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douglas clark
Message added by douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

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lady-isobel-barnett
lady-isobel-barnett

Just as well it wasn't planned for tomorrow. There would be mass panic amongst the Airdrie fans at the sight of sheriff officers.

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Show me how TFE with (proposed) 2 tiers of board (Fan & Operation) with a maximum of £50k fall back income (to also pay both boards) will be established top 6 team within 5 years? Unless we are following the Gretna model relying on Colin Weir.

43 minutes ago, sandy said:

And look where reliance on Brooks Mileson took Gretna...

If you  cant see what you inferred ....

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sandy Jags fan

sandy

Posted
Posted

You are a total windup merchant @javeajag. You can’t find a single post where I have criticised Colin Weir directly.

Being sceptical about reliance on any sole benefactor does not count as abuse of an individual; indeed one, as I have said above (if you bother reading) that I have met twice and respect. 
 

Think before you post, mate.

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allyo Jags fan

allyo

Posted
Posted

Over reliance on a benefactor is not a positive thing. On that I agree with Sandy.

I wouldn't like to see Thistle going down that path.

In fact, over reliance on any single rich cash supplier who could pull the plug at any time is not a good thing.

I don't really see that being relevant to fan ownership. Probably more relevant to a billionaire foreign consortium. :thumbsup2:

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Because that is who our current board have said they want to sell to branding it as  ‘transformational’ when if you look at Barnsley it isn’t and I’m suspicious because neither our board or whoever is buying has said anything !

Is that still their opinion, after the tfe proposal/offer was submitted?

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, sandy said:

‘Clearly’? Nope, it’s a wider point about reliance on a sole benefactor. 

Well that’s not how it came across 

at no time to my knowledge  has coin weir suggested he finances the club day to day or indeed be involved day to day nor have I seen any one here say that would be a good thing but opponents of fan ownership keep raising it as an issue .....

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allyo Jags fan

allyo

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Is that still their opinion, after the tfe proposal/offer was submitted?

That is an interesting question. Was the consotium bid only attractive because it was the only offer on the table? Could an alternative bid be more attractive, and might our current owners see it as in the better interests of the club?

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lady-isobel-barnett Jags fan

lady-isobel-barnett

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, allyo said:

Over reliance on a benefactor is not a positive thing. On that I agree with Sandy.

I wouldn't like to see Thistle going down that path.

In fact, over reliance on any single rich cash supplier who could pull the plug at any time is not a good thing.

Dunfermline/Masterton

Hearts/Vlad the Romanov

Old Rangers/Murray

Dundee/Melville

Dundee/The Marr Thugs (DiStefano  et al)

Livingston/Keane (backed by a lottery winnery)

Livingston/Massone

Must have missed out a good few but yes, one thing in common, the money ran out.

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Norgethistle Jags fan

Norgethistle

Posted
Posted
59 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Look where reliance on Brooks Mileson got Gretna you said ....pretty poor dig at Colin weir 

No one is abusing Colin Weir. 
If the plan is to rely on Colin to fund us to top 6 within 5 years then that has issues.

To be established top 6 means we are paying top 6 wages with a squad large enough to do this, whilst our fan base (currently) is way below that. Buying and paying these guys on 2 or 3 years deals is ok if Weir keeps funding it, what happens if for whatever reason that stops. We have the 5th biggest wage packet with 12th biggest revenue. That’s what happened to Gretna.

 

The “Top 6 in 5 seasons” statement is up with “The goal is still promotion” statement made in January  

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javeajag Jags fan

javeajag

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

No one is abusing Colin Weir. 
If the plan is to rely on Colin to fund us to top 6 within 5 years then that has issues.

To be established top 6 means we are paying top 6 wages with a squad large enough to do this, whilst our fan base (currently) is way below that. Buying and paying these guys on 2 or 3 years deals is ok if Weir keeps funding it, what happens if for whatever reason that stops. We have the 5th biggest wage packet with 12th biggest revenue. That’s what happened to Gretna.

 

The “Top 6 in 5 seasons” statement is up with “The goal is still promotion” statement made in January

the only person I know who is saying the plan is to rely on Colin Weir....is you 

so why not stop saying it 

to be established top six is the consortium plan .....sounds bad eh ? 

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Lenziejag Jags fan

Lenziejag

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, sandy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, allyo said:

Maybe not from you Sandy, but there's certainly been plenty said on here that is far from complimentary

He certainly stepped in at a point that gave us a chance of being an established club in the premiership. 

However, because he did something good doesn’t mean everything he does is good. 

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allyo Jags fan

allyo

Posted
Posted (edited)

The "established top six club" thing, whoever said it, is ridiculous. It's totally against the natural order of things. Don't get me wrong, I want us in the top six, I want us competing for European places and I want us in cup finals. But I want it to be on merit.

Even in the fake reality of English football, the established top six are traditionally huge clubs, among the biggest clubs historically. In Scotland there are at least five clubs who have the history and fanbase to expect top six places, and beyond that there are others who are easily bigger than us.  We can look to upset that "natural order". But we'll never change it.

It's not a lack of ambition. But even if it were a realistic proposition (which I don't believe) I don't want us to be Plastic Thistle, bankrolled by external money to look like something we're not.

Edited by allyo
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Norgethistle Jags fan

Norgethistle

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, javeajag said:

the only person I know who is saying the plan is to rely on Colin Weir....is you 

so why not stop saying it 

to be established top six is the consortium plan .....sounds bad eh ? 

I stated “If”

I have asked time and time again, how with £50k additional income a year (£250K over the timescale) how being a top 6 team is viable. Especially as there will now be 2 boards to pay (Whether full time, part time or just expenses, it’s more than we pay currently).
 

The whole set up of TFE “appears” to be guided towards Colin Weir bankrolling this. If not someone show me where that additional income will come from, especially if run as a “Community Club” with no major shareholder or owner who will invest for no more control than you or me putting £15 a month in.

 

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Dick Dastardly Jags fan

Dick Dastardly

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, allyo said:

The "established top six club" thing, whoever said it, is ridiculous. It's totally against the natural order of things. Don't get me wrong, I want us in the top six, I want us competing for European places and I want us in cup finals. But I want it to be on merit.

Even in the fake reality of English football, the established top six are traditionally huge clubs, among the biggest clubs historically. In Scotland there are at least five clubs who have the history and fanbase to expect top six places, and beyond that there are others who are easily bigger than us.  We can look to upset that "natural order". But we'll never change it.

It's not a lack of ambition. But even if it were a realistic proposition (which I don't believe) I don't want us to be Plastic Thistle, bankrolled by external money to look like something we're not.

Chelsea and Man City were hardly established big clubs before the money men arrived.  

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Norgethistle Jags fan

Norgethistle

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, allyo said:

The "established top six club" thing, whoever said it, is ridiculous. It's totally against the natural order of things. Don't get me wrong, I want us in the top six, I want us competing for European places and I want us in cup finals. But I want it to be on merit.

Even in the fake reality of English football, the established top six are traditionally huge clubs, among the biggest clubs historically. In Scotland there are at least five clubs who have the history and fanbase to expect top six places, and beyond that there are others who are easily bigger than us.  We can look to upset that "natural order". But we'll never change it.

It's not a lack of ambition. But even if it were a realistic proposition (which I don't believe) I don't want us to be Plastic Thistle, bankrolled by external money to look like something we're not.

It’s in the most recent press release top of page 2

“TfE has given the Board broad details of a five-year plan to get Thistle back into the top half of the Premiership. It will work with the two supporters’ groups, The PTFC Trust and Jags Trust to work together in this move designed to give control to supporters”

 

https://thistleforever.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09-25-thistle-for-ever-offer.pdf

 

 

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