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douglas clark

'Tis not the job of a moderator to stop people writing here. The rules are pretty simple:

reported ad hominem attacks will be investigated (and if found to be true) or write stuff that could get the site into trouble

and you'll either be warned / your post deleted, or - worst case scenario -  banned either temporarily or permanently.

This particular thread has had a vigorous exchange of views, and perhaps more heat than light. But the quality of the debate - it seems to me at least - is down to the lack of information.  That, in and of itself, means that whatever side you happen to be on is for a fan, very frustrating.

So, I have no intention of closing threads just because the quality of the postings isn't great. That is not the role of a moderator.

If you wake up the following morning you can always delete something you wish you'd never said.

 

 

 

 

 

Message added by douglas clark

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4 minutes ago, delurker said:

A promotion which followed their relegation...following their takeover by New City Capital.

At the Q&A Malcolm Cannon admitted Barnsley had made zero net progress when I challenged his assertion of the consortium's 'great track record'.

To be fair he knows more about Yorkshire cricket than Yorkshire football clubs.

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4 hours ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Is there any evidence from their tenures at Nice or Barnsley that supports the board statement that this will be transformational for Thistle in a good way ? Everything I have read is negative.

No evidence whatsoever.

Neither club has achieved anything more than what they had already achieved immediately before being bought by the consortium.

Consortium offer would be a leap of faith. As would TfE.

 

 

Edited by delurker
Edited to add that by the time they sold Nice to Radcliffe this summer the club had in fact slipped back to below where they were before the consortium buyout.

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57 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

And here was what I was asking.

And here is what you were saying: 'everything …. is negative'.  Factual point, no it isnt.

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16 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Nope - but the bit your not getting is thus 

You have two choices - thats it - Consortium or TFE 

There isnt a third choice on the menu 

So no idea why you keep banging on demanding the Consortium Plans - given the barrage on Social Media they quite rightly are not going public to get into a debate - neither did the Hibs buyer 

So TFE simply not an option on any level - No Chance  

By deduction we are therefore left with the Consortium and have a bit of Faith in those who have served the Club well over the Years - simple as that 

What people have to stop doing is peddling the rubbish its simply about Money - the fact that they arent taking the TFE Offer Kills that myth  

We are in a decent place at the moment - Positive on the Park - Balanced Budget - so maybe we should show the people who have got us here- a  bit of respect  

If the present shareholders like Beattie, Springford, Gilfillan etc., would rather sell to the Consortium for the same (or even more damning, less) money than TFE are offering, that clinches it for me.

I have more faith in the people who came in, sacked the old board, sacked Caldwell, brought in McCall and Archie, and have started turning this club around than I have in the TFE Bowling Club.

Something else I have noticed: there is a significant correlation between the people on here promoting TFE and those who were the slowest to wake up to the fact that Caldwell was an utter  dud.

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5 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

 

Something else I have noticed: there is a significant correlation between the people on here promoting TFE and those who were the slowest to wake up to the fact that Caldwell was an utter  dud.

Yes, maybe their judgement isn’t the best ;)

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59 minutes ago, sandy said:

Yes, maybe their judgement isn’t the best ;)

Jesus ... from the guy who would never have sacked Archie !

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1 hour ago, Semi Nurainen said:

If the present shareholders like Beattie, Springford, Gilfillan etc., would rather sell to the Consortium for the same (or even more damning, less) money than TFE are offering, that clinches it for me.

I have more faith in the people who came in, sacked the old board, sacked Caldwell, brought in McCall and Archie, and have started turning this club around than I have in the TFE Bowling Club.

Something else I have noticed: there is a significant correlation between the people on here promoting TFE and those who were the slowest to wake up to the fact that Caldwell was an utter  dud.

If you post a statistical correlation between the two things that would be helpful ....

maybe I have this wrong but didn’t the current board basically appoint the board they then sacked .... I mean Beattie did nominate Low to be chairman ... 

can you give me the address of the TFE bowling club ...ta 

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1 minute ago, Semi Nurainen said:

Who's now back as one of Bunter's first choices.

As a coach not manager but you would never have sacked him then ? 

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27 minutes ago, javeajag said:

As a coach not manager but you would never have sacked him then ? 

I can't see how, in the end, we'd have been any worse off under Archie than we were under Caldo.

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3 minutes ago, Semi Nurainen said:

I can't see how, in the end, we'd have been any worse off under Archie than we were under Caldo.

He should have been gone much earlier then Caldwell wouldn’t even have been an option and we might still have been in the premier 

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Guys. Who supported which previous manager has nothing to do with which buyers is better for the future of Thistle. With very little available hard facts on either side, we can only go on the concepts.

Conceptually I do like the idea of fan ownership if it is setup right and we have the correct governance in place. I have backed them so that I can have my say in how (if successful) it is setup and I can always remove any funding if I don't like what I see.

Conceptually I do not like the idea of money men coming in to profit out of Thistle. The fact that the current offer is from a group that have a questionable record at their previous clubs and are not popular with the supports of either does not work in their favour.

(Peronally, I don't and have never liked McCall, but I think I'm in a minority of 1 on that one, so I'll not even try to argue it.)

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Fair play to you Dick, raising your head above the parapet re Bunter. Not a popular position at present, but you've been open and consistent about it.

The main problem I have with the consortium (which I still think, in the absence of fuller information, is the lesser of two evils) is that I cant see where they are going to make money: unless we are missing  something completely, you need to put money in to get money out. The best example I can think of is: buy a dilapidated flat for X; spend Y on it; sell flat for X+Y+Z, with Z equalling the profit. 

According to the Barnsley forum its not that they are complaining that the consortium is trying to flog the club off, more they haven't put much money in, and they also cant see where the consortium is going to make money.

David Beattie is apparently going to have a column in the programme  tomorrow so we'll see if anything comes out of that.

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3 hours ago, javeajag said:

He should have been gone much earlier then Caldwell wouldn’t even have been an option and we might still have been in the premier 

You always pull up others for coming up with non factual information. How do you know Caldwell would not have been an option ? He even applied for the Scotland job, before our board fell for his power point.

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6 hours ago, Semi Nurainen said:

If the present shareholders like Beattie, Springford, Gilfillan etc., would rather sell to the Consortium for the same (or even more damning, less) money than TFE are offering, that clinches it for me.

I have more faith in the people who came in, sacked the old board, sacked Caldwell, brought in McCall and Archie, and have started turning this club around than I have in the TFE Bowling Club.

Something else I have noticed: there is a significant correlation between the people on here promoting TFE and those who were the slowest to wake up to the fact that Caldwell was an utter  dud.

Count me out on that one , thought Caldwell was a dud from Day 1 

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5 hours ago, javeajag said:

If you post a statistical correlation between the two things that would be helpful ....

maybe I have this wrong but didn’t the current board basically appoint the board they then sacked .... I mean Beattie did nominate Low to be chairman ... 

can you give me the address of the TFE bowling club ...ta 

OK - Given the process is David Beattie & Greig Brown stepped down as Directors 

This then leaves the position of Chairman Vacant

Its then up to the remaining Board Members to appoint a Chairman  - as the other Two Directors have stepped down- then they are no longer part of the process - you seem determined to lay everything at the feet of David Beattie 

So stop making stuff up - you also accused David Beattie of not contacting Colin Weir and repeated it verbatim - well as it turns out they made various attempts to contact him and set up a meeting - this was via his representatives - but they were unsuccessful 

Funny enough TFE managed to make contact with relative ease-  and got a massive cash commitment in a couple of weeks - maybe there just really really well connected guys  or really lucky - who knows 

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7 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK - Given the process is David Beattie & Greig Brown stepped down as Directors 

This then leaves the position of Chairman Vacant

Its then up to the remaining Board Members to appoint a Chairman  - as the other Two Directors have stepped down- then they are no longer part of the process - you seem determined to lay everything at the feet of David Beattie 

So stop making stuff up - you also accused David Beattie of not contacting Colin Weir and repeated it verbatim - well as it turns out they made various attempts to contact him and set up a meeting - this was via his representatives - but they were unsuccessful 

Funny enough TFE managed to make contact with relative ease-  and got a massive cash commitment in a couple of weeks - maybe there just really really well connected guys  or really lucky - who knows 

TFE said that Colin Weir contacted them. 

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2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

You always pull up others for coming up with non factual information. How do you know Caldwell would not have been an option ? He even applied for the Scotland job, before our board fell for his power point.

All I’ll say is go back over the Caldwell thread and you  will find that we had other better options that summer that we missed 

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44 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

OK - Given the process is David Beattie & Greig Brown stepped down as Directors 

This then leaves the position of Chairman Vacant

Its then up to the remaining Board Members to appoint a Chairman  - as the other Two Directors have stepped down- then they are no longer part of the process - you seem determined to lay everything at the feet of David Beattie 

So stop making stuff up - you also accused David Beattie of not contacting Colin Weir and repeated it verbatim - well as it turns out they made various attempts to contact him and set up a meeting - this was via his representatives - but they were unsuccessful 

Funny enough TFE managed to make contact with relative ease-  and got a massive cash commitment in a couple of weeks - maybe there just really really well connected guys  or really lucky - who knows 

I know you are a very formal person but formal processes also have unwritten informal ones .....people step down as directors and what happens next has often been decided beforehand or are you telling me David Beattie had no say , no comment etc in who succeeded him now that would be a strange process ! Have a look at what he said when she was appointed .....

TFE stated publicly that Colin Weir contacted them !!.....so stop making things up 

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8 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I know you are a very formal person but formal processes also have unwritten informal ones .....people step down as directors and what happens next has often been decided beforehand or are you telling me David Beattie had no say , no comment etc in who succeeded him now that would be a strange process ! Have a look at what he said when she was appointed .....

TFE stated publicly that Colin Weir contacted them !!.....so stop making things up 

And TFE have refused to answer if there was any contact between them or associates and members of the previous Board  .........

So you basically have No idea if David Beattie nominated his replacement or not ........

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52 minutes ago, CillitB4ng said:

TFE said that Colin Weir contacted them. 

So Colin Weir couldnt be contacted by people he knew and socialised with for Years-  via his representatives 

But out of the Blue with zero prompting by anyone - he offered a random  group of Supporters Millions ? 

Ok fair enough    

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14 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And TFE have refused to answer if there was any contact between them or associates and members of the previous Board  .........

So you basically have No idea if David Beattie nominated his replacement or not ........

I said read his comments when he appointed low 

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25 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

So Colin Weir couldnt be contacted by people he knew and socialised with for Years-  via his representatives 

But out of the Blue with zero prompting by anyone - he offered a random  group of Supporters Millions ? 

Ok fair enough    

Colin Weir has always seemed to be supporter friendly no ? Eg gifting shares to the trust etc so it doesn’t seem unusual ....mind you we never did get that rep on the board ....

Edited by javeajag

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I'm a bit scared to come onto this thread as it has been a bit toxic by people with their own agendas, but here goes: I started going to Firhill not long after Hitler was bombing the chip shops in Knightswood. [some residents said that's the only good thing he ever done] Since then and up today, Thistles problem is that it always has been skint.Two of my friends signed for the Jags in 1959 and were told  by Davie Meiklejohn work hard and I'll  get you a move down south, I have to sell two players every season to just keep this club afloat. Not just to keep it going, to keep it from going bust.  It is a very hard job running the Jags, you cannot just to rely on the crowds, you need sponsorship. advertising, hospitality plus others and it mostly has to come from Jags fans. So who ever takes over the Jags the will need deep pockets or even very deep pockets and good administrators at the helm, and for all of my time at Firhill,  David Beatie is far and away the very best. Thistle will not survive for very long if we stay in the !st Division,  Inverness have just posted a loss of nearly a million and that will happen to us if we do not have investment. We will have to wait and see what  each consortium has to offer. Is Colin's offer just his shares or is their a few millions for capital?

And what about the other group. Are they going to invest? I think we are in a different situation than Barnsley and Nice. Have they done their homework ? Can they build the support to make the investment worthwhile? Four good players on loan from Barnsley in January and we would walk this league, and be back in the money in the premier. Just reading that the club only gets just over 4 grand for Tv games on a Friday, the rest of the cash goes to the premier. So if we don't get promotion in the very near future we will be down with the Clyde and the Airdrie, and be run by someone who has a knicker stall down the barrows. The choice is yours!

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2 hours ago, javeajag said:

All I’ll say is go back over the Caldwell thread and you  will find that we had other better options that summer that we missed 

Again all rumours. Again something you consistently tell others not to do. Unless you are on the board at Firhill  you do not know who was in running for the managerial job no matter when it was. Anyway I am not interested in the you said/ I said discussion you seem to get involved in a lot. We now have a manager in charge who will get us up the league and not fighting against relegation  play off until the last game of the season.

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