Yellow & Redneck Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Just now, javeajag said: 87% of the uk population have a smart phone 92% of the uk population have access to the internet 83% of transactions in the UK are cashless unless thistle fans don’t represent the population as a whole then your point is misplaced But that's just not accurate. Just because of the aforementioned stats, that does not mean that those people have the technical literacy to purchase things online. I have parents who have smartphone and access to the internet, but cannot purchase things online without help - nor do they feel comfortable doing it (safety concerns with card numbers, etc). Only around 55% of those 65+ purchase goods and services online (despite >75% having access to smartphones and the internet). There are a huge number of factors that extend beyond mere access to technology that impact someone's ability to purchase e-tickets to matches. Even on a pragmatic level, it becomes difficult to spontaneously attend a match in Scotland anymore. It has to be pre-planned, pre-arrange, pre-booked. Otherwise, you run the risk of not being able to get a ticket. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) Having a smartphone (how do they know everybody's age?) and "having access" to the internet means zilch. 100% of the uk population has access to first-class intercontinental air travel and to all of the munros in Scotland, for example. Does that mean they should all be forced to make use of these "facilities" ? Edited August 8, 2022 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said: Having a smartphone (how do they know everybody's age? and "having access" to the internet means zilch. 100% of the uk population has access to first-class intercontinental air travel and to all of the munros in Scotland, for example. Does that mean they should all be forced to make use of these "facilities" ? Exactly. And the demographics of attending football fans are not representative of the UK as a whole. Everything from age, to gender, to income, is massively skewed compared to the population as a whole. For all the inclusivity stuff that we witter on about, we don't seem to pay much mind to those (albeit small number) people (mainly older) who, for whatever reason, do not have access to the technology necessary to purchase e-tickets and so on. And the simply fact is, it does impact numbers. Sometimes at 2pm when I'm leaving for Firhill, my old man will drop me a text and say he wants to tag along as well. Fantastic! But now, unless I have his ticket all pre-booked for him, I'm not confident whether he will get a ticket outside the JHS, nor whether he will get into the ground on time. And for away fans - forget it! It might seem like a small thing, but it is something I'm really passionate about (and will bring up with TJF). It's just another example of the traditional aspects of football being eroded away in the name of convenience with little thought for those fans who were once the pay-at-the-gate punters who kept this bloody club going over the past how many years. Edited August 8, 2022 by Yellow & Redneck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, javeajag said: 87% of the uk population have a smart phone 92% of the uk population have access to the internet 83% of transactions in the UK are cashless unless thistle fans don’t represent the population as a whole then your point is misplaced I suspect that our support skews, at least partly, towards subsections of the population who are marginally less digitally engaged. For example, I would hazard an educated guess it skews older and that it skews (outside of season ticket-holders) towards the more economically disadvantaged. There is also the basic point that men's football crowds skew overwhelmingly male, though I don't know what that does for digital exclusion. I know Lloyds Banking Group did some work on this a few years ago: perhaps others have looked at this more recently? What your figures also do not account for is digital literacy. Owning a smart phone is not the same as being able to use a QR code or being able to use an online ticketing platform without problems. Similarly having access to the internet is not the same as being able to use it without assistance. While many transactions are cashless, and it is to be welcomed that football clubs are making it easier for people who want to to transact in a cashless manner, that doesn't address the exclusion of those who either can't or would prefer to undertake cash transactions, or in-person transactions. I therefore think it's important that we maintain those options where possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said: It might seem like a small thing, but it is something I'm really passionate about (and will bring up with TJF). It's just another example of the traditional aspects of football being eroded away in the name of convenience with little thought for those fans who were once the pay-at-the-gate punters who kept this bloody club going over the past how many years. You may have seen that we raised concerns about the (then) absence of a pay-on-the-day option for Thistle fans at Dens. Matchday accessibility is something we care about a great deal. One of the roles we see for TJF is as an advocate of supporter and matchday experience. We are able to bring an independent perspective on these sorts of issues, and advance the interests not just of Thistle fans but of football fans more widely in Scotland. A lot of these accommodations are about fostering an inclusive culture, where everyone wants to be at Firhill even if we're not winning every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Yellow & Redneck said: But that's just not accurate. Just because of the aforementioned stats, that does not mean that those people have the technical literacy to purchase things online. I have parents who have smartphone and access to the internet, but cannot purchase things online without help - nor do they feel comfortable doing it (safety concerns with card numbers, etc). Only around 55% of those 65+ purchase goods and services online (despite >75% having access to smartphones and the internet). There are a huge number of factors that extend beyond mere access to technology that impact someone's ability to purchase e-tickets to matches. Even on a pragmatic level, it becomes difficult to spontaneously attend a match in Scotland anymore. It has to be pre-planned, pre-arrange, pre-booked. Otherwise, you run the risk of not being able to get a ticket. Actually it is accurate and your points may be accurate as well ….but your figure of 55% for the over 65s is a 2020 statistic and will post pandemic be higher and I say that as an over 65 myself lots of I think of our support is this or that , seems to be and I suspect is …. Some data may be helpful rather than subjective assertions for example in order to get into summer nights at the bandstand you need a QR code and at van Morrison the average age must have been 60 ! ….didn’t seem to be an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Woodstock Jag said: I suspect that our support skews, at least partly, towards subsections of the population who are marginally less digitally engaged. For example, I would hazard an educated guess it skews older and that it skews (outside of season ticket-holders) towards the more economically disadvantaged. There is also the basic point that men's football crowds skew overwhelmingly male, though I don't know what that does for digital exclusion. I know Lloyds Banking Group did some work on this a few years ago: perhaps others have looked at this more recently? What your figures also do not account for is digital literacy. Owning a smart phone is not the same as being able to use a QR code or being able to use an online ticketing platform without problems. Similarly having access to the internet is not the same as being able to use it without assistance. While many transactions are cashless, and it is to be welcomed that football clubs are making it easier for people who want to to transact in a cashless manner, that doesn't address the exclusion of those who either can't or would prefer to undertake cash transactions, or in-person transactions. I therefore think it's important that we maintain those options where possible. You suspect , hazard a guess etc etc but don’t know and I might suspect or guess something else …. Some actual data is needed to run a business not ,however informed, guesses and speculation I’m not against providing other options btw but let’s be clear only 9% Of swedes used cash for payments in 2020 and the FIS estimates 98% of Australia will be cashless by 2024 … the direction of travel is clear Edited August 8, 2022 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 31 minutes ago, javeajag said: You suspect , hazard a guess etc etc but don’t know and I might suspect or guess something else …. Some actual data is needed to run a business not ,however informed, guesses and speculation I’m not against providing other options btw but let’s be clear only 9% Of swedes used cash for payments in 2020 and the FIS estimates 98% of Australia will be cashless by 2024 … the direction of travel is clear Actually, there seems to be a trend in the opposite direction at the moment towards more cash payments as a result of the cost of living crisis. I would attach the article if I knew how. But even the stats you presented of 83%cashless transactions. If there is no pay at the gate at Firhill, we are potentially excluding 17% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 36 minutes ago, javeajag said: You suspect , hazard a guess etc etc but don’t know and I might suspect or guess something else …. Some actual data is needed to run a business not ,however informed, guesses and speculation I’m not against providing other options btw but let’s be clear only 9% Of swedes used cash for payments in 2020 and the FIS estimates 98% of Australia will be cashless by 2024 … the direction of travel is clear I agree that the direction of travel with cashless payments is clear. I'm interested, though, in your data. In the interests of clarity, can you provide the source (the actual data that is needed to run a business) for the following: 1. Only 9% of Swedes used cash for payments in 2020. 2. 98% of Australia will be cashless by 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: If there is no pay at the gate at Firhill, we are potentially excluding 17% Potentially or potentially not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: I agree that the direction of travel with cashless payments is clear. I'm interested, though, in your data. In the interests of clarity, can you provide the source (the actual data that is needed to run a business) for the following: 1. Only 9% of Swedes used cash for payments in 2020. 2. 98% of Australia will be cashless by 2024. 1 is from www.Sweden.se 14/10/21 2. Is from a report on www.abc.com 25/12/21 Edited August 8, 2022 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, javeajag said: 1 is from www.Sweden.se 2. Is from a report on www.abc.com That's not at all helpful. Can you be more specific with links? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Just now, BowenBoys said: That's not at all helpful. Can you be more specific with links? I added the specific dates to be helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-26/cashless-society-economy-australia-covid/100725728 https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, javeajag said: You suspect , hazard a guess etc etc but don’t know and I might suspect or guess something else …. Some actual data is needed to run a business not ,however informed, guesses and speculation I’m not against providing other options btw but let’s be clear only 9% Of swedes used cash for payments in 2020 and the FIS estimates 98% of Australia will be cashless by 2024 … the direction of travel is clear I think it was 9.08% of Swedes actually Edited August 8, 2022 by sandy Removing the superfluous humour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, javeajag said: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-26/cashless-society-economy-australia-covid/100725728 https://sweden.se/life/society/a-cashless-society From the Australian article I get this; "Payment firm FIS predicts the nation could go 98 per cent cashless by 2024". They would say that, wouldn't they (© Mandy Rice-Davies). You understand the difference between will and could? The Swedish link leads me to a report by Riksbank https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-sweden/payments-in-sweden-2020/1.-the-payment-market-is-being-digitalised/cash-is-losing-ground/ It states that 9% of those questioned, in 2020, used cash for their last payment. That's a long way from "Only 9% of Swedes used cash for payments in 2020". As I said, I agree that cash payment are very much in decline. Making inflated claims doesn't help your argument though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Aye @BowenBoysI am with you on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 3 hours ago, Yellow & Redneck said: Exactly. And the demographics of attending football fans are not representative of the UK as a whole. Everything from age, to gender, to income, is massively skewed compared to the population as a whole. For all the inclusivity stuff that we witter on about, we don't seem to pay much mind to those (albeit small number) people (mainly older) who, for whatever reason, do not have access to the technology necessary to purchase e-tickets and so on. And the simply fact is, it does impact numbers. Sometimes at 2pm when I'm leaving for Firhill, my old man will drop me a text and say he wants to tag along as well. Fantastic! But now, unless I have his ticket all pre-booked for him, I'm not confident whether he will get a ticket outside the JHS, nor whether he will get into the ground on time. And for away fans - forget it! It might seem like a small thing, but it is something I'm really passionate about (and will bring up with TJF). It's just another example of the traditional aspects of football being eroded away in the name of convenience with little thought for those fans who were once the pay-at-the-gate punters who kept this bloody club going over the past how many years. The hot topic of the moment! OS now has info up about QP next Saturday at Stenhousemuir. All very helpful etc etc BUT no mention if there is a PATG on Saturday (and whether they accept cash). Do they not realise that there are people (eg Y&R's dad) who wake up on Sat morning and decide because they are free after all or because the weather forecast is good they'd like to go to a match? As the vagaries of the Scottish climate become obvious as autumn and winter approach, weather on the day of a match can often be the deciding factor. I shouldn't have to contact QP to get an answer to my question. PT staff are not entirely innocent either. Why can't they ask the question when the home team supply them with the details? Never ceases to amaze me the lengths Scottish football will go to to deter people attending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 3 hours ago, javeajag said: 87% of the uk population have a smart phone 92% of the uk population have access to the internet 83% of transactions in the UK are cashless unless thistle fans don’t represent the population as a whole then your point is misplaced My Dad who’s a Season Ticket holder for nearly 40 years continuously, and has been attending since late 1940’s does not use or own a smartphone, we have a pretty high percentage of more senior fans and a lot will be in the same boat. We need to ensure it’s easy for ALL fans to get in so QR codes, app’s plus cash and card payment options need to stay so we don’t alienate even a few fans from a relatively small support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 1 hour ago, javeajag said: Potentially or potentially not Cutting off a revenue stream is madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 23 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:PT staff are not entirely innocent either. Why can't they ask the question when the home team supply them with the details? Think you are being harsh to blame PT staff for an away game. For all you know, they have asked the question and are waiting for an answer from Queen’s Park staff but in the meantime are opening up the opportunity for fans who want to, to pre-purchase their tickets in advance. As long as a cash gate(or lack of) is confirmed by Thursday/Friday, does it really matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted August 8, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Just now, G SUS said: Think you are being harsh to blame PT staff for an away game. For all you know, they have asked the question and are waiting for an answer from Queen’s Park staff but in the meantime are opening up the opportunity for fans who want to, to pre-purchase their tickets in advance. As long as a cash gate(or lack of) is confirmed by Thursday/Friday, does it really matter? It does believe it or not. There is one original Glasgow southsider who is over from Brussels this weekend (holiday weekend over there) and who wants to attend the game with me, but also has other commitments to fit into his long weekend schedule. He will quite rightly prioritise family/personal business if he cannot be certain of paying cash on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, BowenBoys said: From the Australian article I get this; "Payment firm FIS predicts the nation could go 98 per cent cashless by 2024". They would say that, wouldn't they (© Mandy Rice-Davies). You understand the difference between will and could? The Swedish link leads me to a report by Riksbank https://www.riksbank.se/en-gb/payments--cash/payments-in-sweden/payments-in-sweden-2020/1.-the-payment-market-is-being-digitalised/cash-is-losing-ground/ It states that 9% of those questioned, in 2020, used cash for their last payment. That's a long way from "Only 9% of Swedes used cash for payments in 2020". As I said, I agree that cash payment are very much in decline. Making inflated claims doesn't help your argument though. Well I was in Australia for the whole of April and May and used cash on one occasion in that whole time and rarely ever saw it being used. my point still stands https://www.9news.com.au/national/australia-cash-use-declining-predicted-to-be-two-per-cent-value-in-2025/29a6febb-f8ab-49cf-9462-56fd20a22a33 And I don’t agree I was making inflated claims on Sweden https://blog.ingenico.com/posts/2022/01/the-nordic-countries-ready-to-say-goodbye-to-cash.html Edited August 8, 2022 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said: It does believe it or not. There is one original Glasgow southsider who is over from Brussels this weekend (holiday weekend over there) and who wants to attend the game with me, but also has other commitments to fit into his long weekend schedule. He will quite rightly prioritise family/personal business if he cannot be certain of paying cash on Saturday. They could pay you in cash and you could purchase both tickets online. Or he could buy his ticket online. Or he could make a decision closer to the weekend - unlike the Dundee debacle at least you can buy a ticket right up to kick off. None of which is the fault of PT staff who have presumably asked the question and are waiting on an answer, otherwise the info would be published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiThistle Posted August 8, 2022 Report Share Posted August 8, 2022 Just want to take a moment to point out that if this all becomes a scandal, we all need to refer to it as “Gategate”… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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