Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 When there are articles in the Jewish Chronicle with complaints by a well-known & respected Thistle Fan who has served the Club for 30+ Years in multiple roles - about highly offensive Tweets towards the Jewish Community by Club Directors – there is something wrong with our Club The Tweet from the Club Director was a retweet of Charlotte Churches Highly Controversial “ From the Rivers to the Sea – Palestine shall be Free “ statement The Reaction from the UK Jewish Community can best be summed up by Rabbi Dr Jonathan Romain MBE said on X: "Dear Charlotte Church: Let me translate for you - when you say 'From the river to the sea' it means expelling Jews from the Jordan to the Mediterranean i.e. from the Land of Israel entirely & destroying a nation." When the SFA is investigating under Rule 81 which clearly states that No Club Official shall use offensive or insulting language on the base of Colour , Religion etc – there is something wrong with our Club When the Club justify the Offensive Statement by saying that the Director “had done nothing to bring the Club into disrepute” ( contrary to what’s stated in Rule 81 ) – there is something wrong with our Club When a Director reacts to the protests by the Jewish Community by a “ Media Personality “ making one the most highly offensive statements you can make regards the Jewish Community – and then makes a conscious decision to retweet the highly offensive statement in support of her – there is something wrong with our Club When supposed “ Independent Investigations “ are actually fellow Board Members having a chat – making no contact with the complainant taking no third party views – and simply resending a one sided article in an attempt to justifying the actions & concluding there fellow Board Member has done nothing wrong & in effect marking the Boards own Homework – there is something wrong with our Club When every minority group is publicly welcomed & in our 149 Year History – we have never been involved in discrimination on any level – yet Jewish Thistle Supporters are now having to go to the Press with complaints & we start drifting towards what Eyal Berkovic described as a “Judenrein Club” when talking about Celtic – there is something wrong with our Club This isn’t right – its as simple as that – we should be nowhere near this stuff on any level – everyone has views – that’s fine – but its very very clear – if you have an Official Position at a Football Club ( SFA Rule 81 ) you keep them to yourself – if you want to make highly political statements which the Jewish Community find offensive – then you step down as a Club Director & act as a private individual – you don’t get to do both – Rule 81 is there for a reason The Club Board have decided that you do in fact get to do both – and the logic in that clearly shows – that there is something wrong with our Club & questions have to be asked as to our Direction of Travel – because if it’s the direction that Celtic are going in- then Partick Thistle Fans have to ask – are we comfortable in being described as a “Judenrein Club” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flycatcher Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I found this sad and sad is the right word not angry.... I found this a very difficult to reply to and I think I will not be alone to say that.... The main reason I became a jags fan in the late '70s was the lack of religious bigotry. Honestly, I have never cared about religion. However, I have always had strong belief that anyone should have to right to their religion in safety and peace. I also believe the same for 'free speech' ( whatever that means today) My point is that this director has that right. But saying that I agree ....not if he is bringing the(my) club into disrepute. This person is in position of responsibility in our club, that is my main sadness comes form I still like to hear from the other side here.Which I hope is soon. This is a interesting situation. Untill then all live and support in safety and peace 🕊️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 TJF statement on the matter below: On Sunday 1st December a formal complaint was made to both the Club Board and TJF’s Board about an historic social media “retweet” from February 2024 made by Stuart Callison, relating to the Israel-Palestine conflict. The complaint demanded Stuart’s immediate removal from both boards, alleging racism and antisemitism. The retweet in question was made by Stuart in a purely personal capacity. It is not the role of TJF to censure or censor the free expression of individuals, even our directors, on matters of conscience or to adjudicate on the validity of competing political claims, particularly in the absence of evidence of discriminatory intent. As the Club Board has already indicated in its full statement to the JT, it took appropriate legal and professional advice on the matter, and conducted an internal investigation, which found no breach of directors duties. Separately, TJF investigated whether the retweet contravened its own Social Media Policy. No breach was found on the basis of representations made. TJF’s board unanimously stands by the conclusion of its investigation that there was no racist or discriminatory intent behind Stuart’s social media content and that no directors’ duties were breached. Had we concluded otherwise, we would have asked him to resign. We would note that, in email exchanges with Stuart asking for comment on the story, the journalist at the Jewish Telegraph himself stated that the content in question “is not antisemitic”. An offer to engage in independent mediation with the complainant was made by both the Club and TJF, but this was declined. We do recognise that social media is often a highly imperfect platform on which to debate these complex and emotionally charged political issues, especially for those assuming leadership roles at Partick Thistle. At TJF’s December 2024 board meeting, all were reminded of the need for circumspection if commenting publicly on sensitive political issues, so as to minimise the risk of misinterpretation or offence, or of misattribution of an individual’s views as being those held by either TJF or the Club. We want to ensure that Firhill is a place where all fans, regardless of background, feel welcome, and where everyone focuses on what we have in common as Jags fans, rather than on political disagreements. There will be no further comment from TJF on this matter. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Anti-Israelism is not anti-semetism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Ties in with why a certain poster left TJF in the first place, apparently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 39 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: TJF statement on the matter below:... The retweet in question was made...in a purely personal capacity. It is not the role of TJF to censure or censor the free expression of individuals,... In my view, that's the matter closed: individuals' views, whether controversial or even ludicrous (flat earther, young creationist, a believer in transubstantiation - whatever) are not something the club or any voluntary society should be policing or even commenting on. As for public bodies like the SFA - surely they have more pertinent matters to attend to too, e.g. the precarious finances of football clubs or pyromania at games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Fearchar said: In my view, that's the matter closed: individuals' views, whether controversial or even ludicrous (flat earther, young creationist, a believer in transubstantiation - whatever) are not something the club or any voluntary society should be policing or even commenting on. As for public bodies like the SFA - surely they have more pertinent matters to attend to too, e.g. the precarious finances of football clubs or pyromania at games. I disagree. The matter is not closed. Two individuals have chosen to attack the club, and in particular one director. Two individuals who can take a hike. Regarding one of whom, I'm not saying this for the first time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Without making any comment on either side of the argument, what do you want THIS forum to do ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Are you talkin' to ME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Ok…..let’s be clear this phrase has been used by the Likud Party in Israel itself to describe their goal of taking over current and former Palestinian land. I assume they are not anti semetic. But does that make them anti Palestinian or anti Muslim ? the outrage here is designed to conflate criticism of the actions of the Israeli govt with anti semitism with the goal of stifling criticism of their actions in Gaza and the West Bank. Nothing has been wrong here in expressing an opinion except the highly offended have decided to be offended. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 24 minutes ago, Albert's Ghost said: Are you talkin' to ME? You were the one saying it was not closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 OK - what do I expect? Just some debate, like grown-ups do. I may back down if I hear a good reason. All I've heard so far is virtue-signalling shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Albert's Ghost said: I disagree. The matter is not closed. Two individuals have chosen to attack the club, and in particular one director. Two individuals who can take a hike. Regarding one of whom, I'm not saying this for the first time! Pray tell - how has “ The Club “ been “ attacked “ and how has a “ Director” been “ attacked” are you saying the article is not true ? And that the person in question did not in fact make the Post “ From the Rivers to the Sea” which had been condemned as highly offensive by Leaders of the Jewish Community ? As for your opinion on who can take a Hike - its noted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Pray tell - how has “ The Club “ been “ attacked “ and how has a “ Director” been “ attacked” are you saying the article is not true ? And that the person in question did not in fact make the Post “ From the Rivers to the Sea” which had been condemned as highly offensive by Leaders of the Jewish Community ? As for your opinion on who can take a Hike - its noted This phrase has been used by the Likud in Israel are you offended by that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 13 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: As for your opinion on who can take a Hike - its noted I bloody well wish it was noted! Not much sign of hike being taken though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 A friend once told me years ago about a saying in (I think it was) Albania: "He's busy crawling under the table sniffing for farts", to describe people desperately trying to find something to be outraged by. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, MarciaBlaine said: A friend once told me years ago about a saying in (I think it was) Albania: "He's busy crawling under the table sniffing for farts", to describe people desperately trying to find something to be outraged by. I believe this is much more than a few outraged people. It is an orchestrated pro-Israel campaign which seeks out so called anti-semetism in its support for Nehenyatu and the IDF's actions in Palestine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 20 minutes ago, javeajag said: This phrase has been used by the Likud in Israel are you offended by that ? Im not Jewish - and I think the point of the article is that if a Director makes an offensive statement - which for the vast Majority of the UK Jewish Community it is - then you are in breach of Rule 81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Might be an idea then not to be offended on behalf of others. Now show me the actual statement the Director made …. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: Now show me the actual statement the Director made …. Yes. Please do. Or take a hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, scotty said: I believe this is much more than a few outraged people. It is an orchestrated pro-Israel campaign which seeks out so called anti-semetism in its support for Nehenyatu and the IDF's actions in Palestine. Aye no bother mate - I got my instructions from my Mossad Handler when we met in Jaconnelis 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 2 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Aye no bother mate - I got my instructions from my Mossad Handler when we met in Jaconnelis 🙄 wasn’t Owen Coyle was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Aye no bother mate - I got my instructions from my Mossad Handler when we met in Jaconnelis 🙄 So what are you saying? Your Zionism is spontaneous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 Just now, elevenone said: wasn’t Owen Coyle was it? Bugger - Captured - Agent Coyles cover has been blown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 Just now, Albert's Ghost said: So what are you saying? Your Zionism is spontaneous? Thinking about it - and without fully understanding the full concept at the time - Ive been a Zionist for the best part of 45 Years & my Family were probably Zionists long before that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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