Dick Dastardly Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Looking at Mojo for the 82/83 season and he bagged 22 in the league, but 35 in total. That means 13 from cup games which is very impressive. That must be a record for competitive non-league games in a season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 26 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said: Looking at Mojo for the 82/83 season and he bagged 22 in the league, but 35 in total. That means 13 from cup games which is very impressive. That must be a record for competitive non-league games in a season Was that the season of multiple cup replays v Clyde & Killie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, partickthedog said: That is a reasonable point. I will have to defer to the Thistle Archive as the ultimate arbiter of justice. On a related but different subject, I am wondering if Brian is getting anywhere near being our most prolific “lower league” (ie not the top league flight available at the time) goal scorer. Kris Doolan is over 40 ahead in total goals, but must have scored at least that number in the Premier League which would not count for this particular award (no idea how Cup and other goals compare). Most of our other top scorers will have operated at a time when we were in the old First Division or equivalent top league. Both Frank and Mo’s records were in the 2nd tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Lenziejag said: Both Frank and Mo’s records were in the 2nd tier. I don’t think the season records was the point. It’s the fact the Brian’s overall career with us is outwith the top league (so far) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted April 22 Author Report Share Posted April 22 12 hours ago, partickthedog said: Brilliant research as always. If I am reading this right, 2 goals in the last 2 league games would make Brian our equal leading post-war league goals in a season scorer (and 3 would put him out on his own). I presume that I would be correct in saying that any goals in the play-offs would not count towards this particular total, as this would be regarded as a separate competition (although it does have a direct bearing on league promotion/relegation). I am sure that we had this debate over Mark Roberts, when I presented my case for a Doublet for his play off feat against Stranraer, but you ruled me out of order! I think you are spot on about it technically being a separate competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thistle Archive Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 12 hours ago, partickthedog said: If I am reading this right, 2 goals in the last 2 league games would make Brian our equal leading post-war league goals in a season scorer (and 3 would put him out on his own). It would indeed, that also came out on Twitter. An exciting wee sub-plot, he could also register a second 'Grand Slam' vs. Ayr on Saturday; 2 in one season would be unprecedented! 12 hours ago, partickthedog said: 3 hours ago, Lenziejag said: Don’t see why play off goals shouldn’t count. The number of games for each of those other 3 seasons were different in each case - 30,36 and 39 respectively I presume that I would be correct in saying that any goals in the play-offs would not count towards this particular total, as this would be regarded as a separate competition (although it does have a direct bearing on league promotion/relegation). I am sure that we had this debate over Mark Roberts, when I presented my case for a Doublet for his play off feat against Stranraer, but you ruled me out of order! Reminds me of 'The Prisoner' when Patrick McGoohan asked the great computer who controlled everyone... WHY? The thing blew up! It was a most unsatisfactory ending to the series, but maybe it was brilliant. The query does bring some great but hard questions... were Thistle and Ayr playing a top flight match or a championship match? And it it's a top-flight match, does that mean you're relegated if you lose it? And what of the Thistle v Ross County fixtures? Were Thistle playing a top-flight game or were Ross County playing a Championship game? After 20 years and hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of labour, we've pondered everything to the nth degree. Statistics absolutely demand black lines, there can be no grey. One of the biggest decisions we made was to consult with fellow historians and to follow precedent. This is why - after much debate - we ruled out the Second World War alternative leagues as 'Official League' games, and it's also why we struck off the 5 SFL games of 1939-40 which were deemed void by the SFL itself. On the same basis, the consensus amongst historians and stottos is that play-off games are a separate competition, and we're even more comfortable with that than the wartime lines, it's a fairly easy decision to take when you consider hard the aforementioned questions. Edited to add: it's also worth noting that play-off games existed over 100 years ago before there was automatic promotion/relegation. These would determine who would be in the re-election ballot at the league AGM. There's never been any doubt whatsoever about the status of those games, decidedly and categorically non-league affairs in all the books and published goals tables. Again - the precedent is set. Our deeply considered drawn lines are permanently laid out on our 'About' page under 'Match Category Definitions'... http://thethistlearchive.net/about Edited April 22 by The Thistle Archive 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted April 22 Author Report Share Posted April 22 21 hours ago, Gary Peebles Tackle said: He’s already played for us this season has he not? Genuinely don’t know the rules, but don’t think it’s a stupid question. I’m sure clubs have had to extend loans (maybe us, rings a vague bell) to enable players to play in play offs. Anyway, please don’t get your knickers in a twist, just wondering… Not a stupid question mate. I think it comes down to as he was not recalled in January he cannot play for another club until the next transfer window. Knickers are unknotted haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thistle Archive Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, partickthedog said: On a related but different subject, I am wondering if Brian is getting anywhere near being our most prolific “lower league” (ie not the top league flight available at the time) goal scorer. Kris Doolan is over 40 ahead in total goals, but must have scored at least that number in the Premier League which would not count for this particular award (no idea how Cup and other goals compare). Most of our other top scorers will have operated at a time when we were in the old First Division or equivalent top league. Just brilliant ptd... look at the timing... he's on the verge... 61 - Willie Paul 59 - Brian Graham 53 - Kris Doolan 42 - Willie Freebairn 37 - Kenny Watson 32 - Maurice Johnston 31 - Mark Roberts 30 - John Proudfoot 30 - Liam Buchanan 29 - Chris Erskine 29 - Colin McGlashan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thistle Archive Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Dick Dastardly said: Looking at Mojo for the 82/83 season and he bagged 22 in the league, but 35 in total. That means 13 from cup games which is very impressive. That must be a record for competitive non-league games in a season Hmm, bit of a minefield, as we've played all sorts of supplementary (as well as main) leagues which are not official league games. Even isolating to pure cup games, probably not a record when you think back to the likes of John Simpson bagging 9 against Royal Albert in the Scottish Cup etc, but he'll be up there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 11 minutes ago, The Thistle Archive said: Just brilliant ptd... look at the timing... he's on the verge... 61 - Willie Paul 59 - Brian Graham 53 - Kris Doolan 42 - Willie Freebairn 37 - Kenny Watson 32 - Maurice Johnston 31 - Mark Roberts 30 - John Proudfoot 30 - Liam Buchanan 29 - Chris Erskine 29 - Colin McGlashan Just had a quick look at Marco's return for season 2006-06. Haven't double checked but his league goals appear to have accounted for 15 points (i.e. if he hadn't scored in certain matches we'd have been 15 points worse off). Not that we'd have qualified anyway but on top of that we wouldn't have got past Stranraer in the play offs. Further Albion Rovers would've knocked us out the Scottish Cup. Instead his 6 Cup goals in ties & replays (plus his penalty in the shoot out v ICT) were largely instrumental in us getting much needed income from the game at Tynecastle. I've always said Mark Roberts saved us that season. Had we not gone up things looking bleak would've been an understatement. The incremental income thru the Scottish Cup, something I'd forgotten about, must have also been very significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael m Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Whilst we are on wonderful stats a word for my Jagzone co-comm Christopher Dobie who came out with the wonderful stat that he has shared on air - that since returning to the club Aidan Fitzpatrick has not scored an away goal south of the Tay Bridge! That my friends requires a doffed cap! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, The Thistle Archive said: Just brilliant ptd... look at the timing... he's on the verge... 61 - Willie Paul 59 - Brian Graham 53 - Kris Doolan 42 - Willie Freebairn 37 - Kenny Watson 32 - Maurice Johnston 31 - Mark Roberts 30 - John Proudfoot 30 - Liam Buchanan 29 - Chris Erskine 29 - Colin McGlashan That's quite an interesting list. The name that caught my eye was Kenny Watson. 37 goals playing in defensive positions and in some our poorest teams is some return at a time when we were constantly circling the drain of relegation to the then bottom rung of the league structure. Probably helped save the existence of the club in what was an incredibly bleak period. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 7 minutes ago, laukat said: The name that caught my eye was Kenny Watson. Wun h*n that wasn't dun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 16 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said: Most of your post-Airdrie updates in place, with a packed edition of 'Stats Watch'. Donald Wilson's capture nails it! Partick Thistle 4 Airdrieonians 0 → A MONUMENTAL SEASON FOR GRAHAM ● Amazingly, it's the first half-time stalemate in the league at Firhill in over a year, Queen's Park on 7 April 2023 being the last. Even more amazingly, Thistle won 4 nil that day too. ● Kerr McInroy hits double figures for competitive assists this season, now joint-top with Steven Lawless in that chart. ● Aidan Fitzpatrick hits the 20 mark in terms of goals/assists combined in all competitions this season. ● Brian Graham - the Division's top-scorer - has now scored against every team in the league this season! ● Brian Graham's brace (his 13th for the club) moves him onto 20 league goals for the season and he becomes only the 4th post-War to hit such a figure. The 3 other members of this super-exclusive club are Willie Sharp (22, 1953-54), Frank Coulston (21, 1970-71) & Maurice Johnston (22, 1982-83). See our (fully sortable) Top Scorers per season tables for the preceding 148 years. ● Brian Graham's tally of 24 goals in all competitions this term is the highest of any Thistle player since Maurice Johnston (35) in 1982-83. ● It's an impressive 3 goals in his 288 minutes for Ricco Diack who has scored in both home league matches with Airdrie this season. On both occasions he scored within 7 minutes of personal action! ● Points-per-game king of 2023-24 is undoubtedly Zander MacKenzie with just 2 losses in 22 games in all competitions this term. See our 'Squad Stats 2023-24' table (note: select the 'full' tab) to drill down more. ● For only the second time in the latest two league seasons, there are no bookings. The other instance? Versus Airdrie at the Excelsior back in August. What's going on?! ● In all competitions, Thistle have now registered 10 consecutive home wins versus Airdrieonians (2009 to date), extending the club-record in the H2H. ● Thistle qualify for the Premiership play-offs for the third successive season, where they will play… Airdrieonians! Third time lucky? ● Kris Doolan's Thistle remain unbeaten in 13 games played in the months of April and May. (c/o Matt Greer!) ongoing sequences: ● 6 competitive games without defeat, 16th Mar 2024 to date. (Longest run since: 6 games, 27th Oct 2023 to 2nd Dec 2023. Joint club-record: 16 games, 15th Nov 1975 to 21st Feb 1976 & 30th Sep 2000 to 13th Jan 2001.) ● 28 games in 3rd place (30th Sep 2023 to date), an extension of the club-record for a position outwith outright top or bottom. Overall, it's the longest run since the club-record of 33 games in bottom pace (12th), set between 20th Sep 2003 and 15th May 2004. ● 33 consecutive competitive appearances for Lewis Neilson, 15th Sep 2023 to date, a new personal best. (Longest run since: Steven Lawless - 60 games, 18th Feb 2023 to 6th Apr 2024. Club-record: Johnny Jackson - 313 games, 28th Aug 1926 to 25th Mar 1933.) I'm for sure not looking forward to a third consecutive failure to win promotion through the play-offs. Would that be a first for any team? Would we ever be in a position to call any other team "bottlers"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said: Just brilliant ptd... look at the timing... he's on the verge... 61 - Willie Paul 59 - Brian Graham 53 - Kris Doolan 42 - Willie Freebairn 37 - Kenny Watson 32 - Maurice Johnston 31 - Mark Roberts 30 - John Proudfoot 30 - Liam Buchanan 29 - Chris Erskine 29 - Colin McGlashan So Brian scores against Ayr and grabs a double at Dundee United. He enters the PTFC history books as First double Grand Slammer Highest post-war league goals in a season scorer Highest lower league total goal scorer ever The Archive congratulates Brian on his 12 goals in our successful play off run, but refuses to sanction any further awards. Next season he cannot add to his lower league tally so contents himself with another post war record 25 league goals, including a season record 3 Grand Slams against Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. The manager then releases him as he is sneaking uncomfortably close to 121 competitive goals for Thistle. You read it here first. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 7 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: I'm for sure not looking forward to a third consecutive failure to win promotion through the play-offs. Would that be a first for any team? Would we ever be in a position to call any other team "bottlers"? Its rare to see any team win promotion via the Premier league playoffs as they are constructed to minimise relegation so personally I think if we are looking for "bottlers" you have to look at our teams that were relegated via the premier league playoffs. Another one for the Statto's but are we the only club to have been relegated twice from the top league via the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 50 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: I'm for sure not looking forward to a third consecutive failure to win promotion through the play-offs. Would that be a first for any team? Would we ever be in a position to call any other team "bottlers"? I think you'd really have to finish 2nd in consecutive seasons to be considered bottlers. Finishing 4th-4th-3rd/4th you're merely considered an "also ran". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very Bitter Jag Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, michael m said: Whilst we are on wonderful stats a word for my Jagzone co-comm Christopher Dobie who came out with the wonderful stat that he has shared on air - that since returning to the club Aidan Fitzpatrick has not scored an away goal south of the Tay Bridge! That my friends requires a doffed cap! He scored against Ross County in 'that' game, or have I missed something? Edited April 22 by Very Bitter Jag Extra word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very Bitter Jag Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 1 minute ago, Very Bitter Jag said: He scored against Ross County in 'that' game, or have I missed something? I've missed something, keep getting my north's and south's mixed up. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Fitzpatrick has scored away at both the most northerly and southerly based Scottish clubs we have faced in competitive football. We've never played Elgin, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 3 hours ago, Albert's Ghost said: Wun h*n that wasn't dun! It was Kenny and 10 diddies every week. I often wondered what his thoughts were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, partickthedog said: So Brian scores against Ayr and grabs a double at Dundee United. He enters the PTFC history books as First double Grand Slammer Highest post-war league goals in a season scorer Highest lower league total goal scorer ever The Archive congratulates Brian on his 12 goals in our successful play off run, but refuses to sanction any further awards. Next season he cannot add to his lower league tally so contents himself with another post war record 25 league goals, including a season record 3 Grand Slams against Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. The manager then releases him as he is sneaking uncomfortably close to 121 competitive goals for Thistle. You read it here first. I take it he is keeping his first Thistle Hatrick until one of the games vs Rangers or Celtic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 4 hours ago, The Thistle Archive said: It would indeed, that also came out on Twitter. An exciting wee sub-plot, he could also register a second 'Grand Slam' vs. Ayr on Saturday; 2 in one season would be unprecedented! Reminds me of 'The Prisoner' when Patrick McGoohan asked the great computer who controlled everyone... WHY? The thing blew up! It was a most unsatisfactory ending to the series, but maybe it was brilliant. The query does bring some great but hard questions... were Thistle and Ayr playing a top flight match or a championship match? And it it's a top-flight match, does that mean you're relegated if you lose it? And what of the Thistle v Ross County fixtures? Were Thistle playing a top-flight game or were Ross County playing a Championship game? After 20 years and hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of labour, we've pondered everything to the nth degree. Statistics absolutely demand black lines, there can be no grey. One of the biggest decisions we made was to consult with fellow historians and to follow precedent. This is why - after much debate - we ruled out the Second World War alternative leagues as 'Official League' games, and it's also why we struck off the 5 SFL games of 1939-40 which were deemed void by the SFL itself. On the same basis, the consensus amongst historians and stottos is that play-off games are a separate competition, and we're even more comfortable with that than the wartime lines, it's a fairly easy decision to take when you consider hard the aforementioned questions. Edited to add: it's also worth noting that play-off games existed over 100 years ago before there was automatic promotion/relegation. These would determine who would be in the re-election ballot at the league AGM. There's never been any doubt whatsoever about the status of those games, decidedly and categorically non-league affairs in all the books and published goals tables. Again - the precedent is set. Our deeply considered drawn lines are permanently laid out on our 'About' page under 'Match Category Definitions'... http://thethistlearchive.net/about So much awe-inspiring material there, I'll limit my comment (actually not football-related) to this: "The Prisoner:" Maybe the best ever series in the history of television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 3 minutes ago, Weebaw1 said: It was Kenny and 10 diddies every week. I often wondered what his thoughts were. Yes, and he seems happy to take part in Hall of Fame events and such like. What does he really think? Surely a podcast crying out there, or have I missed it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Fitzpatrick has scored away at both the most northerly and southerly based Scottish clubs we have faced in competitive football. We've never played Elgin, right? Is Buckie further north than Dingwall ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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