allyo Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Taking my argument that the squad he inherited was deeply flawed I said we should judge him from January onwards ....so far..... P 3 W 1 D 2 L 0 Pts 5 improvement Id still argue with you on this one. He had a third of a season before the transfer window and his job in that time was to grind out as many points as he could with what he had inherited. He failed miserably in that task, and you can't ignore it. We couldn't afford to wait until the transfer window and his failure in that period has put us in a desperate situation. That said, we're into a new phase now and it's looking more hopeful. If he can get us through this and avoid relegation then there's no real harm done. I'd back him for next season. I don't go along with those who say his target was promotion and anything less is failure. But the fact remains, his record to date is very poor, and he has a long way to go to prove himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Taking my argument that the squad he inherited was deeply flawed I said we should judge him from January onwards ....so far..... P 3 W 1 D 2 L 0 Pts 5 improvement Dundee United 3 Archie's Duds 1.....Dundee United 1 Caldwell's Cavaliers 1 Archie's Duds 2 Falkirk 1...Caldwell'S Cavaliers 1 Falkirk 1 Stranraer 0 Archie's Duds 5.....Caldwell's Cavaliers 4 Stranraer 1 Archie's Duds 3 QoS 2....Caldwell's Cavaliers 2 QoS 1 So with 7 new players and Stuart Bannigan back to full fitness, I make that no improvement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, allyo said: Id still argue with you on this one. He had a third of a season before the transfer window and his job in that time was to grind out as many points as he could with what he had inherited. He failed miserably in that task, and you can't ignore it. We couldn't afford to wait until the transfer window and his failure in that period has put us in a desperate situation. That said, we're into a new phase now and it's looking more hopeful. If he can get us through this and avoid relegation then there's no real harm done. I'd back him for next season. I don't go along with those who say his target was promotion and anything less is failure. But the fact remains, his record to date is very poor, and he has a long way to go to prove himself. I understand and I don’t disagree im just giving him the benefit of the doubt and counting from January when he could change things l,,,we will see how he goes it is telling that so many of our summer signings were total pish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: I understand and I don’t disagree im just giving him the benefit of the doubt and counting from January when he could change things l,,,we will see how he goes it is telling that so many of our summer signings were total pish Several were absolutely pish. Archie was unlucky with O'ware and maybe Gordon. Coulibally I'm not sure about. That one was always a risk. Anyway, what's important is what happens now. In my view the first half of this season was a story of two consecutive managers failing. I'm not all that interested about who was most to blame. I just hope the current one can pull us through. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 In truth I'm slightly more upbeat than I was at the end of December. But let's not kid ourselves on that the "undefeated since the start of the year" stats are that encouraging. The draw up at Tannadice is probably the best result but we were dead on our feet before we were half way thru the second half. Much like today there was considerable relief on hearing the final whistle. A draw at home to the worst team in the league (if that's not us) is very disappointing and the cup win against Stranraer was a poorer performance than the victory down there earlier in the season. If we are to avoid relegation or the play offs then the absolute minimum required will be winning home games against the likes of QotS. The other side of the coin is I believe there's a good bit more cohesion about the squad. Plus we now perhaps rely less on a set starting eleven than a few weeks ago. Altho' we're maybe lacking a better mix in types of player (especially in midfield) I now notice the attacking players also digging in, tracking back etc. a good bit more than before. For instance Slater, who I felt had one of his poorer games creatively today, worked his socks off defensively. A long way to go, and despite my reservations about Caldwell, there's a few encouraging signs appearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnyjag Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 Some of the anti Caldwell tadgers on this site bricking it at the thought of us improving under Caldwell now that he has brought in some players to replace the absolute bag of shite that Archie signed in the Summer. Yesterday we beat a team who in their last league game skelped the league leaders 4-0. Huge improvement on where we were a month ago and let’s not forget Caldwell is the guy giving Fitzpatrick a decent run in the team, Archie preferred to play Mtumbo ahead of Fitzpatrick. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Vinnyjag said: Some of the anti Caldwell tadgers on this site bricking it at the thought of us improving under Caldwell now that he has brought in some players to replace the absolute bag of shite that Archie signed in the Summer. Yesterday we beat a team who in their last league game skelped the league leaders 4-0. Huge improvement on where we were a month ago and let’s not forget Caldwell is the guy giving Fitzpatrick a decent run in the team, Archie preferred to play Mtumbo ahead of Fitzpatrick. Still got a long way to go and it’ll change week by week , I enjoyed yesterday when we beat QOS just as I enjoyed beating QOS when Archie was in charge this season . Reality is Caldwell has won 2 league games since he arrived and we’re almost in February, Archie had won 3 league games in 6 weeks before he got sacked . Biggest change for me is Caldwell realising 3 or 5 at the back with holding midfielders wasn’t working, the last couple of weeks playing with 2 wingers Cardle and Fitzpatrick in the team has made a huge difference to the way the team play . We still need to start winning games away from home to get out of this ( only 6 home games left )next week against Inverness is a tough game whether we were playing well or not and if we got a result up there that would definitely be significant. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 11 hours ago, javeajag said: Taking my argument that the squad he inherited was deeply flawed I said we should judge him from January onwards ....so far..... P 3 W 1 D 2 L 0 Pts 5 improvement More spin. No doubt the performances and results have improved in January, but as has been pointed out 7 of today’s team were there prior to Caldwell joining. In fact some have been signed by each of the previous 3 managers, if I am not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Vinnyjag said: Some of the anti Caldwell tadgers on this site bricking it at the thought of us improving under Caldwell now that he has brought in some players to replace the absolute bag of shite that Archie signed in the Summer. Yesterday we beat a team who in their last league game skelped the league leaders 4-0. Huge improvement on where we were a month ago and let’s not forget Caldwell is the guy giving Fitzpatrick a decent run in the team, Archie preferred to play Mtumbo ahead of Fitzpatrick. In the 1st half it didn’t look like a good decision to play Fitzpatrick as he was getting pushed off the ball too easily. 2nd half, he looked like a different player. I wont expect Fitzpatrick to start next week. Harkins will be back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 Yesterday’s win was very welcome. Caldwell spinning it all on the new players who haven’t lost in a Thistle jersey. Tbh it’s too early to call him the messiah. The first real test will be Alloa away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, sandy said: Yesterday’s win was very welcome. Caldwell spinning it all on the new players who haven’t lost in a Thistle jersey. Tbh it’s too early to call him the messiah. The first real test will be Alloa away. Hopefully we have turned a corner, 3 away games in a row which is tough as our away record is atrocious . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustic Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 All you Caldwell detractors, doom and gloom merchants and negative pessimistic miseryguts posters on here must have been crying into your beer last night at the thought that he might just be going to make a success of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 14 hours ago, jim slavin's lunchbox said: And despite this and improving the squad significantly, there are those who will be devastated if he is the man to turn the team around 3 hours ago, Vinnyjag said: Some of the anti Caldwell tadgers on this site bricking it at the thought of us improving under Caldwell now that he has brought in some players to replace the absolute bag of shite that Archie signed in the Summer. Yesterday we beat a team who in their last league game skelped the league leaders 4-0. Huge improvement on where we were a month ago and let’s not forget Caldwell is the guy giving Fitzpatrick a decent run in the team, Archie preferred to play Mtumbo ahead of Fitzpatrick. 21 minutes ago, rustic said: All you Caldwell detractors, doom and gloom merchants and negative pessimistic miseryguts posters on here must have been crying into your beer last night at the thought that he might just be going to make a success of it. A thicket of posters. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 51 minutes ago, rustic said: All you Caldwell detractors, doom and gloom merchants and negative pessimistic miseryguts posters on here must have been crying into your beer last night at the thought that he might just be going to make a success of it. I am most definetly one of Cadlwell's critics and I fairly enjoyed my pint last night. If Caldwell can get us out of the relegation fight then thats going to be welcomed by all Thistle fans no matter you're opinion of Caldwell. I think for a lot of people, myself included, who haven't taken to Caldwell its because of what was said when he was appointed. You have to remember he was brought in to get us challenging for promotion not save us from relegation. We've only really started looking competent under Caldwell after 7 signings which is odd when he clearly presented a plan at interview that implied he could more out of the squad he inherited. Yesterday's win was promising but we beat QOS at home under Archie so have we improved or got back to our early season form? Only time will tell. QOS are an interesting bench mark as they are currently in the playoff spots and they don't look anything special. Had Caldwell got Archie-level of results from October to December then yesterday's win would be taking us towards the playoff not off the bottom of the league. So for me I'm still not convinced but I'll be more than happy to eat humble pie if he is successful as that means Thistle are successful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: In the 1st half it didn’t look like a good decision to play Fitzpatrick as he was getting pushed off the ball too easily. 2nd half, he looked like a different player. I wont expect Fitzpatrick to start next week. Harkins will be back in. He rightly, in my opinion, won man of the match, set up the first goal, posed huge problems for their defence, and you think he should be dropped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 As one of Caldwell’s biggest critics, I’d love to see him bring us success. I couldn’t care who the manager is, as long as the club are successful and we win. But let’s not kid ourselves on that 2 league wins in 13 is somehow acceptable. That 10 points from 39 is wonderful. Nor is a 4 game unbeaten run a magnificent achievement, considering it includes a draw against the worst team in the league and a victory against a bottom league 1 side. We waited 6 league games for his 2nd win. Hopefully we won’t have to wait another 6 games for his 3rd. C’mon the Jags! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustic Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 26 minutes ago, laukat said: I am most definetly one of Cadlwell's critics and I fairly enjoyed my pint last night. If Caldwell can get us out of the relegation fight then thats going to be welcomed by all Thistle fans no matter you're opinion of Caldwell. I think for a lot of people, myself included, who haven't taken to Caldwell its because of what was said when he was appointed. You have to remember he was brought in to get us challenging for promotion not save us from relegation. We've only really started looking competent under Caldwell after 7 signings which is odd when he clearly presented a plan at interview that implied he could more out of the squad he inherited. Yesterday's win was promising but we beat QOS at home under Archie so have we improved or got back to our early season form? Only time will tell. QOS are an interesting bench mark as they are currently in the playoff spots and they don't look anything special. Had Caldwell got Archie-level of results from October to December then yesterday's win would be taking us towards the playoff not off the bottom of the league. So for me I'm still not convinced but I'll be more than happy to eat humble pie if he is successful as that means Thistle are successful. Glad you enjoyed your pint, laukat and long may that continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Lenziejag said: More spin. No doubt the performances and results have improved in January, but as has been pointed out 7 of today’s team were there prior to Caldwell joining. In fact some have been signed by each of the previous 3 managers, if I am not mistaken. I didn’t say where the players had come from though we had 4 new players starting yesterday all of whom improved the team and factually we have improved in January with our results ....I know you don’t like it but there you go 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 A manager, any manager, should be judged by his recent results and currently his results recently have been decent. If he can get a run together and get us up the table then that will be judged as a relative success, if this is merely a blip and we go back to the atrocious form prior to Xmas then he’ll be judged as a failure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 30 minutes ago, laukat said: I am most definetly one of Cadlwell's critics and I fairly enjoyed my pint last night. If Caldwell can get us out of the relegation fight then thats going to be welcomed by all Thistle fans no matter you're opinion of Caldwell. I think for a lot of people, myself included, who haven't taken to Caldwell its because of what was said when he was appointed. You have to remember he was brought in to get us challenging for promotion not save us from relegation. We've only really started looking competent under Caldwell after 7 signings which is odd when he clearly presented a plan at interview that implied he could more out of the squad he inherited. Yesterday's win was promising but we beat QOS at home under Archie so have we improved or got back to our early season form? Only time will tell. QOS are an interesting bench mark as they are currently in the playoff spots and they don't look anything special. Had Caldwell got Archie-level of results from October to December then yesterday's win would be taking us towards the playoff not off the bottom of the league. So for me I'm still not convinced but I'll be more than happy to eat humble pie if he is successful as that means Thistle are successful. This interview thing is getting wearisome.....can anyone who was present provide a transcript....I suspect he thought the players were better than they proved just like Archie but since we have brought in six so far and that could rise to eight it might be reasonable to conclude that the squad was worse than he thought once he was working with them its his squad now and he will be judged on results 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, Big Col said: As one of Caldwell’s biggest critics, I’d love to see him bring us success. I couldn’t care who the manager is, as long as the club are successful and we win. But let’s not kid ourselves on that 2 league wins in 13 is somehow acceptable. That 10 points from 39 is wonderful. Nor is a 4 game unbeaten run a magnificent achievement, considering it includes a draw against the worst team in the league and a victory against a bottom league 1 side. We waited 6 league games for his 2nd win. Hopefully we won’t have to wait another 6 games for his 3rd. C’mon the Jags! this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: I didn’t say where the players had come from though we had 4 new players starting yesterday all of whom improved the team and factually we have improved in January with our results ....I know you don’t like it but there you go The results in January have improved from November and December but factually we have taken 5 points from 3 League games - under Archie we took 6 points from the equivalent matches. The team would have been improved if Storey hadn't been picked every week...that didn't need to wait for the Transfer Window. We should and still could be in the play off position at the end of the season - the other teams in this division aren't particularly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garscube Road End Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 1 hour ago, rustic said: All you Caldwell detractors, doom and gloom merchants and negative pessimistic miseryguts posters on here must have been crying into your beer last night at the thought that he might just be going to make a success of it. You are an idiot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, eljaggo said: He rightly, in my opinion, won man of the match, set up the first goal, posed huge problems for their defence, and you think he should be dropped! Lenziejag can answer for himself but I read his post as he expects Caldwell will drop Fitzpatrick to accommodate Harkins. Don't think he was saying in his opinion Fitzpatrick should be dropped. Had Cardle not been injured someone would have to make way for Harkins, if as I believe Caldwell sees GH as a certain starter. I wouldn't be surprised if Caldwell reverts to the Tannadice template next Saturday. By that I mean a wide diamond with Harkins deep allowing Banzo and Slater to get further forward. Fitzpatrick could replace Storey from the Tannadice lineup. On the subject of Fitzpatrick a couple of fans I was talking to thought he'd picked up an injury towards the end of the game. He did take a heavy tackle but I thought after a wee while limping he was running freely again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted January 27, 2019 Report Share Posted January 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, javeajag said: This interview thing is getting wearisome.....can anyone who was present provide a transcript....I suspect he thought the players were better than they proved just like Archie but since we have brought in six so far and that could rise to eight it might be reasonable to conclude that the squad was worse than he thought once he was working with them its his squad now and he will be judged on results The point is its not about what was said at the interview it was about what was relayed to the fans so as an example below in bold is a quote from Jacqui Low. "Chairman Jacqui Low said the club were "blown away by Gary's interview preparation". "In the space of a week, he had done an analysis of each player, identified a training schedule to deal with the fitness levels and pulled together a vision of how to get Thistle playing well enough to secure promotion," she added. As I said before part of the problem is he was presented as being appointed to get us promotion not save us from relegation. Its not impossible we still make the play-offs but I think most of us would agree that we are in a relegation battle not a promotion campaign. The quote above also implies he could make the current squad better and not have to wait for his own recruitment which clearly hasn't been the case. The win yesterday buys him time to convince more of us that he is the right guy. An away win would be clear signs of improvement and hopefully thats what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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