, who will then, as described above, most likely lump it up the park.

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19 minutes ago, policemans whistle said:

As Arbroath play in maroon  do you think Stone thought he was passing it out to a Hearts player!

 

You are not the first. see Sunday at 09:29 PM in this thread.

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31 minutes ago, policemans whistle said:

As Arbroath play in maroon  do you think Stone thought he was passing it out to a Hearts player!

 

Or maybe, if he has a Heart of Stone, he did it deliberately.

Edited by Jaggernaut

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