New Owner

[javeajag]

9 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Not sure that I understand the above. In the first graph, it shows player sales as £0m and the third shows profit on player sales as £4m. 

Even though the directors remuneration is up, £185k aint going to attract a venture capitalist

They had some sell ons from some previous player sales .....see anything  ‘transformational’ ? 

[javeajag]

from the Barnsley fans forum this morning 

Ownership Regime

‘I think a lot of people are still struggling to make sense of it. To me, it looks like they bought us as a low-cost raffle ticket to try and take a wildcard shot at the Prem. They have put in small change (for them) which they are slowly recouping from player development and sales, turning it into a no-cost option. In the meantime it looks as though we have to watch the constant yoyo between second tier and third, with firesales as soon as we see any progress. Would it really have cost us that much to match the offers the departed players received? Daniel Stendel looks likely to go the same way as Hecky, the way things stand.‘

no thanks 

[Dick Dastardly]

8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

They had some sell ons from some previous player sales .....see anything  ‘transformational’ ? 

That makes sense. Thanks. 

Nothing transformational. A bit more debt, but I suspect still low compared to others in the list. How do they get crowds of 13,000 from a smaller catchment area ?

[Dick Dastardly]

3 minutes ago, javeajag said:

from the Barnsley fans forum this morning 

Ownership Regime

‘I think a lot of people are still struggling to make sense of it. To me, it looks like they bought us as a low-cost raffle ticket to try and take a wildcard shot at the Prem. They have put in small change (for them) which they are slowly recouping from player development and sales, turning it into a no-cost option. In the meantime it looks as though we have to watch the constant yoyo between second tier and third, with firesales as soon as we see any progress. Would it really have cost us that much to match the offers the departed players received? Daniel Stendel looks likely to go the same way as Hecky, the way things stand.‘

no thanks 

If we are being bough as a lottery ticket to get into the Scottish Premiership, I'd hate to think what the second prize is.

[javeajag]

4 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

That makes sense. Thanks. 

Nothing transformational. A bit more debt, but I suspect still low compared to others in the list. How do they get crowds of 13,000 from a smaller catchment area ?

The population of the borough of Barnsley is 250,000

[Norgethistle]

1 hour ago, javeajag said:

So just for some context ....from accounts 2017/18....Barnsley 

player sales £0m

player purchases £5m one of the lowest in the division 

capital expenditure eg on stadium £0m

currently in the relegation places and fans asking for owners to go 
 

Barnsley’s new owners never took over till January 2018

[dl1971]

This is the equivalent of putting your house up for sale. You get a few viewers. Some are enthusiastic and same are not. Someone then pushes a bit of paper through your door saying mr x would like to buy your house. But with no details. Just a vague few lines that it will be ok. In the meantime ignore all other offers. Would you sell your house....? 

Edited September 30, 2019 by dl1971
Typo

[javeajag]

26 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Barnsley’s new owners never took over till January 2018

I think it would be more productive if you put forward a positive case for them being our new owners 

[Fearchar]

By and large, football clubs are constructed as companies but run as charities - they're money pits. It seems to me that there are three reasons for investing time or money in a football club:

1. To help the club (rich fans might buy shares or sponsor advertising, while poor fans might buy entry to games);

2. To help the individual socially (the entry to the football fraternity - whether as a blazer at the SFA or at the local hostelry with friends); and

3. To lose money.

(I'm sure that the current board would reject any plans that seemed to involve the club being used as a lossmaker, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.)

[sandy]

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

I think it would be more productive if you put forward a positive case for them being our new owners 

Why do you expect others to advocate for a take-over? I know that you are pushing the TFE argument quite hard, but I suspect the majority of us are just waiting to see how both bids pan out. 

[Norgethistle]

2 hours ago, javeajag said:

I think it would be more productive if you put forward a positive case for them being our new owners 

Show me how TFE with (proposed) 2 tiers of board (Fan & Operation) with a maximum of £50k fall back income (to also pay both boards) will be established top 6 team within 5 years? Unless we are following the Gretna model relying on Colin Weir.

 

My preference would be (in order)

Current board

Chinese American takeover 

TFE

[sandy]

13 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Show me how TFE with (proposed) 2 tiers of board (Fan & Operation) with a maximum of £50k fall back income (to also pay both boards) will be established top 6 team within 5 years? Unless we are following the Gretna model relying on Colin Weir.

 

And look where reliance on Brooks Mileson took Gretna...

[javeajag]

18 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Show me how TFE with (proposed) 2 tiers of board (Fan & Operation) with a maximum of £50k fall back income (to also pay both boards) will be established top 6 team within 5 years? Unless we are following the Gretna model relying on Colin Weir.

 

My preference would be (in order)

Current board

Chinese American takeover 

TFE

But still you frame this in terms of what your against fan ownership and with  no positive arguments in favour of any option 

so show me something positive 

[javeajag]

5 minutes ago, sandy said:

And look where reliance on Brooks Mileson took Gretna...

Invent an aunt sally and Knick it down.....show me where anyone has said, proposed or suggested we would be relying on Colin weir for  day to day financing if the club ?

[allyo]

Why has this argument become one model versus the other?

Can't you have individual opinions on both? The fact that you like one doesn't neessarily have to mean you hate the other. Or vice versa. I'd really like people to put decent arguments up, for or against either model. But comparing one to another is pointless. Just coz one is crap doesn't make the other one good, and I feel the potential shortcomings of one model is now being put forward as an argument in favour of the other.

Just another thing. Who set the bar as "an established top six team"? Have we ever been that in 140 years? It's fine as an ambition, but if something is going to be judged as a failure because it doesn't make Partick Thistle an established top six team, I suspect it has pretty long odds at "success".

 

 

[allyo]

7 minutes ago, sandy said:

And look where reliance on Brooks Mileson took Gretna...

We're not Gretna Sandy, as you well know.

[javeajag]

51 minutes ago, sandy said:

Why do you expect others to advocate for a take-over? I know that you are pushing the TFE argument quite hard, but I suspect the majority of us are just waiting to see how both bids pan out. 

Because that is who our current board have said they want to sell to branding it as  ‘transformational’ when if you look at Barnsley it isn’t and I’m suspicious because neither our board or whoever is buying has said anything !

[sandy]

5 minutes ago, allyo said:

We're not Gretna Sandy, as you well know.

Firhill sometimes feels like one of those donkey sanctuaries that he had!

[allyo]

5 minutes ago, sandy said:

Firhill sometimes feels like one of those donkey sanctuaries that he had!

A fine suggestion for the bing Sandy!

But I also think it's unfair to compare Colin Weir's investments with Brooks Mileson's. The youth academy, the training facility, the debt clearance and the support for fan ownership all seem to me like support for a sustainable and community based club, rather than a shot at immediate success and personal glory.

Edited September 30, 2019 by allyo

[javeajag]

Just now, allyo said:

A fine suggestion for the bing Sandy!

But I also think it's unfair to compare Colin Weir's inverstments with Brooks Mileson's. The youth academy, the training facility, the debt clearance and the support for fan ownership all seem to me like support for a sustainable club and community based club, rather than a shot at immediate success and personal glory.

Well said....the abuse Colin weir gets its quite mystifying 

[sandy]

Yes CW has done some good for us so far, I agree.

[sandy]

Just now, javeajag said:

Well said....the abuse Colin weir gets its quite mystifying 

‘abuse’ ? Oh get real please

[allyo]

1 minute ago, sandy said:

‘abuse’ ? Oh get real please

Maybe not from you Sandy, but there's certainly been plenty said on here that is far from complimentary

Edited September 30, 2019 by allyo

[sandy]

2 minutes ago, allyo said:

Maybe not from you Sandy, but there's certainly been plenty said on here that is far from complimentary

Well I’ve met Colin a couple of times, I haven’t and won’t be criticising him.

[javeajag]

3 minutes ago, sandy said:

‘abuse’ ? Oh get real please

Look where reliance on Brooks Mileson got Gretna you said ....pretty poor dig at Colin weir