Just In -- Relegation Material

[Lionel J. Botch]

Oh where to begin.

Gabby did not have a shocker, but he and SOD seemed to spend much of the game shouting at each other after getting in each other's way. A silly second yellow for SOD, but maybe McMillan will be fit for our next game.

We are seriously lightweight at the back at defending set pieces. Samaras free header from a corner, Thompson free header today. How hard is it to mark a player at a corner. It is not as if they have been elaborate moves to create space.

The first goal was going to be crucial today. They nicked one and sat in knowing we have no real way to break a team down. They sat deep and allowed us to pass the ball across and back, down a wing, and back, switch flank and back. Any chance of a direct move? Several times we seemed to be belting down a wing only for (insert almost any player) to cut back, killing the momentum allowing St Mirren to get the obligatory 10 men behind the ball to kill all space. So we go across and back again ending up with trying to play a flick or tippy tappy cack that inevitably ends up intercepted and cleared. At the minute you could write a script for how the games going to go.

 

So to the players.

There is something wrong, all over, but in the midfield. Ozzy and Bannigan want to occupy the same space, about 3 square feet in front of the centre half. Bannigan is not in the best of form, too many slack passes and a good few times today he got his pocket picked while waiting on the ball.

Lawless looks like a wee boy in a mans game. He has shown nothing this year to suggest he is a premier player. Whilst on that, we look so much smaller than every team in the league and before anyone mentions Barcelona and their lack of size, we are not them. Sometimes wee teams get bullied, we are getting bullied at the minute.

Doolan, incredible effort etc, spends too much time with his back to goal laying the ball off at the edge of the box. Get in the box!

 

We need to stop trying to walk the fekin ball in the net.

 

This is turning into war and peace here, apologies.

 

[The Legend Blows]

Like it or not we will be in the bottom 3 come the end of the season. Said it a few months ago but we're in serious danger of going straight back down due to our one dimensional tactical setup. Gap to Hearts may well be enough to avoid bottom spot but strap yourselves in now for the joys of the playoffs. Am off to check the dates and book a holiday. Canny face it.

[Paolo]

I would not start blaming Archie just yet, money needs to come in to strengthen and get SPL quality players to be brought to the club in January, it is unthinkable going back to the 1st division, it could set us back another 10 years, the board of directors need to act soon.

[thistlenowthistleforever]

And do you have confidence in him doing so? Will you support them in what they do, or will you continue to criticise from the sideline and offer no positive contribution?

I will offer support regardless but I will not tell porkie pies on here

 

the figures don't lie the sooner you take your heid our your pipe the better

[Blackpool Jags]

Quite simply a shite day. Was wondering what Aero was doing on the bench while Conrad, who was supposedly short of being match fit, and Pisholo started.

 

Desperately frustrating, yet again, to have so much possession and be going in at HT behind. Buddies' outstanding performer by a serious distance was the referee: a disgraceful, shameless cheat. He had a sensational game for Saints and will their key to survival if he can get allocated a few more of their games.

 

Just glad we've got back-to-back away games coming up which is where we accrue our points.

 

Harrumph!

[Fearchar]

As I see it, and as others have mentioned, our midfielders are not getting past Doolan often enough to score. While so many seem to praise Higginbotham, and you can't fault him for shooting when he sees an opening, he has to get his shots on target: few of them are.

 

Piccolo has shown that he isn't up to this standard. This will be the test for a new manager: is he prepared to cut his losses and follow results rather than his impressions from the training ground or elsewhere? The response will show how well (or badly) Archie will do, and possibly the club too.

 

Set pieces are our worst weakness. We concede corners or fouls in dangerous positions and then lose goals at them. Meanwhile, our own corners are a gift to the opposition. Maybe this reflects a more widespread weakness - the poor long passes. (Although a few people have mentioned that Forbes is our only dead-ball specialist, I don't buy that as an exuse: if you can't hit a dead ball accurately, then you shouldn't be playing the game at all.) The team has become used to punting a ball up the wing into space for the full-backs, and maybe it's time for some practice at accurate long balls. (Our defence against them is also poor: opponents gaining possession are not immediately harried, but allowed time on the ball to control it.)

 

There are basic errors in our play: shooting - long passing - marking. Could it be that training facilities are still a problem? Are players given the facilies to train appropriately when not in team training?

 

Oh, and from the JHS it was a clear handball in the box.

 

A quote from Danny Lennon: 'St Mirren manager, Danny Lennon said after the game, “If you look at the stats on paper you will see that Partick had more chances and more possession but we managed to score three goals and that is the most important statistic.'

Edited November 10, 2013 by Fearchar

[Winter of '63]

I've seen that movie before - yet again we failed to beat a side we looked far better than.

 

Despite lots of possession, umpteen corners, and numerous sclaffed attempts at goal, we only had one serious shot at goal...and that was saved by a defender. How could the referee not see that? One of several bizarre decisions which helped make it a very frustrating day.

 

Another very easy goal conceded - free header from a corner again. The two others were poor defending but hardly seemed to matter - it was in keeping with the day that a rank St Mirren side ended up with a convincing win.

 

Gabriel Piccolo is out of his depth - if he was picked instead of a fully fit Muirhead that is undoubtedly Archie's worst decision so far. His performance seemed to undermine the whole confidence and rhythm of the side. Elliot is simply not good enough either. Craigen is a good footballer but was anonymous - I thought Bannigan looked much more positive today - it was noticeable that we were over-run in midfield after he went off. Higginbotham showed real drive and skill and ATS kept up his good form but there isn't enough end product.

 

We have a very inexperienced team and management - I fear that we are close to a tipping point where we lose confidence in playing our style of football...but I'm prepared to keep the faith. I'm not that interested in watching a team of runners and tacklers playing hoofball.

 

There hasn't been much in the way of constructive or even sensible criticism on this thread so far for the management team to take on board...but maybe they could start by getting our players, particularly Balatoni, a new set of studs.

[Willjag]

but maybe they could start by getting our players, particularly Balatoni, a new set of studs.

I wonder hoe many of our players wear blades? I've never seen so much slipping and sliding about as I have so far this season.

[Gary Peebles Tackle]

Wasn't at the game today, but has something changed?

 

When we got promoted everybody was surprised as we didn't look like we had the budget for it. We played some amazing stuff against, to be honest, duff opposition. We still play great stuff, just the opposition aren't quite as duff.

 

I'd never swap last season & the way we try to play this season. Look at thr 1st Division - really dire this season. The club is in relatively fine shape, the future looks good & if we can stay above Hearts, we will be in the SPFL next season, of that I have no doubt.

 

We all like to win, but remember where we are & how we got here. It's Thistle - it's never gonna be easy, but let's enjoy the good times, even if they don't seem so good at the time.

[David Stevenson]

if we can stay above Hearts, we will be in the SPFL next season, of that I have no doubt.

 

I have serious doubts that we would win a relegation play-off. We have a team good enough to avoid that, but they will have to play a lot better than yesterday and last Monday to do so.

[The Cup]

Wasn't at the game today, but has something changed?

 

When we got promoted everybody was surprised as we didn't look like we had the budget for it. We played some amazing stuff against, to be honest, duff opposition. We still play great stuff, just the opposition aren't quite as duff.

 

I'd never swap last season & the way we try to play this season. Look at thr 1st Division - really dire this season. The club is in relatively fine shape, the future looks good & if we can stay above Hearts, we will be in the SPFL next season, of that I have no doubt.

 

We all like to win, but remember where we are & how we got here. It's Thistle - it's never gonna be easy, but let's enjoy the good times, even if they don't seem so good at the time.

 

I don't see who is worse than us for someone to finish below us.

In fact I don't see us winning another game this season.

[proudjag]

As far as the play off spot goes, I fancy Ross county to end up in 11th spot and have done for a while. They are rank and think they will suffer the 2nd season syndrome.

Edited November 10, 2013 by proudjag

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

The morning after, a few thoughts.

 

No squad depth.

 

We have an ok first XI as was proved vs ICT & Celtic. The Aberdeen game was a bit of a disaster & a bit much to blame Piccolo for a 4-0 defeat but it demonstrates a point.

 

Piccolo looked like a panic buy. We had umpteen trialists coming through the door in the Summer & we sign one right as the season is beginning as we have no CH cover. The lad comes in, decent CV, speaks English, shows up ok in a bounce game & we offer him a contract. As time goes on he looks as though he'd be out his depth in Div 1 never mind Premier.

 

Lawless came in yesterday with the opportunity to prove doubters wrong & instead confirmed then. Compare Lawless to Higginbotham yesterday (in fact through the season so far). Higginbotham gets the ball turns & looks to drive at the opposition or pick a pass. All to often Lawless gets the ball with his back to goal & immediately lays it off first touch back the way. Couple of runs he did make yesterday were balls played ahead of him but I truthfully can't remember him beating a player.

 

Then we look at squad depth & bench players.

 

The clamour for Forbes always surprises me. At times last season, he could best be described as looking as disinterested at times & at worst just plain lazy. Set pieces aside can anyone tell me what he contributes. Doesn't have the work rate & as my grandad would say, he can't tackle a fish supper!!

 

Elliot can run & run but the shout yesterday 'Run Forrest, Run' sums it up for me.

 

Bear in mind neither of these guys were starters in 1st Div & yet we have people wanting them to start in the SPFL.

 

Then we have Baird who ticked all the boxes for us. Played in SPL, scored a few goals, free transfer. Enough said.

 

After that we have Kerr who was obviously signed to play the Osbourne role before we managed to get Osbourne!!

 

Mukendi....

 

Jordan McMillan been unlucky with injuries & will get his chance vs DU I'm sure especially with SOD suspended but a good performance from him could see SOD almost having to do a Bannigan in the sense of finding a place in the team even if it's not his best position as he's one of the best XI at the club!

 

Now before anyone comes back & says I'm being negative. I don't lay the blame entirely on the management team. With the results after they took over they 100% had to be appointed BUT at the same time the BOD should've realised that Archie & co don't have the same contacts in the game as a certain J McNamara & as such this should've been addressed the moment we got promoted.

 

No scouting system in place meant that we had to rely on 100 trialists knocking our door & then having to see if they were good enough without even knowing them!

 

Of course you're going to sign Kerr & Baird as what other options did we have? No money in the pot, no scouting system to I.D. players so you go with who you know & what you know.

 

The BOD are as culpable for yesterday's performance as any player or coach at the club.

 

True that we probably got promoted ahead of whatever plan was in place & credit has to go to the players, Archie &, grudgingly, McNamara, for that achievement BUT to go to the end of the transfer window replacing the players that have left- Dowie, Paton, Erskine & Craig with Piccolo, Osbourne, Kerr & Baird probably shows you why we're starting to struggle.

 

I know we had to bring in an u20 team but that doesn't excuse the fact that Archie & co we're let down by BOD.

 

What Archie & co have to take responsibility for, as was evident yesterday, is the lack of a plan B or even C. Teams are realising that our main threats are SOD & ATS & if they can shut them down then the straight balls don't work & a lot is falling onto Higginbotham's shoulders to create.

 

The aim is still 10th & if we can keep the XI that played vs ICT & Celtic then we should be ok but bringing in a couple in January will help that tremendously. How, who & where from is another matter if there's no scouting system in place!!

 

Rant over.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Bleeding Gums Murphy

[The Legend Blows]

The morning after, a few thoughts.

 

No squad depth.

 

We have an ok first XI as was proved vs ICT & Celtic. The Aberdeen game was a bit of a disaster & a bit much to blame Piccolo for a 4-0 defeat but it demonstrates a point.

 

Piccolo looked like a panic buy. We had umpteen trialists coming through the door in the Summer & we sign one right as the season is beginning as we have no CH cover. The lad comes in, decent CV, speaks English, shows up ok in a bounce game & we offer him a contract. As time goes on he looks as though he'd be out his depth in Div 1 never mind Premier.

 

Lawless came in yesterday with the opportunity to prove doubters wrong & instead confirmed then. Compare Lawless to Higginbotham yesterday (in fact through the season so far). Higginbotham gets the ball turns & looks to drive at the opposition or pick a pass. All to often Lawless gets the ball with his back to goal & immediately lays it off first touch back the way. Couple of runs he did make yesterday were balls played ahead of him but I truthfully can't remember him beating a player.

 

Then we look at squad depth & bench players.

 

The clamour for Forbes always surprises me. At times last season, he could best be described as looking as disinterested at times & at worst just plain lazy. Set pieces aside can anyone tell me what he contributes. Doesn't have the work rate & as my grandad would say, he can't tackle a fish supper!!

 

Elliot can run & run but the shout yesterday 'Run Forrest, Run' sums it up for me.

 

Bear in mind neither of these guys were starters in 1st Div & yet we have people wanting them to start in the SPFL.

 

Then we have Baird who ticked all the boxes for us. Played in SPL, scored a few goals, free transfer. Enough said.

 

After that we have Kerr who was obviously signed to play the Osbourne role before we managed to get Osbourne!!

 

Mukendi....

 

Jordan McMillan been unlucky with injuries & will get his chance vs DU I'm sure especially with SOD suspended but a good performance from him could see SOD almost having to do a Bannigan in the sense of finding a place in the team even if it's not his best position as he's one of the best XI at the club!

 

Now before anyone comes back & says I'm being negative. I don't lay the blame entirely on the management team. With the results after they took over they 100% had to be appointed BUT at the same time the BOD should've realised that Archie & co don't have the same contacts in the game as a certain J McNamara & as such this should've been addressed the moment we got promoted.

 

No scouting system in place meant that we had to rely on 100 trialists knocking our door & then having to see if they were good enough without even knowing them!

 

Of course you're going to sign Kerr & Baird as what other options did we have? No money in the pot, no scouting system to I.D. players so you go with who you know & what you know.

 

The BOD are as culpable for yesterday's performance as any player or coach at the club.

 

True that we probably got promoted ahead of whatever plan was in place & credit has to go to the players, Archie &, grudgingly, McNamara, for that achievement BUT to go to the end of the transfer window replacing the players that have left- Dowie, Paton, Erskine & Craig with Piccolo, Osbourne, Kerr & Baird probably shows you why we're starting to struggle.

 

I know we had to bring in an u20 team but that doesn't excuse the fact that Archie & co we're let down by BOD.

 

What Archie & co have to take responsibility for, as was evident yesterday, is the lack of a plan B or even C. Teams are realising that our main threats are SOD & ATS & if they can shut them down then the straight balls don't work & a lot is falling onto Higginbotham's shoulders to create.

 

The aim is still 10th & if we can keep the XI that played vs ICT & Celtic then we should be ok but bringing in a couple in January will help that tremendously. How, who & where from is another matter if there's no scouting system in place!!

 

Rant over.

Quality post. 100% agree. Our final position and ultimately what division we are in next season is gonna be defined by who comes in in January. Unfortunately I'm not filled with confidence. At least we'll have the best youth teams in 'The Championship' next season.

Edited November 10, 2013 by The Legend Blows

[BowenBoys]

I don't see who is worse than us for someone to finish below us.

In fact I don't see us winning another game this season.

 

Probably best if you stayed away from Firhill and here then. If only we could sack 'supporters'.

[Lenziejag]

I thought Bannigan looked much more positive today - it was noticeable that we were over-run in midfield after he went off.

 

He was more positive today, but we didn't get overrun because he went off. We got overrun because we were down to 10 men, 2-0 down and knew the game was lost

[Norgethistle]

Probably best if you stayed away from Firhill and here then. If only we could sack 'supporters'.

 

Why????? All the teams below us are scoring goals, we have Killie on the 21st of december and i dont see us getting a win before then going with our fixture list (Dundee utd away who are flying, Hibs who will have Big Tel in charge, St Johnstone who are also banging goals in, plus its at home!!!)

By stating a few truths, we don't look like scoring or winning at the moment, makes him a bad fan??? Should we just be happy clappy cause although we got humped, we played some nice passes around the centre circle and had more possesssion than the other team

[Stewarty]

Forbes definitely isn't the answer. Too slow, is happy to let runners pass him by and isn't actually that creative. Gary Fraser might have been worth another try, but that boat has well and truly sailed. We need to get Sean Welsh fit, and quickly. But midfield isn't really the priority. Top of Archie's shopping list will be a solid central defender and a target man. That and Mesut Ozil.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Stewarty

[peagreenboy]

Probably best if you stayed away from Firhill and here then. If only we could sack 'supporters'.

 

Aye, and you'd be first out the door, you self-righteous .....

[The Earl of Hathaway]

Yesterday summed up for me by Forbes corners - one went out of play and he went over on his arse for the another one. Komedy kutz? I kould have kried...

[Jaggernaut]

SOD was stupid to get himself sent off. The guy was in midfield, and we had defenders closing in on him. But of course the ball got lost because of another outburst of horizontal passes instead of somebody trying to get himself or the ball into the box. Having said that, I think that an equaliser might well have come if we still had 11 players on the park, and up until then there was only one team in it, so we might even have gone on to win.

 

1-0 down and down to 10 men: it's game over.

 

Individual players:

 

Fox didn't look too great at the 2nd, but can't say it was any kind of Howler.

 

SOD and ATS: Decent enough games.

 

Balatoni: Lost his man (again) at the corner for their first.

 

Piccolo: A couple of daft errors, but I actually thought he seemed fine.

 

Bannigan: His best game for a while; some good fast forward runs, before the inevitable sideways re-routing.

 

Osbourne: Usual excellent effort.

 

Craigen: Tried, but pretty anonymous.

 

Lawless: Mostly overpowered by bigger guys.

 

Dools: Usual plenty of effort; shame he took one touch too many when in with a great chance in the 1st half. Doesn't get nearly enough service in the box.

 

Higgi: Industrious as ever. You can sense his frustration at our lack of success.

[The Sunnylaw Jag]

It's only a thought but with SOD being out and possibly McMillan coming with the potential to do well, would SOD going into midfield like he did against Dunfermline last year be an option on his return? As this was perhaps his best game in a Jags shirt.

[ColinKelvin]

Just a thought, but isn't it possible that this is a dip in form (much as St Murn and Hibs had at the start of the season) which we can come out of, rather than a fundamental weakness in the top flight?

 

A few weeks ago we were all purring about the Inverness win (and even about the good showing against Celtic - pretty unlucky not to get a point) and there were a few folk (not me) talking about Top 6. Same players, same manager. Since then, we've lost to Celtic and Aberdeen - as we expected. Only one game - yesterday's - has been a shock. I agree that the manner of the defeat is worrying, as is home form - but you could open a shop with the amount of toys getting thrown out of the pram here.

 

I said prior to the St Mirren game that we should be able to put out a more attacking formation with two strikers (I don't really care whether the second is Duggan, Mukendi or Baird - just try it, FFS - esp at home against a poor team!) and I agree that we seem rigid and predictable and, worst of all, toothless - but there is time to get a win or two and build confidence. This is not a great league and we can beat most of the teams in it. We have also been genuinely unlucky at home so far (e.g. against Hearts and Hibs). We do need an alternative formation as some posters have said, and for me, it has to be 2 up front. watching a great player like Doolan isolated for most of a home match is depressing.

 

Let's not forget that this is one of the best seasons we could have had to come up - Hearts miles behind (and winning the odd game but also v inconsistent with a v young team), and St M (which makes yesterday all the more frustrating), Killie and Ross C extremely poor. I am still confident of 10th at worst, because I know that we have a core of a very good team (whose confidence happens to be low right now).

 

I also agree that we need to strengthen at CB and up front in January. Maybe we should be trusting Archie to get this right, rather than only saying "In Archie We Trust" when we're winning??

[Alan Murray]

Oh dear were to start!

 

If Muirhead was 100% fit then that’s a very poor decision by Archie. I don’t want to be too hard on Gabriel as I believe he has potential but better teams would have taken more advantage of his errors. Balatoni and Muirhead every time if they are fit please.

 

I said before the game that I thought Doolan would be the biggest threat to the St Mirren goal but that was wrong because it at times it was just the Higginbottom show. Great performance and so unlucky not to score. Not enough support from Craigen or lawless. Not enough players making good runs into the box.

 

The penalty was a huge moment in the game. Looked like he deliberately got his hand in the way of the ball. However as some have mentioned we should have been good enough to win the game anyway.

 

Absolute stupidity from SOD for the sending off. Archie said before the game players need to learn quickly and they are not doing it. That effectively killed the game off. Think if he had not been sent off then good chance we would have got something from the game.

 

Looks like we are about to hit a sticky patch and we have two very difficult games ahead that we will be lucky to get anything from.

 

I don’t think changing our style of play or formation is the answer. We were always going to go through a difficult patch. The only thing Archie may do is play that little more defensive in the next few games.

 

Not much more to add about corners other than I dread us conceding them!

Edited November 10, 2013 by Alan Murray

[allyo]

Just to clarify, as I may have missed something. Did we lose a game or is it the end of the world?