BowenBoys Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Welcome to the wonderful world of Partick Thistle Fan Centric. Except for me. Having supported the club for 31 years, I find myself excluded because I don't have a season ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 minute ago, BowenBoys said: Welcome to the wonderful world of Partick Thistle Fan Centric. Except for me. Having supported the club for 31 years, I find myself excluded because I don't have a season ticket. BB. Totally sympathise. However, as a season ticket holder I am effectively excluded too. The PTFC Trust may claim to represent me, but I have no say in how I am "represented". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggydave Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Still got to 'admire' the brass neck of the Trust. Tweeting about how they are 'for our fans, for our club' for the first time since March 2020. JL must be their communications director.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 "Independent entity" "Strong representation for fans" "fan base represented" "beneficiaries and custodians" "fan ownership" "fans who love the club to be guardians of its majority shareholding" "fans' representative body" Welcome to the world of George Orwell. Party like its 1984. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, partickthedog said: BB. Totally sympathise. However, as a season ticket holder I am effectively excluded too. The PTFC Trust may claim to represent me, but I have no say in how I am "represented". This. To the extent that the structure of the Trust isn't already skewed towards control by the Club board (as a result of the embedded provisions around the composition of the trustees), the Trust has no track record of complying with its own election requirements. Whatever else it is, the Trust is not a representative organisation. In fairness, it was never set up to be one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggydave Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 The PTFC Trust statement has to be seen to be believed. It looks like JL wrote it for them - either her or Alan Partridge. And most certainly not in my name... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 So Low keeps control of the Club, despite having no shares and having invested nothing. There must be some way by which season ticket holders can pressure the Trust into holding an EGM. I think TJF should now use some of their funds to examine legal avenues to make the Trust accountable to fans. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Scruff Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Predictable. And depressing. The marginal decision we make each season to renew our season tickets just got a lot easier (we get to fewer games than justifies the purchase). Particularly since it's absolutely clear that they always intended to do this and didn't want to interrupt season ticket sales by delaying it. I can take a lot as a Thistle fan but I cannot stand being taken for a mug. Line in the sand for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 “People who’ve never met Colin Weir will speculate as to what he would think today. The directors of 3BC know exactly what he wanted – for the fans who love the club to be guardians of its majority shareholding, keeping the club stable and safe from being sold against fans’ wishes. He would be quietly chuffed that this has now been settled and his wishes delivered” What a horrible read that paragraph is. Using a man who has sadly passed away in some sort of ‘and now the matter is closed’ context. The Jags trust do not represent me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 I foolishly hoped that Low had found an individual willing to invest in the Club and to work with fans in a constructive way. Simply handing the shares to the Trust does nothing to address the need for investment in the stadium and the team. The TJF has funds and an income from fans to help the Club. The Trust offers nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 17 minutes ago, eljaggo said: There must be some way by which season ticket holders can pressure the Trust into holding an EGM. The Trust is not a company. It has no legal requirement or constitutional structure for engagement with season ticket holders, other than the trustee elections which it does not hold. It is, by its nature, a passive structure. There's no point in asking a cat to bark like a dog, and then be surprised when it doesn't. It is incredibly difficult for a beneficiary to demand engagement. But trustees do owe certain legal duties to beneficiaries. Query whether those duties are being properly discharged by the trustees? It would require legal action against the trustees personally for breach of trust by a qualifying season ticket holder to determine the point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 37 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: Welcome to the wonderful world of Partick Thistle Fan Centric. Except for me. Having supported the club for 31 years, I find myself excluded because I don't have a season ticket. Upon reflection, having read the PTFC Trust statement, I'm happy where I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, eljaggo said: So Low keeps control of the Club, despite having no shares and having invested nothing. There must be some way by which season ticket holders can pressure the Trust into holding an EGM. I think TJF should now use some of their funds to examine legal avenues to make the Trust accountable to fans. I had mentioned earlier about tents and urination but "beneficiaries and custodians" appears to be a hollow term. Someone else will be able to explain as I'm clueless on such matters. * Quote pleased to see that the Trust is also working hard on ways to bring non-ST holders on board to give them a voice too An amazing statement. Can't make up my mind whether that's vacuous nonsense or a pitiful attempt at divide and conquer. I know of only one vehicle where non-season ticket holders can have a say in the running of PTFC. A vehicle that PTFC snubbed. I know this forum in far from representative of Jags fans. Nobody claims it is even if sometimes we forget. Same attitude goes I'm sure for Facebook Jags, P & B etc. That said is there anybody who posts on here in favour of today's decision? I'm an ST holder and as a "custodian & beneficiary" I'm appalled by it, if not the least bit surprised. * stolenscone has I see explained this missed post Edited August 17, 2022 by lady-isobel-barnett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) Our statement is a holding one for now. We will examine the public domain information about this proposal and give our view once we have discussed it collectively as a board. If you have specific views on it we would like to hear them and please contact us either on here, by email at [email protected] or on our other social media channels. Thank you for your support and bear with us. We want our response to be as objective as possible and to avoid saying things in the moment that we might otherwise regret. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/update-on-three-black-cats-fan-ownership-announcement/ Edited August 17, 2022 by Woodstock Jag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 28 minutes ago, stolenscone said: The Trust is not a company. It has no legal requirement or constitutional structure for engagement with season ticket holders, other than the trustee elections which it does not hold. It is, by its nature, a passive structure. There's no point in asking a cat to bark like a dog, and then be surprised when it doesn't. It is incredibly difficult for a beneficiary to demand engagement. But trustees do owe certain legal duties to beneficiaries. Query whether those duties are being properly discharged by the trustees? It would require legal action against the trustees personally for breach of trust by a qualifying season ticket holder to determine the point. I am not a lawyer, but I would be surprised if the Trustees carried no responsibilty to those who now own the shares, namely us lot. With that responsibilty must come accountability, and there must be a legal way by which that is exercised by the share owners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarciaBlaine Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 30 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Our statement is a holding one for now. We will examine the public domain information about this proposal and give our view once we have discussed it collectively as a board. If you have specific views on it we would like to hear them and please contact us either on here, by email at [email protected] or on our other social media channels. Thank you for your support and bear with us. We want our response to be as objective as possible and to avoid saying things in the moment that we might otherwise regret. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/update-on-three-black-cats-fan-ownership-announcement/ You might want to look into coach hire companies, as you can drive a bus through what’s been announced today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevenone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Does anyone know the signatories in Jags Trust statement? Pretty sure they are all different names from ones listed on club website which has now been removed and replaced with link to their facebook page which today has had its first update in over 2 and a half years. Did they have recent elections? Was anyone informed if so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, eljaggo said: I am not a lawyer, but I would be surprised if the Trustees carried no responsibilty to those who now own the shares, namely us lot. With that responsibilty must come accountability, and there must be a legal way by which that is exercised by the share owners. Hi - if you read my post, I have said that all trustees owe certain legal duties to the beneficiaries of the trust that they represent. It would be for a beneficiary (a qualifying season ticket holder) to raise a legal action personally against a trustee who they thought was acting in breach of their legal duties as trustees. Speaking of trustees, I see that there is an almost entirely new set of names at at end of the Trust's statement today. Did I fall asleep and miss ANOTHER set of elections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/three-black-cats-announces-preferred-recipient-for-majority-shareholding/ You can paint a shite purple but it still smells like shite No ST, no representation - total rubbish. Edited August 17, 2022 by sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 1 hour ago, partickthedog said: "Independent entity" "Strong representation for fans" "fan base represented" "beneficiaries and custodians" "fan ownership" "fans who love the club to be guardians of its majority shareholding" "fans' representative body" Welcome to the world of George Orwell. Party like its 1984. The clock just struck thirteen as I sat under the old chestnut tree 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, stolenscone said: Hi - if you read my post, I have said that all trustees owe certain legal duties to the beneficiaries of the trust that they represent. It would be for a beneficiary (a qualifying season ticket holder) to raise a legal action personally against a trustee who they thought was acting in breach of their legal duties as trustees. Speaking of trustees, I see that there is an almost entirely new set of names at at end of the Trust's statement today. Did I fall asleep and miss ANOTHER set of elections? I understand that a breach of their legal duties is actionable, but the point I was trying to make was about trustees acting against the best interests of shareholders. I don't know how the two conflate. Edited August 17, 2022 by eljaggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 So PTFC Trust have elected a new board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 Just for clarification I post on here as lady-isobel-barnett but I'm also chairman , secretary and PR guru for North East Clackmannanshire PTFC Supporters Association. I'd just like to give you a detailed account of what all that entails as I believe regular communication with the NECPTFC membership is of prime importance. But let's just leave that foranother day, eh? I'd just like to take this opportunity to wish my beneficiary and custodian a very Happy New Year. I hope 2020 will be a successful year on and off the pitch. In fact for that matter have a Happy 2021 and Happy 2022. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolenscone Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, eljaggo said: I understand that a breach of their legal duties is actionable, but the point I was trying to make was about trustees acting against the best interests of shareholders. I don't know how the two conflate. One of the duties is to act in accordance with the best interests of the beneficiaries, as seen through the filter of the Trust purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted August 17, 2022 Report Share Posted August 17, 2022 PTFC Trust. Sleazy in more ways than one it would seem. Certain people/persons should not be anywhere near the running of the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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