McCall Sacked

[Dick Dastardly]

2 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I agree with this. Although, we had 20 points after 10 games and were top. We didn’t get to 23 until the 16th game, which took us from 7th back to 5th. Some people will look at that split and think it is even worse. But since that 10th game have we played a game when we haven’t had at least 2 key players missing ? 

By the same argument you could say it was foolish for McCall to bank all his resources on the same 11 starting every week. We need to assume that McCall had accepted the challenge that he had been given and it was looking increasingly unlikely that he was going to achieve them. If he didn’t allow for injuries over the season then he made his own bed

[Dick Dastardly]

5 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Not giving the supporters much of a lift so far. No doubt, there will be a great turnout on Saturday,though.

My optimism has been boosted hugely now that McCall is gone 

[jlsarmy]

8 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I agree with this. Although, we had 20 points after 10 games and were top. We didn’t get to 23 until the 16th game, which took us from 7th back to 5th. Some people will look at that split and think it is even worse. But since that 10th game have we played a game when we haven’t had at least 2 key players missing ? 

Is that not why you have a pool of players, you’re always going to get injuries and suspensions at a football club . Should it not be how you cope with these circumstances, working with the players you’ve got available, changing systems and tactics to get a result .

This season we’ve seem to collapse when we’ve got a few players missing, is that down to recruitment ?

[Lenziejag]

7 hours ago, sabbath said:

We must raise the bar. "The play offs" with the pool we have at Firhill we should have walked this league, this highlighted only to well, as a manager McCall had No motivational talent what so ever. We must raise our expectations, back door through the play offs to be the whipping boys amongst all the other bottom feeders. Not for me kid. To be consistently qualifying for European football should be our ultimate aim. Ashamedly McCall and the pigeon before him were only to interested in receiving a wage at the end of the week. Scottish football is glorified Junior stuff, a half decent team should easily be a contender for European football.     

As for respect McCall should without question have been sacked after the Falkirk game, and his shameful comments he made. The board apparently implied that if he had pulled off a Darvel against the H*ns he still had a job and all that after the Hamilton & Cove debacle. This is now the time for our new board to show their metal and appoint a proper Owen Coyle manager. (or equivalent)       

We have no money.

[Dick Dastardly]

7 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

We have no money.

A challenge for the board to address. As supporters we should not be accepting mediocrity as the norm 

[ThickAsThieves]

7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

As Ive said we miss out on a Play Off Spot -the Board Resigns 

Nonsense. The board make decisions - not all of them will be the correct ones but they’ll be made with the best intentions.

You keep saying “one point off the playoffs with a third of the season to go is a sackable offence” as if it shouldn’t be. With this budget and squad, 5th place after two thirds of the season with rank home defeats to Hamilton and Cove Rangers (who we’ve still never beaten ffs) unfortunately probably is a sackable offence.

I have strong doubts on whether Doolan is the right man, but they clearly believe at this stage McCall isn’t. He’s a capable Championship manager, has steadied the ship in both spells as manager and I thank him for that, but I agree he wouldn’t get us promoted. We’re gambling that Doolan has at least a chance of that, on the assumption that it’s low risk as we’re unlikely to get relegated. Good luck to him. 
 

[Lenziejag]

15 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

By the same argument you could say it was foolish for McCall to bank all his resources on the same 11 starting every week. We need to assume that McCall had accepted the challenge that he had been given and it was looking increasingly unlikely that he was going to achieve them. If he didn’t allow for injuries over the season then he made his own bed

The squad at the start of the season looked a lot stronger than last season and I think most of us were surprised that the 2nd string weren’t as good as we thought. We have had a lot of injuries for a long period of time, but there are 39 points to play for, we are only 9 points behind Dundee and have to play them twice. It looks like we are free of those injuries. The objective is still attainable. I think this is a huge gamble by the board, if the reasons they have given are the real reasons.

[Lenziejag]

19 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Is that not why you have a pool of players, you’re always going to get injuries and suspensions at a football club . Should it not be how you cope with these circumstances, working with the players you’ve got available, changing systems and tactics to get a result .

This season we’ve seem to collapse when we’ve got a few players missing, is that down to recruitment ?

I don’t disagree with any of this. The point I have been making is that he is sacked just when it looks like we have a full strength squad again. That doesn’t make sense.

[Dick Dastardly]

25 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

The squad at the start of the season looked a lot stronger than last season and I think most of us were surprised that the 2nd string weren’t as good as we thought. We have had a lot of injuries for a long period of time, but there are 39 points to play for, we are only 9 points behind Dundee and have to play them twice. It looks like we are free of those injuries. The objective is still attainable. I think this is a huge gamble by the board, if the reasons they have given are the real reasons.

You say that as if “it’s not McCall’s fault that the 2nd string weren’t as good as we thought” He recruited them for the targets he was set. He should have known.

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Like Archie or Jackie Mac?

Every management change is a gamble, and as I stated I would have given him the Ayr game to see whether the change in performance was due to management or playing in front of 45000.

So we have things clear - the reason for the sacking was as follows 

The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective.

Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect.

However the target and budget were set by the previous Board ? We do not Know the discussions nor if the Budget was adequate ( we do know TJF had to provide funds for a Player Contract extension ) 

But if we follow the statement - the Management Team were sacked as it was viewed that the Previous Boards Primary Promotion Objective was not going to be met  - Yet Alan Rough stated the Club Budgeted to finish Second ? So what was the target - Promotion or Second 

The Current Board have stated the Manager was given adequate funds to achieve this - Alan Rough stated that the Rangers Game Revenue wiped out any deficit - But the Club issued a Statement AFTER the Rangers Game saying there were " significant challenges" on the Budgets 

So on one hand the Current Board are stating the previous Board Targets of Promotion and associated Budget were accurate - then it is revealed we Budgeted for finishing Second - then we are told the Rangers Game wiped out the deficit by Alan Rough  - But the Current Board say it doesn't

So the Management Team are sacked based on whose target - whose Budget - the Previous Board ( where the Target was actually Second ? ) The Previous Board where the Rangers Game Wiped out the Deficit ? On one hand the previous Boards assertions are OK for dismissal - yet on the other hand there are statements on Finances in direct contradiction - and even TJF have questioned them 

So if there are a raft of assumptions being questioned by TJF on the previous Boards Statements - why is it being accepted that the previous Boards Target of Promotion ( now changed to second place by AR ) and the associated Budget was adequate - which part of the Budgeting are TJF OK with ?      

If as being suggested in the Press that the decision was made before the Rangers Game - what happened if we Won ? What happened if Morton got Beat ? There seemed a determination that the previous Management Teams time was up 

Plus the norm is wait for the Monday - yet the News was delivered straight after an afternoon in the Rangers Boardroom - why not wait a day - why the desperate rush ? 

Kenny Arthur's Contract was also terminated ( albeit he is working his notice ) I've never seen a GK Coach dismissed as part of the Management Team + why not announce it ? Is this the New Openness in Communications with a Fan Led Board ?    

My concern on Fan Ownership has always been that it ends up as a Glorified Bowling Club with petty squabbles and agendas  - so we have appointed a Manager with Zero Experience - there are  " significant challenges"  on the budgets - Good Luck with both of those   

For what its worth the last time we were promoted - there was No set Target on Promotion - the Target was to run the Club at Break Even - recruit decent Players - Play Good Football - attract Crowds Back - make Matchday Experience an Enjoyable Experience - dont get relegated  - Keep the Non Playing overhead Costs to a minimum - that meant the Team Management did not have a Target Hanging over them every week-  or a budget deficit based on an assumed  finishing position - or be sacked for not meeting " targets" set Months ago  

But Hey Ho - Im obviously out of Sync with the New GroupSpeak of Fan Ownership being sooo Much better than previous set ups  

 

  

 

   

 

 

 

[Jimbo]

56 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So we have things clear - the reason for the sacking was as follows 

The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective.

Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect.

However the target and budget were set by the previous Board ? We do not Know the discussions nor if the Budget was adequate ( we do know TJF had to provide funds for a Player Contract extension ) 

But if we follow the statement - the Management Team were sacked as it was viewed that the Previous Boards Primary Promotion Objective was not going to be met  - Yet Alan Rough stated the Club Budgeted to finish Second ? So what was the target - Promotion or Second 

The Current Board have stated the Manager was given adequate funds to achieve this - Alan Rough stated that the Rangers Game Revenue wiped out any deficit - But the Club issued a Statement AFTER the Rangers Game saying there were " significant challenges" on the Budgets 

So on one hand the Current Board are stating the previous Board Targets of Promotion and associated Budget were accurate - then it is revealed we Budgeted for finishing Second - then we are told the Rangers Game wiped out the deficit by Alan Rough  - But the Current Board say it doesn't

So the Management Team are sacked based on whose target - whose Budget - the Previous Board ( where the Target was actually Second ? ) The Previous Board where the Rangers Game Wiped out the Deficit ? On one hand the previous Boards assertions are OK for dismissal - yet on the other hand there are statements on Finances in direct contradiction - and even TJF have questioned them 

So if there are a raft of assumptions being questioned by TJF on the previous Boards Statements - why is it being accepted that the previous Boards Target of Promotion ( now changed to second place by AR ) and the associated Budget was adequate - which part of the Budgeting are TJF OK with ?      

If as being suggested in the Press that the decision was made before the Rangers Game - what happened if we Won ? What happened if Morton got Beat ? There seemed a determination that the previous Management Teams time was up 

Plus the norm is wait for the Monday - yet the News was delivered straight after an afternoon in the Rangers Boardroom - why not wait a day - why the desperate rush ? 

Kenny Arthur's Contract was also terminated ( albeit he is working his notice ) I've never seen a GK Coach dismissed as part of the Management Team + why not announce it ? Is this the New Openness in Communications with a Fan Led Board ?    

My concern on Fan Ownership has always been that it ends up as a Glorified Bowling Club with petty squabbles and agendas  - so we have appointed a Manager with Zero Experience - there are  " significant challenges"  on the budgets - Good Luck with both of those   

For what its worth the last time we were promoted - there was No set Target on Promotion - the Target was to run the Club at Break Even - recruit decent Players - Play Good Football - attract Crowds Back - make Matchday Experience an Enjoyable Experience - dont get relegated  - Keep the Non Playing overhead Costs to a minimum - that meant the Team Management did not have a Target Hanging over them every week-  or a budget deficit based on an assumed  finishing position - or be sacked for not meeting " targets" set Months ago  

But Hey Ho - Im obviously out of Sync with the New GroupSpeak of Fan Ownership being sooo Much better than previous set ups  

 

  

 

   

 

 

 

JJ, Like Norge I would have reviewed McCall's position after the Ayr game despite the appalling performances against Accies & Cove. I attended both & it was awful.

Personally I liked McCall & your loyalty towards him is admirable but " new groupspeak of fan ownership". Stop digging.

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

16 hours ago, Deboy said:

Has anyone asked Peter Murrell for some money?

Now see what's happened!!!!!

[BowenBoys]

6 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Now see what's happened!!!!!

Has she got her coaching badges?

[Tom Hosie]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

 

But Hey Ho - Im obviously out of Sync with the New GroupSpeak of Fan Ownership being sooo Much better than previous set ups  

 

  

 

   

 

 

 

Out of sync certainly with regard to the position that we are in. 

We are not, at this point in time, a Fan Owned club. Moving towards that certainly, but not there yet. 

There is plenty about the current situation that is of concern but to try and a tie that to fan ownership is miles off the mark. 

[Jordanhill Jag]

54 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

JJ, Like Norge I would have reviewed McCall's position after the Ayr game despite the appalling performances against Accies & Cove. I attended both & it was awful.

Personally I liked McCall & your loyalty towards him is admirable but " new groupspeak of fan ownership". Stop digging.

 

There is nothing I have said concerning the use of Budgets & Targets from the previous Board - with full acceptance that they are accurate & correct by the Current Board to dismiss the Management Team that I believe is incorrect - unless you ( or anyone else ) has info to contradict what Ive said then the basis of dismal ( as stated by the Board ) certianly seems odd 

No we dont have Fan Ownership - we have a Majority on the Board representing Two Fans Groups though - if this was the previous Board-  Im not convinced that there would be such meek acceptance of the recent decisions - but thats just my view 

This has nothing to do with any personal relationship with Ian McCall -  ive pointed out inconsistancies in what appears to be acceptance of the Previous Boards decisions in one element - but not on others     

[Dick Dastardly]

9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There is nothing I have said concerning the use of Budgets & Targets from the previous Board - with full acceptance that they are accurate & correct by the Current Board to dismiss the Management Team that I believe is incorrect - unless you ( or anyone else ) has info to contradict what Ive said then the basis of dismal ( as stated by the Board ) certianly seems odd 

No we dont have Fan Ownership - we have a Majority on the Board representing Two Fans Groups though - if this was the previous Board-  Im not convinced that there would be such meek acceptance of the recent decisions - but thats just my view 

This has nothing to do with any personal relationship with Ian McCall -  ive pointed out inconsistancies in what appears to be acceptance of the Previous Boards decisions in one element - but not on others     

Not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that they have to agree on everything or agree on nothing and that there can be no agreeing on somethings but not on others ? That is a very narrow way of looking at the world.

[Tom Hosie]

9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

There is nothing I have said concerning the use of Budgets & Targets from the previous Board - with full acceptance that they are accurate & correct by the Current Board to dismiss the Management Team that I believe is incorrect - unless you ( or anyone else ) has info to contradict what Ive said then the basis of dismal ( as stated by the Board ) certianly seems odd 

No we dont have Fan Ownership - we have a Majority on the Board rpreseenting Two Fans Groups though - if this was the previous Board-  Im not convinced that there would be such meek acceptance of the recent decisions - but thats just my view 

This has nothing to do with any personal relationship with Ian McCall -  ive pointed out inconsistancies in what appears to be acceptance of the Previous Boards decisions in one element - but not on others     

No we don't. 

TJF nominated Caroline Mackie to sit on the Board, but she is not there acting as a representative of TJF.

She is there as a Director in her own right (and one incidentally have trust in). This is something that TJF were very clear about in their statement in the wake of McCall's dismissal. 

[Tom Hosie]

Just now, Tom Hosie said:

No we don't. 

TJF nominated Caroline Mackie to sit on the Board, but she is not there acting as a representative of TJF.

She is there as a Director in her own right (and one incidentally I have trust in, excellent appointment). This is something that TJF were very clear about in their statement in the wake of McCall's dismissal. 

 

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

You say that as if “it’s not McCall’s fault that the 2nd string weren’t as good as we thought” He recruited them for the targets he was set. He should have known.

If he had known, he wouldn’t have signed them. But again, the main point is being missed. His objective is still attainable. Somebody said we shouldn’t accept mediocrity. I fear that the board are settling for exactly that. They are giving Doolan no chance. Two novices doing the work of 4 experienced people.

[Dick Dastardly]

20 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

If he had known, he wouldn’t have signed them. But again, the main point is being missed. His objective is still attainable. Somebody said we shouldn’t accept mediocrity. I fear that the board are settling for exactly that. They are giving Doolan no chance. Two novices doing the work of 4 experienced people.

He should have known. That is his job.

[Woodstock Jag]

21 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

If he had known, he wouldn’t have signed them. But again, the main point is being missed. His objective is still attainable. Somebody said we shouldn’t accept mediocrity. I fear that the board are settling for exactly that. They are giving Doolan no chance. Two novices doing the work of 4 experienced people.

The assessment of the Club Board is that, with Ian McCall in charge, his objective was no longer attainable.

People might reasonably disagree with that assessment, but it's not one beyond the range of reasonable conclusions a Club Board could draw.

[Jordanhill Jag]

25 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that they have to agree on everything or agree on nothing and that there can be no agreeing on somethings but not on others ? That is a very narrow way of looking at the world.

You cant Cherry Pick Bits of the previous Board on statements regards Promotion Targets and adequate Budgets to suit your argument  - then Question other statements on Finances ? 

Even there statement on the Target being Promotion set by the previous Board is contradicted by AR saying the Budgeted for Second Place 

So What bits are OK - the bits to justify Sackings ? Seems a bit odd given the statement on Financial Challenges in the same Press Release  

[Woodstock Jag]

Jim this really boils down to you think Ian McCall would produce a better league outcome than Kris Doolan.

That's fine. Plenty of people agree with you.

The Club Board disagrees, and clearly thinks McCall should have been doing better given the resources made available to him.

That's their current assessment of the situation, irrespective of whether he was in fact given sufficient resources by the previous Board to meet whatever target he was set, and irrespective of how realistic it was that that target would be met.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Woodstock Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

The assessment of the Club Board is that, with Ian McCall in charge, his objective was no longer attainable.

People might reasonably disagree with that assessment, but it's not one beyond the range of reasonable conclusions a Club Board could draw.

The Objective & the Budget set by the previous Board - which has been accepted by the New Board without Question ( Yet in the same statement they say there are Significant Financial Challenges ) & AR says we had budgeted for Second Place NOT - Promotion  

So what part of the previous Boards decisions & statements are OK ?  

The one that suits the decision to sack the Manager ? But not other parts ? 

If they had simply said - we have decided he is not the Guy-  and we are removing him - OK thats Football 

BUT THEY DIDN'T - they stated Promotion Objectives and that he had been given an "adequate budget " ( set by the previous Board ) 

 

[SteppsJag]

Nicola Sturgeon spotted on Firhill Road last night. Just saying. 🤪