Woodstock Jag Posted December 31, 2023 Report Share Posted December 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: Yes but it was agreed long before that and we had 3000 season ticket sales Higher season ticket sales doesn't necessarily translate into significantly more overall income. What it does is front-load more of that income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted December 31, 2023 Report Share Posted December 31, 2023 5 hours ago, javeajag said: So how much did we make then ? I'm really not sure what more I can do to explain the meaning of "revenue neutral". The retained gate receipts, after tax, are broadly cancelled out by the cost of hosting the games and the additional costs on payroll. The net financial effect is close to zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted December 31, 2023 Report Share Posted December 31, 2023 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Which to be fair is your specialist subject It's everyone's fella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 14 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said: Having looked at the rulebook on the SPFL website: C26.1 After deduction and retention by the Home Club of 15% of the aggregate of all ticket receipts and admission charges (gross excluding VAT) received or receivable by the Home Club in relation to a Play-Off Match in the Premiership/Championship PlayOff Competition, a levy of 50% (plus VAT if applicable) of the balance, after such 15% deduction and retention, of the aggregate of all ticket receipts and admission charges (gross excluding VAT) received or receivable by the Home Club for or in relation to the relevant Play-Off Match shall be paid by that Home Club to the Company not later than seven days after the date on which such Play-Off Match is played; Someone keep me right here but if I've understood this gibberish, (ignoring the VAT for the moment) for every £100 in receipts in ticket/gate receipts... Take in £100. £15 goes to club immediately. Leaves £85. £42.50 goes to SPFL. Club retains remaining £42.50. Total club income from the match therefore £57.50. Is that correct? In one sense a home play-off match is no different to a league match. The away team does not share the "gate". The SPFL do not get a cut. (Do they? ) If so, then the obvious question is why the SPFL get their mitts on £42.50 of every £100 generated. Who voted for that nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifexile Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 10 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: Someone keep me right here but if I've understood this gibberish, (ignoring the VAT for the moment) for every £100 in receipts in ticket/gate receipts... Take in £100. £15 goes to club immediately. Leaves £85. £42.50 goes to SPFL. Club retains remaining £42.50. Total club income from the match therefore £57.50. Is that correct? In one sense a home play-off match is no different to a league match. The away team does not share the "gate". The SPFL do not get a cut. (Do they? ) If so, then the obvious question is why the SPFL get their mitts on £42.50 of every £100 generated. Who voted for that nonsense? Those new blazers for Maxwell and his pals don't pay for themselves you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 16 minutes ago, fifexile said: Those new blazers for Maxwell and his pals don't pay for themselves you know But Maxwell is SFA, not SPFL. Please don't tell me "the company" in these rules means the SFA. That would be even worse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 Ok…..so far no actual facts have been presented as to why we can’t compete for the title ……it seems to be : 1 we lost four players. Every club in the division lost players and it happens every season. So if we lose 4 players this summer I suppose we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 2 we havnt got the money. Yet there is no actual evidence that I have seen that suggests we are way out of line with the other teams bar DU. So if we don’t have as more money than other teams we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 3 those excuses seem to be directed at letting the manager and players off the hook. 4. our recruitment has been poor. Rumours are Macdonald is already off. Look at what the manager said on each recruit in the summer. Why everyone tries to find excuses for this is amusing. 5. Our performances have been inconsistent and deteriorating. yes we can do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ok…..so far no actual facts have been presented as to why we can’t compete for the title ……it seems to be : 1 we lost four players. Every club in the division lost players and it happens every season. So if we lose 4 players this summer I suppose we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 2 we havnt got the money. Yet there is no actual evidence that I have seen that suggests we are way out of line with the other teams bar DU. So if we don’t have as more money than other teams we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 3 those excuses seem to be directed at letting the manager and players off the hook. 4. our recruitment has been poor. Rumours are Macdonald is already off. Look at what the manager said on each recruit in the summer. Why everyone tries to find excuses for this is amusing. 5. Our performances have been inconsistent and deteriorating. yes we can do better. There is evidence that DU and Raith would more than likely be better off than us. DU got relegated and have parachute payment. RR got new owners and presumably new investment. We were in a financial mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 8 minutes ago, javeajag said: Ok…..so far no actual facts have been presented as to why we can’t compete for the title ……it seems to be : 1 we lost four players. Every club in the division lost players and it happens every season. So if we lose 4 players this summer I suppose we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 2 we havnt got the money. Yet there is no actual evidence that I have seen that suggests we are way out of line with the other teams bar DU. So if we don’t have as more money than other teams we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 3 those excuses seem to be directed at letting the manager and players off the hook. 4. our recruitment has been poor. Rumours are Macdonald is already off. Look at what the manager said on each recruit in the summer. Why everyone tries to find excuses for this is amusing. 5. Our performances have been inconsistent and deteriorating. yes we can do better. Happy New Year. 1. You are correct every team has a turnover of players between seasons. Teams like Ayr and Queens Park have had that and are worse off than they were last season whilst we are better off at this stage. A positive in my opinion. 2. I don't know the finances of every team in great detail (including ours) but it has been clear in the accounts over the last few seasons we have been overspending which needs to stop. Having the most money does not guarantee success hence why we saw Arbroath nearly win the title a couple of seasons ago but I would say it does help. It could be that we have the 3rd biggest budget so are were we should be but neither of us know that. 3. I read on here lots of criticism directed at the manager and players when we lose but by the same token they should get praise when winning. I don't think fans having differing views on managers/players is unique to us. 4. In my opinion our recruitment has been average - some good, some bad and some average but, again, that is a personal judgement call. I don't think it is unreasonable to point out it is Doolan's first transfer window but it is also not unreasonable to suggest we should see improvement as he has more. 5. We have been some what inconsistent but apart from the top two I think most teams could say the same. We picked up 14 points in the first quarter and 15 in the second though so I don't think we are deteriorating. We play Queens Park tomorrow and at this time last year (2nd Jan 2023) we played them, lost 2-0 and they were top with us 5th and the team in 4th having 2 games in hand so just on that basis we are doing better. Can we improve - of course as even the best teams are looking to get better but I don't see things being quite as bad as you do but, to start the year with a cliche, it is all about opinions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 30 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: There is evidence that DU and Raith would more than likely be better off than us. DU got relegated and have parachute payment. RR got new owners and presumably new investment. We were in a financial mess. Can you provide the evidence on Raith please.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Can you provide the evidence on Raith please.. This is the equivalent of Rangers asking the SFA for the VAR audio. Meaningless and will achieve nothing. What next? Get the forensic accountants in for a financial analysis debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, javeajag said: Ok…..so far no actual facts have been presented as to why we can’t compete for the title ……it seems to be : 1 we lost four players. Every club in the division lost players and it happens every season. So if we lose 4 players this summer I suppose we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 2 we havnt got the money. Yet there is no actual evidence that I have seen that suggests we are way out of line with the other teams bar DU. So if we don’t have as more money than other teams we can’t win the league. Nonsense. 3 those excuses seem to be directed at letting the manager and players off the hook. 4. our recruitment has been poor. Rumours are Macdonald is already off. Look at what the manager said on each recruit in the summer. Why everyone tries to find excuses for this is amusing. 5. Our performances have been inconsistent and deteriorating. yes we can do better. We can, and are, competing for the title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 42 minutes ago, dl1971 said: This is the equivalent of Rangers asking the SFA for the VAR audio. Meaningless and will achieve nothing. What next? Get the forensic accountants in for a financial analysis debate. So don’t say Raith have spend more that us if you don’t actually know or state your just trying to make yourself feel better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: We can, and are, competing for the title. Really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 18 minutes ago, javeajag said: Really Yes. It's what we sign up for at the start of the season. And every week we send 11 footballers of average ability out to face 11 footballers of average ability in different coloured tops. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. You should know this. It's on page 1 of Supporting Partick Thistle for Dummies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, BowenBoys said: Yes. It's what we sign up for at the start of the season. And every week we send 11 footballers of average ability out to face 11 footballers of average ability in different coloured tops. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. You should know this. It's on page 1 of Supporting Partick Thistle for Dummies. Have a lie down on your patronising bed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 Nobody outwith the actual clubs know their accounts for the season to date. We can only look at logic. One key indicator of income is match day attendance. The following would suggest we are performing above expectation when compared to punters coming through the gate. It also suggests Raith are over-performing with United and the Pars underperforming based on attendance and their perceived income, at the moment. Then again football isn't played on balance sheets... Again, just opinion but that is the nature of football forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 Last year's showed 4th wasn't great and we probably underperformed compared to our opposition, but we picked up in form when the new manager came in, attendances inproved and we also had some good attendances in the playoff games. Then there is off field investment as you would struggle to be anywhere near self-sufficient of crowds of 1000 and paying full-time wages without a rich benefactor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 Some increase in Raith’s average. Dunfermline & DU attendances will have been pretty big plus them doing well helps too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 8 hours ago, javeajag said: Can you provide the evidence on Raith please.. I need to provide evidence that the people that owned Kelty took over Raith Rovers at the tail end of last season ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 24 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I need to provide evidence that the people that owned Kelty took over Raith Rovers at the tail end of last season ? Nice pivot …..so you like many others have no idea whether have spent more on their squad than us but for some reason want to believe they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, jagfox said: Nobody outwith the actual clubs know their accounts for the season to date. We can only look at logic. One key indicator of income is match day attendance. The following would suggest we are performing above expectation when compared to punters coming through the gate. It also suggests Raith are over-performing with United and the Pars underperforming based on attendance and their perceived income, at the moment. Then again football isn't played on balance sheets... Again, just opinion but that is the nature of football forums. Correct….land the issue is whether the difference in finances are sufficiently large to in itself to make a huge difference in performance and between us and Raith there is no evidence it is. but let’s not focus on team performance, player recruitment or management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 25 minutes ago, javeajag said: Correct….land the issue is whether the difference in finances are sufficiently large to in itself to make a huge difference in performance and between us and Raith there is no evidence it is. but let’s not focus on team performance, player recruitment or management. I did before you took the thread in a slightly different direction, mate. There are many factors to take on board. I feel taking them into account the league table is about right. The only games I think we could have taken maximum points in, but didn't were against Raith which could have put a whole different spin on our league position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 17 minutes ago, javeajag said: Correct….land the issue is whether the difference in finances are sufficiently large to in itself to make a huge difference in performance and between us and Raith there is no evidence it is. but let’s not focus on team performance, player recruitment or management. With nothing better to do today here is our halfway position in each of the Championship seasons since we got relagated from the top flight: 18/19 - 9th (14 points) 19/20 - 9th (18 points) 21/22 - 5th (31 points) 22/23 - 5th (27 points) 23/24 - 3rd (29 points) So our best league position at this stage of this season and if the manager is doing it with a few players who are not as good as ones who have been here in those previous seasons I say good on him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 1 Report Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said: With nothing better to do today here is our halfway position in each of the Championship seasons since we got relagated from the top flight: 18/19 - 9th (14 points) 19/20 - 9th (18 points) 21/22 - 5th (31 points) 22/23 - 5th (27 points) 23/24 - 3rd (29 points) So our best league position at this stage of this season and if the manager is doing it with a few players who are not as good as ones who have been here in those previous seasons I say good on him. Yes but not our best points total so … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.