javeajag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 24 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Obviously not the same budget as McCall or we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in financially A fact free assertion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 22 minutes ago, dl1971 said: The reality of what the game showed us ( and the one against Arbroath ) is that we won't be challenging for the title. I think Dundee United are far superior to Dundee of last year. So realistically we were unlikely to challenge as this team is not as good as 22/23. Given the financial state of flux its play offs at best. As for Doolans signings to date the jury is well and truly out. For a new manager not exactly surprising, but yes he will and should be judged. If we can get mcmillan back soon and milne gets back to last year's form that would make a huge difference. Last point some posters suggested that some players were passable yesterday ( strong drink must have been taken ) but this was a collective failure all over the park ( bar lawless maybe for some of first half ). Last point. I hope Muirhead has a large fine coming for getting sent off in his historically stupid manner. Utterly pointless. Doolan has yo take responsibility for signing numerous midfielders none of which are the defensive pivot we need and leaving central defence dependant on muirhead . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, javeajag said: A fact free assertion True , but if you add in the soft loans we had to take on to pay the wages , it’s highly unlikely Doolan’s budget is anywhere near MCCalls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: True , but if you add in the soft loans we had to take on to pay the wages , it’s highly unlikely Doolan’s budget is anywhere near MCCalls As I said we don’t know …..remember the former chairman did doolan extra funds as well so the gap may not be as large as we think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Blair Lyons Re James Lyon , came into the team , did well and also scored a few goals, now can’t even get into the squad. Remember Blair Lyons now - never saw him play! I think we may agree on James Lyon - he looked ok in the brief game-time he got at the start of the season and I would prefer to see someone from our Academy given a chance rather than the failing midfielders currently playing or filling the bench. We have lacked a good defensive midfielder for three seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Winter of '63 said: Are we financially in a mess? I have been reading about the Directors falling out over which £500,000 investment to take up. There are valid criticisms to be made about McCall such as his reluctance to use sports science and match analysis but he didn't set the playing budget. How do you know any of the above is correct ? who said he didn't use Sports Science or Match Analysis ? thats just made up nonsense Edited October 22, 2023 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) I think Doolan deserves some leeway. Last season's run was spectacular. I think he's bright, positive, brave and a good communicator and has lots of good attributes to be successful. He also has the whole legend thing, which is maybe worth something (but shouldn't be overplayed). But I also think he's possibly a bit naive as a manager, and has a lot to learn. This is natural, given that he's been thrown in to his first job with minimal preparation. As long as he learns, and I think he's the type of person who will, I have confidence. But he must accept that yesterday was unacceptable. I don't mind losing to a better team, but that was an embarrassing and indisciplined collapse. As a squad of players we are much better than that. I wouldn't read too much into our capabilities, based on yesterday. I still think we're definitely good enough to finish in play off. But the attitude yesterday was beyond questionable. Regarding comments on Harry Milne, he'll come good again I think. You don't just become a bad player, but you can lose confidence. I suspect that's all it is, and a few decent performances, and breaks, will see him right. Edited October 22, 2023 by allyo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, javeajag said: Doolan has yo take responsibility for signing numerous midfielders none of which are the defensive pivot we need and leaving central defence dependant on muirhead . This is the key point. Yes the managers budget is probably not as big as the previous manager and yes we need to be realistic in our expectations this year but to have either not recruited a CDM or choose to find out if Williamson is a better option is entirely on Doolan. Yesterday United had Sibbald and Docherty playing in front of their back 4 and both strolled the game. However one thing caught my eye beyond their dominance. Both the United midfielders provided an attacking threat yesterday. Sibbald scored, Docherty has a couple of sights at goal and hit the bar second half. As far as I remember McInroy had one or 2 shots and that was it from our midfield two. I don't remember the last time I saw Bannigan be a threat in the opposition box (maybe the playoff game against County when he blazed it over the bar?). If Bannigan isn't a CDM and he isn't a box to box player and he isn't a creative midfielder - what is he? We play Queens and Ayr next. I've not seen much of Queens but I know against Ayr we were lucky we had Steven Lawless because our midfield 2 were hopeless (Stanway, Bannigan). Stanway was kept in the team against Arbroath the following week despite it being pretty obvious that the midfield needed to change and we got thrashed by Arbroath. Our home win against Dunfermline and away point at ICT are just papering over the cracks of our midfield deficiencies. So if Stanway got dropped to fix the midfield who gets dropped to fix it after yesterday? Process of elimination would suggest Bannigan but I would bet we see the same 2 against Queens in another attempt to ignore the obvious and if someone needs to get dropped it isn't Bannigan. Apologies to return to picking on Bannigan but its very obvious he is untouchable despite not doing anything to deserve that status. Its now getting to the point were Doolan's position is at more risk than Bannigan's starting position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Fearchar said: Perhaps we should go all-out for a continental arrangement and appoint a Director of Football to hire and fire, leaving Doolan to coach the first team. It's clear that we have one or two gaps: an outright hard man that won't accept defeat and a defensive midfielder. (They could be the same person.) Two good points. Football is littered with good coaches that fall short when it comes to other aspects of management (recruitment/contracting of players being one such department of management). For example take Ian Cathro. Couldn't manage a fish supper (ask any Jambo) but a highly rated coach, who probably demands a salary most Scottish managers could only dream about. Same of course the other way round. So having a D of F behind the scenes makes complete sense. Your point re a hard man defensive midfielder is so true it hardly needs mentioning. Our last line defence isn't that bad, more over exposed. Regardless we need a ball winner ala Rowson/Osman/Paton. Lose the ball and we struggle to get it back. Sadly we probably haven't the finances to bring in further management too soon. We can't do anything about defensive mid till January and even then we'd have contracted midfielders earning a salary and not even making the bench. So as any team we field will lack that midfield muscle we naturally need as high a percentage of ball retention as possible. That's something that's going to be extremely difficult to attain if we can't get the ball moving quickly enough. (See Jaggernaut's recent post and my semi rant last night) Edited October 22, 2023 by lady-isobel-barnett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Winter of '63 said: Mansell was signed by Caldwell. Akinola looked a good defender until whatever happened, Brownlie likewise until he got injured. Not sure who Lyons is but I am perplexed why James Lyon was given a two year extension but is behind Williamson, Alston & McInroy who have been overwhelmingly unimpressive. Hard to impress when you only get 5 mins here & 10 mins there. As for McInroy, yesterday proved he is not a DM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 8 hours ago, Jaggernaut said: That's my major criticism of Sneddon. Loves to leave the ball on the ground while he looks around the park for where to boot it, then pretends to be about to boot it when a player starts to run in on him, player stops, so more looking around by Sneddon before finally, the (too often inaccurate) punt. Or, loves just standing clutching the ball, , looking around as if he'll boot it, but then after 10 seconds he rolls it 3 yards to a defender, who then boots it........ And this is all when we are trailing the other team by one or more goals!! Sneddon was the least of our problems yesterday (no energy in midfield, next to nothing from our wide players, another anonymous performance from BBG). I've noted the consistent criticism that he is too slow to release the ball. Next game check out the frequency with which players make themselves available. Our collective running off the ball & finding space is really poor, exemplified yesterday by players regularly receiving a pass with 2 or 3 Utd players around them. Result - we turnover the ball & concede goals when the opposition has players of higher ability than the rest of the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Jimbo said: As for McInroy, yesterday proved he is not a DM. Obviously given my previous posts I'm not going to disagree. But sadly it might well be he's our best option in DM. Certainly thought so after the Pars game and the ICT result. We'll possibly try Alston there but he'll likely be no more effective defensively than either Williamson or Stanway have been. I sense playing McInroy deeper is the best way to get him and Robinson starting. I reckon starting those two is our best option. I am tho' clutching at straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen1876 Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 I actually thought Williamson was decent at the start of the season, and we fell out of the Airdrie and Raith games when he went off. Strange how he has just dropped out of the picture, and Alston hasn’t yet even been in the picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Two good points. Football is littered with good coaches that fall short when it comes to other aspects of management (recruitment/contracting of players being one such department of management). For example take Ian Cathro. Couldn't manage a fish supper (ask any Jambo) but a highly rated coach, who probably demands a salary most Scottish managers could only dream about. Same of course the other way round. So having a D of F behind the scenes makes complete sense. Your point re a hard man defensive midfielder is so true it hardly needs mentioning. Our last line defence isn't that bad, more over exposed. Regardless we need a ball winner ala Rowson/Osman/Paton. Lose the ball and we struggle to get it back. Sadly we probably haven't the finances to bring in further management too soon. We can't do anything about defensive mid till January and even then we'd have contracted midfielders earning a salary and not even making the bench. So as any team we field will lack that midfield muscle we naturally need as high a percentage of ball retention as possible. That's something that's going to be extremely difficult to attain if we can't get the ball moving quickly enough. (See Jaggernaut's recent post and my semi rant last night) We have the Finances to be recruiting more staff for the Office ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Obviously given my previous posts I'm not going to disagree. But sadly it might well be he's our best option in DM. Certainly thought so after the Pars game and the ICT result. We'll possibly try Alston there but he'll likely be no more effective defensively than either Williamson or Stanway have been. I sense playing McInroy deeper is the best way to get him and Robinson starting. I reckon starting those two is our best option. I am tho' clutching at straws. Agree that starting Robinson and McInroy is our best option. Now Fitzpatrick is out I think Robinson needs to fill out in wide midfield as McDonald isn't good enough and Robinson seems to be the only one with pace. I thought Dundee United came with a game plan which was to deny our central defenders and McInroy the ball. In general United targeted McInroy for extra attention partly because he is our only midfielder capable of controlling a game. Partly because they new the rest of our midfield was nothing to worry about. 6 minutes ago, Stephen1876 said: I actually thought Williamson was decent at the start of the season, and we fell out of the Airdrie and Raith games when he went off. Strange how he has just dropped out of the picture, and Alston hasn’t yet even been in the picture I agree with this. Don't see what Willamson did/didn't do whilst on the park that meant he should be bannished. Williamson might not be the answer but not to have tried him alongside McInroy looks odd. If he's not going to play why not end the loan? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) I left at 3-0 yesterday - first time I've ever left early. It wasn't because of the game - I wasn't feeling good for other reasons. I actually thought we were in the game for lengthy spells when it was 1-0 without making many clearcut chances. Defending was poor for the three goals I saw though. I can understand why we started with Bannigan and McInroy yesterday, because there were signs of a decent partnership forming recently, but obviously they were stretched and exposed yesterday. Williamson and Alston must be wondering when they'll get their chance... I might be being naive, but I think it's too early to judge McDonald - I still think there's a chance he'll make a decent contribution. James Lyon is mentioned in some of the posts on this thread - isn't he injured? All in all, a horrible result and scoreline, but I think I'll reserve judgement for our games against other teams in the division. Lastly, it's so f'ing Thistle for an ex-player to scoring a bloody hat-trick on his return to Firhill... I was messaging my United supporting pal during the game, saying Holt was odds-on to score. Didn't expect three though! Edited October 22, 2023 by fenski typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a f kincaid Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 Two observations. With McMillan injured, Lawless has been far less effective. We've had 3 blank sheets out of the 4 games he's missed. Their combination play down the wing has reaped benefits with entertaining and effective cut-backs and goals from close in. That option has largely disappeared. It's a pity because it's not long since posts on here were suggesting Lawless was playing the best football in his time at Firhill. Speedy recovery by McMillian is needed to make the best of him. Agree with earlier posts there was little pressure down the wings. Fitzpatrick on his game shows how dangerous he can be - even if spasmodically at times. (Again speedy recovery please.) That said however there have been several occasions where hasn't tracked back and left opposition players in lots of space and the right-hand side of the back four exposed. Count the goals we've lost at the back post this season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: We have the Finances to be recruiting more staff for the Office ? Have we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, a f kincaid said: Agree with earlier posts there was little pressure down the wings. Fitzpatrick on his game shows how dangerous he can be - even if spasmodically at times. (Again speedy recovery please.) That said however there have been several occasions where hasn't tracked back and left opposition players in lots of space and the right-hand side of the back four exposed. Count the goals we've lost at the back post this season. Fitzpatrick has pulled up a couple of times in games recently. I wonder if he is carrying some kind of injury or maybe a fitness issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 5 hours ago, dpj said: Rather confused by the typical BBC report as apparently Sibbald 'scored the game's only goal' according to picture caption above report. Does no one ever proof read anything! 🤦♂️ https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67073709 I saw that too. Does that mean we can amend the official result to 0-1? Would at least help with the goal difference and be less of a dent in the players' confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: How do you know any of the above is correct ? who said he didn't use Sports Science or Match Analysis ? thats just made up nonsense A bit like you saying we are still paying McCall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 19 minutes ago, scotty said: Fitzpatrick has pulled up a couple of times in games recently. I wonder if he is carrying some kind of injury or maybe a fitness issue? Hamstring injury apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jagfox said: A bit like you saying we are still paying McCall? McCall was on a rolling contract just like Archie and he gets paid either till the end of the contract or when he is employed by someone else Edited October 22, 2023 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 A very poor display albeit against a decent opponent. I have zero inside facts but I'd be very surprised if we didn't have the second highest wage bill in this league yet I struggle to see the worth of the money we have spent. Our signings have been, almost to a man very poor, and we look a shadow of the team which finished last season. I hope Doolan can turn it around but I confess to fearing he can't and I also fear about the state of our off field affairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jagfox said: A bit like you saying we are still paying McCall? We are - he is on a 12 Month Contract So how do you know he didn't use Sport Science or Analysis Edited October 22, 2023 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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