The Jags Foundation

[East Kent Jag II]

Difficulty is that the Trust are only a vehicle to hold the shares.  They have no places on the club board, and without that anybody claiming that the Trust is  Motherwell style fan ownership is completely wrong.  There is no fan representation on the current board. My concern is that the current board have the club very tightly clutched in their grubby maws and won't let go.

[ThickAsThieves]

Has anyone at the Jags Foundation reached out to the likes of BBC Scotland, thinking specifically Sportsound and/or Off the Ball, to get some airtime to address these issues? 

It beggars belief that this has been allowed to happen. 750+ fans in a well-run, transparent membership organisation that communicates with all fans vs. a membership organisation that claims to automatically represent all season ticket holders (despite these season ticket holders having had zero communication, zero ability to affect anything, zero votes on Trust leadership) who have not uttered a meaningful word to any Thistle fan in close to three years. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by ThickAsThieves

[Jimbo]

1 hour ago, jagfox said:

I know two of them and both are long standing Jags fans. I don't know where the connection with the board was made. Probably through social media. I look forward to hear their reasoning to support this movement. They aren't folk in need of a free lunch so I don't see it as for personal gain. 

 

Would you know if these 2 individuals, or their businesses, have any commercial relationship with JL's company?

[East Kent Jag II]

17 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Would you know if these 2 individuals, or their businesses, have any commercial relationship with JL's company?

Or is it possible that all of the trustees have been recruited from the 71 Club?

[Woodstock Jag]

4 minutes ago, East Kent Jag II said:

Or is it possible that all of the trustees have been recruited from the 71 Club?

As far as I can see, none of the listed trustees are named as members of the 71 Club on the website https://ptfc.co.uk/club/71-club/

Not that the Thistle website has ever been a particularly reliable or up-to-date statement about pretty much anything in recent years.

[MarciaBlaine]

Maybe a daft question but if the majority shareholder can't attend (or presumably vote on matters at) the club board, how are club board members appointed or removed? Who decides? 

Edited August 18, 2022 by MarciaBlaine
Typo

[Yellow & Redneck]

Another question I have is Alan Rough's position at the club. To me, it seems very much an Honorary position, as I doubt he's investing any of his own money. Not to sound patronising, but he seems a bit like a Jacqui stooge who is rolled out on TV and radio to deliver her message. 

[stolenscone]

14 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Maybe a daft question but if the majority shareholder can't attend (or presumably vote on matters at) the club board, how are club board members appointed or removed? Who decides? 

It's not possible to answer your question without knowing what, if any, restrictions have been placed on that majority shareholding.  But if it is as you have outlined, then the assumption is that such decisions would be taken by a majority of eligible shareholders.  So, whoever is left gets to decide.

[MarciaBlaine]

23 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

It's not possible to answer your question without knowing what, if any, restrictions have been placed on that majority shareholding.  But if it is as you have outlined, then the assumption is that such decisions would be taken by a majority of eligible shareholders.  So, whoever is left gets to decide.

Thanks. Can anyone clarify: are the details of shareholders in the public domain now? Companies House doesn't seem to have anything since 2016.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

14 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Maybe a daft question but if the majority shareholder can't attend (or presumably vote on matters at) the club board, how are club board members appointed or removed? Who decides? 

Reminds me of the tale about a guy visiting a very posh golf club. He thought there were one or two improvements that could've been made that would've made his visit more enjoyable. Back in the most ritzy of 19th holes he asks if the club have a suggestion book. He immediately receives a tap on his shoulder and comes face to face with a gentleman of florid complexion hiding behind an RAF style moustache and sporting an overlarge club blazer. A mouth opens somewhere underneath the moustache and sharply informs the visitor "I am the Suggestion Book".

That's an example of club democracy in action. Are we to go the same way? 

[delurker]

Anyone know if TJF will still be present at the match tomorrow night ?

I've still got a pin to pick up...

[stolenscone]

6 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Thanks. Can anyone clarify: are the details of shareholders in the public domain now? Companies House doesn't seem to have anything since 2016.

Go onto the Companies House page for company number SC005417 (the club), click on Filing History, and then click on the pdf view for the Confirmation Statement made on 31 December 2020.

That will show the most recent filed record of shareholders of the football club.  I cannot comment on whether there have been any recent updates which have not yet hit the register.

[MarciaBlaine]

6 minutes ago, stolenscone said:

Go onto the Companies House page for company number SC005417 (the club), click on Filing History, and then click on the pdf view for the Confirmation Statement made on 31 December 2020.

That will show the most recent filed record of shareholders of the football club.  I cannot comment on whether there have been any recent updates which have not yet hit the register.

Great, thanks. A quick search suggests that no club board members are shareholders. 

Sorry again if I'm being daft but who therefore externally controls or directs what the board do? How do they exercise control? Are the board there forever like Supreme Court justices? I recall that Beattie and Co were able to wrest back control but how was that done and how could it be done in future? 

[Woodstock Jag]

6 minutes ago, MarciaBlaine said:

Great, thanks. A quick search suggests that no club board members are shareholders. 

Sorry again if I'm being daft but who therefore externally controls or directs what the board do? How do they exercise control? Are the board there forever like Supreme Court justices? I recall that Beattie and Co were able to wrest back control but how was that done and how could it be done in future? 

At the time of the take-over, it was made clear that Three Black Cats had determined the appointments of the "interim board" (which had included Colin Weir, not included Jacqui Low, but in reality, included Jacqui Low as his/3BC's representative). She subsequently returned to the Board a couple of months after he passed away.

The bottom line with a company structured and divvied out like PTFC is that the majority shareholder calls the shots on most of these things.

[elevenone]

No mention of the Chairs removal on day 1 from official channels then?  Just an edit of letter with his name erased.  Communication and transparency off to a flyer.  

[javeajag]

I’m trying to get my head round owning 75% of a company but having no say , influence or control.  Definitely unusual 
 

unless it’s a circular process where the board appoint the trustees of the trust and the board appoints members to the club board ?

[Dougall]

On the  official FB page there are replies from the owner of Ark Sports who seems to have inside information on the procecss (but only willing to share information if people get in touch directly via PM) . His name does not appear as a trustee on the statement released yetserday however I did notice that one of the trustees was a guest when Ark Sports sponsored a match at firhill last season (August 2021).

From their FB page it looks like Ark Sports represents a number of players who have signed for the club but what was their role in the negotiations between the PTFC trust and the 3BC?

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Dougall

[Garscube Road End 2]

4 minutes ago, Dougall said:

On the  official FB page there are replies from the owner of Ark Sports who seems to have inside information on the procecss (but only willing to share information if people get in touch directly via PM) . His name does not appear as a trustee on the statement released yetserday however I did notice that one of the trustees was a guest when Ark Sports sponsored a match at firhill last season (August 2021).

From their FB page it looks like Ark Sports represents a number of players who have signed for the club but what was their role in the negotiations between the PTFC trust and the 3BC?

 

Stewart McGregor?

[jagfox]

2 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Would you know if these 2 individuals, or their businesses, have any commercial relationship with JL's company?

No. I don't know if one has a business and the other I have no idea but I doubt it due to the nature of their businesses. 

[Lambies Lost Doo]

4 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Try not to confuse The Jags Trust (Elected) with The PTFC Trust (selected). 
It’s The PTFC Trust that’s been offered the shares 

Yep sorry.  Corrected my original post.  Hard to keep up with 3 different fans bodies!

[Dougall]

14 minutes ago, Garscube Road End 2 said:

Stewart McGregor?

Yeh.  I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that his involvement was in a professional capacity as he is not listed as trustee. If he isn't involved in a professional capacity why are there groups of fans who have more information than the rest of us, yet are not trustees of the PTFC trust, and acting as points of communication for the trust.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Dougall

[jagfox]

18 minutes ago, Dougall said:

On the  official FB page there are replies from the owner of Ark Sports who seems to have inside information on the procecss (but only willing to share information if people get in touch directly via PM) . His name does not appear as a trustee on the statement released yetserday however I did notice that one of the trustees was a guest when Ark Sports sponsored a match at firhill last season (August 2021).

From their FB page it looks like Ark Sports represents a number of players who have signed for the club but what was their role in the negotiations between the PTFC trust and the 3BC?

 

Partick Thistle have a few players represented by Ark including Harry Milne. I'm sure they would want what they see as the best for the club. Not much to be made on part-time or even amateur players in the lower leagues.

[jagfox]

Just now, Dougall said:

Yeh.  I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that his involvement was a professional capacity as he is not listed as trustee. If he isn't involved in a professional capacity why are there groups of fans who have more information yet are not trustees of the PTFC trust.

An agent would be involved with the club in a professional capacity. They would also have relations with some board members and the CEO you would assume.

[stolenscone]

48 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I’m trying to get my head round owning 75% of a company but having no say , influence or control.  Definitely unusual 
 

unless it’s a circular process where the board appoint the trustees of the trust and the board appoints members to the club board ?

If (and without sight of an updated Trust deed / conditions imposed on the share transfer, I am speculating) the 75% shareholder is not entitled to vote on matters of appointing Club board directors, then the appointments would be voted on by the other 25% shareholders, I would think.

[Jimbo]

3 minutes ago, jagfox said:

An agent would be involved with the club in a professional capacity. They would also have relations with some board members and the CEO you would assume.

So can I conclude that TBC/BoD shared their intention in relation to the share transfer with the Ark Sports agency but kept TJF, & fans generally, in the dark? Sure looks like it.