Archie Must Go ?

[Metz]

Serious question.

 

How many folk would've accepted 11 potential points being thrown away in the last 5 minutes (as in match position at 85minutes) this season from any other manager except Archibald?

 

How many folk on here would have accepted 10 goals conceded in last 5 mins across all competitions this season from any other manager except Archibald?

 

How many folk on here would've accepted no home league wins by mid Feb from any other manager except Archibald?

 

If it was Campbell, Bryce, Johnstone, Whyte, Collins, Lamont etc then there would've been chants at the game by now I'm sure.

 

The season started in August. Even Hearts youths have learned by now to see it out to pick up & hold on to points but according to Archibald "we're young & have to start learning".

 

That excuse no longer washes with my I'm afraid.

 

Yesterday, Gallacher, McMillan, Mair & Bauben all have SPL experience previously. Then you have Higginbotham & Taylor who have both played at a higher level. That's more than half the team.

 

Then you have Erskine who, with the greatest of respect, isn't a kid. ATS who looks destined for a bigger move/club & Banzo who is a U21 international representative.

 

That leaves Balatoni & Gary Fraser as our 'youngsters'.

 

Said it previously. I know he won't be sacked but if this pattern continues to the end of the season then it should be Archibald who is leaving the club as it's him & his coaching team that aren't learning.

Many good points made here, just one thing you seem to have overlooked though. I don't have any blind loyalty to Archie, I am quite capable of assessing the games and judging if the management team could have reasonably affected the game for a positive result, the harsh reality is that with a few exceptions no manager could have influenced the game. Everyone seems to be getting hung up on the points lost in the last 5 mins many have pointed to the fact we didn't make changes others such as yesterday's game that we did make changes and more often than not it's the usual suspects levelling both criticisms depending on what suits their agenda or lack of intelligence best.

What about the previous 85 mins we have dominated enough games to win them long before the last 5, is that Archie's fault not in my opinion it's just simply whilst this team is very good at maintaining possession and creating chances we simply don't have the collective guille to get the job done or manage the game when it matters. If Archie is to blame it's for putting this team together and I haven't seem many referring to this when they criticise him. Maybe that's because that's too complex for them and they can only judge based on the score or cliches from the press.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it now this is a very entertaining team and one that I enjoy supporting with a bit of good fortune we will avoid the playoffs if not we will need to deal with them. That doesn't automatically mean we need to change the manager.

[Westend Jag]

 

Many good points made here, just one thing you seem to have overlooked though. I don't have any blind loyalty to Archie, I am quite capable of assessing the games and judging if the management team could have reasonably affected the game for a positive result, the harsh reality is that with a few exceptions no manager could have influenced the game. Everyone seems to be getting hung up on the points lost in the last 5 mins many have pointed to the fact we didn't make changes others such as yesterday's game that we did make changes and more often than not it's the usual suspects levelling both criticisms depending on what suits their agenda or lack of intelligence best.

What about the previous 85 mins we have dominated enough games to win them long before the last 5, is that Archie's fault not in my opinion it's just simply whilst this team is very good at maintaining possession and creating chances we simply don't have the collective guille to get the job done or manage the game when it matters. If Archie is to blame it's for putting this team together and I haven't seem many referring to this when they criticise him. Maybe that's because that's too complex for them and they can only judge based on the score or cliches from the press.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it now this is a very entertaining team and one that I enjoy supporting with a bit of good fortune we will avoid the playoffs if not we will need to deal with them. That doesn't automatically mean we need to change the manager.

 

 

Well put

[allyo]

We're playing our first season in the top league. We are new to this league. The only team that's new to this league. Out of 11 other teams only seven of them have a significantly better record than us this season. You can play around with statistics on games won, points lost in last five minutes, whatever. But we're competing in almost every game, and we've still got a great chance of staying up.

 

And then you look at where we were one year ago today, I believe. Archie's first game, clinging on to hope of promotion but needing a very good run to overhaul Morton. In that year it believe we have progressed. There's work to be done and there have been mistakes, and it's been really frustrating this season because we've deserved more. But to take that frustration out by lashing out on the team and the manager is just so unhelpful. And that's what gets me. Everyone wants Thistle to win but all this negativity could be genuinely damaging, and I'm surprised that not everyone can see that.

[Lindau]

We're playing our first season in the top league. We are new to this league. The only team that's new to this league. Out of 11 other teams only seven of them have a significantly better record than us this season. You can play around with statistics on games won, points lost in last five minutes, whatever. But we're competing in almost every game, and we've still got a great chance of staying up.

 

And then you look at where we were one year ago today, I believe. Archie's first game, clinging on to hope of promotion but needing a very good run to overhaul Morton. In that year it believe we have progressed. There's work to be done and there have been mistakes, and it's been really frustrating this season because we've deserved more. But to take that frustration out by lashing out on the team and the manager is just so unhelpful. And that's what gets me. Everyone wants Thistle to win but all this negativity could be genuinely damaging, and I'm surprised that not everyone can see that.

 

Excellent post allyo.

[Trotter]

 

Many good points made here, just one thing you seem to have overlooked though. I don't have any blind loyalty to Archie, I am quite capable of assessing the games and judging if the management team could have reasonably affected the game for a positive result, the harsh reality is that with a few exceptions no manager could have influenced the game. Everyone seems to be getting hung up on the points lost in the last 5 mins many have pointed to the fact we didn't make changes others such as yesterday's game that we did make changes and more often than not it's the usual suspects levelling both criticisms depending on what suits their agenda or lack of intelligence best.

What about the previous 85 mins we have dominated enough games to win them long before the last 5, is that Archie's fault not in my opinion it's just simply whilst this team is very good at maintaining possession and creating chances we simply don't have the collective guille to get the job done or manage the game when it matters. If Archie is to blame it's for putting this team together and I haven't seem many referring to this when they criticise him. Maybe that's because that's too complex for them and they can only judge based on the score or cliches from the press.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it now this is a very entertaining team and one that I enjoy supporting with a bit of good fortune we will avoid the playoffs if not we will need to deal with them. That doesn't automatically mean we need to change the manager.

 

I've said in just about every post that I know the manager won't be changed.

 

I'm also unsure as to why, with the experience we now have, we are unable to manage the game when it matters.

 

I've enjoyed the football we play but I don't think we've played as fluently as we were at start of season. This is an observation not a criticism of the management.

 

A lot of the criticism he faced in the opening months of the season was to do with his signings, or lack of. & if you look back at previous posts I've made you'll see that I defended him saying that the scouting structure was the first thing that should have been put in place when we got to SPL. Letting Bobby Dinnie retire without replacing him as such was a mistake.

 

I also think he's been let down in other ways in terms of things which may assist him when doing the job but I guess that's where you have to remember we're Partick Thistle & not Chelsea.

 

However, game management is very much in control of a manager.

 

Take the Ross County & Kilmarnock games at the turn of the year. We dominated both teams first half but come the second half both opposing managers made switches and dominated us. Now, I don't expect him to react immediately but even in the stands you saw what was coming & unfortunately it did but the most frustrating thing was nothing was done to try & counteract the opposition manager's changes. It was just a procession towards our goal.

 

His signings in the Jan window have been very good & even moving on players deserves credit but this pattern of conceding in the last 5 minutes is still a worrying trend & one which the management can control as well as the players on the pitch.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Trotter

[sb1876]

A great Thistle crowd this Saturday cheering the team from the off, supporting the players and management team would be a real boost, maybe even the 12th man! We've played some fantastic stuff this season, lacking guile and clinical finishing at times, add in some silly mistakes and players not quite hitting it off for one reason or another, however it's been great to see my team play so well in the top division and we don't look out of place at all.

 

I'm not a happy clapper although don't really care if folk want to differ. Like pretty much every fan on here, it hurts when Thistle don't win, even more frustrating when our play merits that we should take something from the game, however I've seen most of it before (Bertie Auld era being when I first saw Thistle) and not had the pleasure of the excellent passing football coupled with a true a belief that with our squad and the football we play - we could win just about any game - even when a goal or two down.

 

With Hearts now played over half the season it looks like we will avoid automatic relegation so lets get behind the team and give them our backing every minute of every game, remember how much the team said it helped last season. We do still have the players (& plenty of fixtures) to bag home wins and easily avoid the playoffs too.

 

If we do end up in the playoffs then it's games against a team that couldn't win their division, I'd rather be in our shoes with our squad than anyone we might face.

 

C'mon Thistle!

[jaggyben]

I would like to give my opinion for what its worth really don't want Archie gone been on the official site watching last seasons videos

what a season that was team played some of the best football I can ever remember and most of all they played for each other

you could see the sheer delight in the stands when wee lawless would score and do his dance and Conrad scoring with his head

brought the same response and the bridge running at defenders was a joy even banzo was scoring from the edge of the box

what I would give to have some of those times again but it just seems luck has deserted us at the moment

The wife and my granddaughter came with me to the cup final and we were blown away with the support the team got that

day we stayed on till the Wednesday game against Morton same again massive crowd tension right up to the final whistle will

never forget the roar that greeted the final whistle I think we all realised we were going to be champions that night

something else pleased me that night John Lambie was on the pitch about 10 yards from us always been my favourite

manager I stay in Elgin so only get t caley and county games always got a blether with John before the game and he

was great with the fans always took time to explain what game plan he had in some colourful language and usually got a

result not always he best football played but John played to win the best way he knew he could get an extra bit out of a player

and played different styles depending on the opposition

I don't know how his health is but if Archie could pick him up get him In to the dressing room before the dons game might be the

wee lift the players need to get that elusive home win I didn't think way back when we won against Morton it would take10 month and

counting to get a home win I am luckier than most of the fans I was up at Dingwall and Caley to see us win both games and I will

be back at both grounds to see us win next month hopefully still think we will be safe ever the optimist mon the jags

[Lindau]

ok.....embarrassing...dreadful....amateurish you pick the words to describe todays performance.....

its clear we are going backwards particularly in defensive its hard to see us actually winning a game.....the tact is are poor etc etc etc

bottom line Archie hasn't got it..... time he made for someone who knows what they are doing.

I think there is a debate on a successor but Archie has to go

Cang bear yo watch more of this

I take it all back .... Archie's doing a great job , nothing to worry about

I

Gosh do when he's come on as a dub off the first team that wasn't him ?!!

 

 

Personal abuse is really not necessary and you will not get any from me, I am entitled to express my opinion

 

As I indicated I stopped posting after the personal abuse I recieved ....

Saturday was a good result if not our best performance but it's just one win .... Let's see what happens next .... If would be nice to at least get one home win !

I agree the board won't sack Archie but he needs help IMO

He has brought in 3 players do far in January so is getting support from the board

But he has to accept responsibility for some if his decisions

I never said he should be sacked ....check .... I've ways said he needs help

 

 

Just for starters!, Diary of a Madman! Answers on a postcard please as to what post 2 and 4 mean!

Edited February 16, 2014 by Lindau

[Lindau]

A great Thistle crowd this Saturday cheering the team from the off, supporting the players and management team would be a real boost, maybe even the 12th man! We've played some fantastic stuff this season, lacking guile and clinical finishing at times, add in some silly mistakes and players not quite hitting it off for one reason or another, however it's been great to see my team play so well in the top division and we don't look out of place at all.

 

I'm not a happy clapper although don't really care if folk want to differ. Like pretty much every fan on here, it hurts when Thistle don't win, even more frustrating when our play merits that we should take something from the game, however I've seen most of it before (Bertie Auld era being when I first saw Thistle) and not had the pleasure of the excellent passing football coupled with a true a belief that with our squad and the football we play - we could win just about any game - even when a goal or two down.

 

With Hearts now played over half the season it looks like we will avoid automatic relegation so lets get behind the team and give them our backing every minute of every game, remember how much the team said it helped last season. We do still have the players (& plenty of fixtures) to bag home wins and easily avoid the playoffs too.

 

If we do end up in the playoffs then it's games against a team that couldn't win their division, I'd rather be in our shoes with our squad than anyone we might face.

 

C'mon Thistle!

 

Top post mate, but that mantra should be a shoe in for any supporter of the club

[javeajag]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just for starters!, Diary of a Madman! Answers on a postcard please as to what post 2 and 4 mean!

May you be happy, may you be well

[Lindau]

 

May you be happy, may you be well

 

I am very happy and in rude health. Truth obviously hurts when it comes back to bite you in the bum.

[javeajag]

 

 

I am very happy and in rude health. Truth obviously hurts when it comes back to bite you in the bum.

May you be happy, may you be well

[Big Col]

Just seen the goals on Sportscene. Lee Mair clearly at fault for Well's last 2 goals - doesn't attack the cross balls at all. How can that lack of action and commitment on his part be blamed on the manager?

[javeajag]

Just seen the goals on Sportscene. Lee Mair clearly at fault for Well's last 2 goals - doesn't attack the cross balls at all. How can that lack of action and commitment on his part be blamed on the manager?

Don't think you can ever blame a players mistakes on the manager

One win in 17 the manager has to take some accountability?

[Lindau]

 

Don't think you can ever blame a players mistakes on the manager

One win in 17 the manager has to take some accountability?

 

May you be happy, may you be well. Time to call the nurse!

Edited February 16, 2014 by Lindau

[javeajag]

 

 

May you be happy, may you be well. Time to call the nurse!

Oh you disagree ...you think it was the mangers fault?

[Norgethistle]

Don't think you can ever blame a players mistakes on the manager

One win in 17 the manager has to take some accountability?

 

Archie will sink or swim by his selections, transfers, tactics, results. But he has to be given time to build and adapt a team for this league, he's only been in the job for 1 year, of which 6 months were at the top table.

 

If there doesn't appear to be any progress end of next season then lets maybe have this discussion, and progress doesn't mean staying up. its about building a team that will gain us fro the long term, not short term like some folk think on here

[Lindau]

 

Oh you disagree ...you think it was the mangers fault?

 

You have completely lost the plot. Just conveying that I hope you are happy and well just like you did to me in 3/4 recent posts The word Archie or manager never crossed my thoughts or typing. Sadly I think you need help.

[Veejag]

"****** **** **** ****ety ****** ****."

 

Is my reaction to reading some stuff on this thread.

 

1 win in 17 is not good, but a more competitive side is now gelling and we're not at all cut adrift from 10th spot.

 

Difficult games coming up and any more than 8 points between now and the split would be brilliant. After the split is when we'll shine.

[Big Col]

Precisely.

[read'n'yell]

In the past 8 games, we've conceded 11 goals. In the 8 games prior, we conceded 20 goals. So things are improving on that front (outwith yesterday).

 

Sometimes I think its Archie that isn't giving the players the best opportunity to win, then other times I really feel it's the players letting down Archie. Mair really just sold away the game with two basic errors. I'm not sure what to think, would another manager do better? I think maybe, but I also think our nice football could completely go out the window. For that reason, I do support Archie and the team - the players themselves need to get that killer winning instinct when it comes to defending.

[Jaggernaut]

If that had been Gabby for Well's last two goals he'd have been getting slaughtered as an amateur etc. But expect Mair to start again on Saturday. Doolan is our top scorer, and now must lack match fitness because he's only had the odd 10 min or so since Taylor arrived. Taylor has shown nothing since his second match, but he'll probably start on Saturday. With Doolan being dropped in particular, I feel that we are pretty much damaging our chances of winning matches before we even start! Though if Higgy and Erskine can keep up the same kind of performance, we'll have a chance.

[Lindau]

If that had been Gabby for Well's last two goals he'd have been getting slaughtered as an amateur etc. But expect Mair to start again on Saturday. Doolan is our top scorer, and now must lack match fitness because he's only had the odd 10 min or so since Taylor arrived. Taylor has shown nothing since his second match, but he'll probably start on Saturday. With Doolan being dropped in particular, I feel that we are pretty much damaging our chances of winning matches before we even start! Though if Higgy and Erskine can keep up the same kind of performance, we'll have a chance.

 

Have to agree with the Gabby bit. It was difficult to see who was to blame for the two goals at the actual match but Mair had a mare at both the goals. He has done a good job since he came in but that was dreadful defending on Saturday

Edited February 17, 2014 by Lindau

[Willjag]

I'm not really sure what people expect Mair to have done for the equaliser. If he had moved towards where the ball was coming from, it would have gone over his head. Sutton earned himself an advantage by peeling off to the back, thus allowing him to get a run at the ball coming in. The error in that goal was allowing the cross to be made in the first place.

[uberteeb]

Just seen the goals on Sportscene. Lee Mair clearly at fault for Well's last 2 goals - doesn't attack the cross balls at all. How can that lack of action and commitment on his part be blamed on the manager?

 

Is Archiebald to blame for Lee Mair not winning 2 headers on Saturday? No.

 

Is Archiebald (and Shaggy) to blame for us being hopeless at defending set pieces all season? Yes, expecially given where those 2 played on the park.

 

And this isn't in response to you but it keeps coming up on this forum. The idea you have to name a manager who is better than Archie, affordable and willing to come to Thistle before you can criticise the manager is ridiculous. That is not the role of a supporter. For example, I wouldn't have to give Ford design plans for a new car before criticising a current model. I still have serious doubts about Archiebald as a manager but its clear he isn't gong anywhere before the summer and things will need to be re-assessed then.