Fawlty Towers Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 5 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: In fairness Clyde have had a few draws and they won last week so they have been slowly improving Well McCall does not like a rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 This round of results make it look much like a battle between DU & Raith for 1 & 2, and between us & Morton for 3 & 4. We & Morton both have to play the top 2 twice in the run in. Morton have the momentum, but we have 2 more points. So despite Friday's awful result , we're still looking good for a playoff place. The competition is reassuringly far behind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grubber8468 Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 Does anyone know the boy that was scudded by car outside JL stand just before full time? He managed to get up and run away but had been skelped by car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 3 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said: Well McCall does not like a rush. Interestingly we sacked him around this time last Year for being 10 points behind the league leaders ? But Im sure the Munnites and those “ in the know” will have lots of reasons why its different this Season and for the Record - I like Dools and hope he does well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 Well in that case maybe you should just leave it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Very Bitter Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: Interestingly we sacked him around this time last Year for being 10 points behind the league leaders ? But Im sure the Munnites and those “ in the know” will have lots of reasons why its different this Season Honest to God JJ, if you want my forum name just ask! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 Having had a couple of days to calm down after Friday's omnishambles a few things are still annoying me 1. Will the club be asking for an apology from the SFA for the mistakes made by the referee and will any such apology be made public? I'm not particularly keen on going down the Sevco moanfest route but we need to stop being seen as a soft touch 2. Next season there is likely to be a more even chance of winning the league assuming Dundee United are promoted and Livingston come down. It could well be the best chance of promotion for the next few years. Are we sure we have the right coaching team to make the most of that opportunity? Doolan has been ok but I see no real signs of a team developing for a title challenge next year, instead we appear to rely heavily on aging campaigners (Muirhead, Bannigan, Graham, Lawless) or players we are at high risk of losing (McMillan) with only really Fitzpatrick and Milne signed for next year to base a team about we would need an incredibly good summer recruitment. The real question is who do we trust to do that recruitment? 3. McMillan seems to be broken. Unless he has a PCA then are Premiership clubs must be noticing his inability to complete games. Perhaps we should be trying to get him to sign an extension? Also whilst Neilson is a very good player I can't imagine he would be starting for Hearts next season or any other premiership team, should we not be asking Hearts to extend his loan or seeing if a permanent transfer is possible? 4. The real advantage if getting a proper sitting CDM like McBeth would be that you can play 2 midfielders who are more creative particularly at home. That means not playing Bannigan and going with two from McInroy, Robinson and Alston or alternatively changing formation. We lost 3 at ICT why did we start the same midfield trio? Having lots 3 again with our regular back 4 who now gets dropped to address the defensive issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 League table the day Ian McCall was sacked. 23 games played, 33 points, 5th place. 1.43 points per game. 42 goals scored. 38 goals against. League table after same number of games under Doolan: 23 games played, 38 points, 3rd place. 46 goals scored. 37 goals against. You cannot credibly argue that this season has gone less well in the League so far than last season. And if you try to you're not a serious person. Absolutely recent form is a bit naff and it is concerning that Morton are closing in a bit. But let's just remember that Ian McCall had us losing to part-time Cove Rangers and in-freefall Hamilton Academical. If Ian McCall had had us five points better off than he did at that point in the season he wouldn't have been sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, laukat said: Having had a couple of days to calm down after Friday's omnishambles a few things are still annoying me 1. Will the club be asking for an apology from the SFA for the mistakes made by the referee and will any such apology be made public? I'm not particularly keen on going down the Sevco moanfest route but we need to stop being seen as a soft touch Quote The Firhill club are also aggrieved at key decisions against them in other recent games and will write to the Scottish FA to raise their concerns. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/68391816 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 1 minute ago, Woodstock Jag said: League table the day Ian McCall was sacked. 23 games played, 33 points, 5th place. 1.43 points per game. 42 goals scored. 38 goals against. League table after same number of games under Doolan: 23 games played, 38 points, 3rd place. 46 goals scored. 37 goals against. You cannot credibly argue that this season has gone less well in the League so far than last season. And if you try to you're not a serious person. Absolutely recent form is a bit naff and it is concerning that Morton are closing in a bit. But let's just remember that Ian McCall had us losing to part-time Cove Rangers and in-freefall Hamilton Academical. If Ian McCall had had us five points better off than he did at that point in the season he wouldn't have been sacked. He was sacked because the Board stated that they did not believe he would get us promoted - at that point he was 10 Points off the League Leaders - exactly the same position where we are now !! So lets not rewrite History- he was sacked for being 10 Points behind the League Leaders - the Key Difference was that last February we were going bust - Promotion was at the Point the only thing between PTFC still being in Business or disappearing & the Board were desperate There were also Directors ( & various Influential Fans) who were looking for any excuse to sack McCall - simply because they didn't like him as a Person Ultimately the Logic for Sacking him turned out to be the Wrong Decision by the Board - we were not promoted ( but by that time we had various Loans etc to keep us Going - and Funny Enough Sacked the Guy who gave us £125K - we seem to have a habit of treating people badly ) I've not stated this Season "has gone less well" - its roughly were I expected us to be - and last Season was also Roughly what I expected it to be So we are clear - we are not a comparable Club between this Season & last Season - McCall had been working under a Jlo Board - the Club was going bust - there was this "temporary board" Club was a carcrash on every level - yet the "Munnites & the Thistle Twitterati" were desperate to get rid of him & had been calling for his sacking for Weeks beforehand ( and I will repeat the manner in which it was done after the Rangers Game was shameful) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 55 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: League table the day Ian McCall was sacked. 23 games played, 33 points, 5th place. 1.43 points per game. 42 goals scored. 38 goals against. League table after same number of games under Doolan: 23 games played, 38 points, 3rd place. 46 goals scored. 37 goals against. You cannot credibly argue that this season has gone less well in the League so far than last season. And if you try to you're not a serious person. Absolutely recent form is a bit naff and it is concerning that Morton are closing in a bit. But let's just remember that Ian McCall had us losing to part-time Cove Rangers and in-freefall Hamilton Academical. If Ian McCall had had us five points better off than he did at that point in the season he wouldn't have been sacked. And Doolan has a smaller budget than last season? And didn’t know what division we were going to be playing in until June… plus he’s just completed only his first year in management versus McCall who has loads of managerial experience (and I wish McCall all the best in saving Clyde, even if I’d much prefer he saved any other team 😁). But moving on from the McCall v Doolan debate because Kris IS our manger….. Lots of things need addressing including our defence our game management lack of pace and physicality (amply exposed by a struggling Livingston, albeit they have benefited from top league revenue) a lack of a plan B when things aren’t going our way, too much dependency on our front 3 to keep digging the team out of a hole But Rome wasn’t built in a day and it probably can’t all be fixed until we go through another transfer window Whilst we could slip our 3rd spot between now and the end of the season, I was really impressed by McBeth who might add some sorely needed steel to the midfield, and OReilly will hopefully be available soon to shore up the defence, and/or we pull someone in on loan. And maybe if Stewart gets a couple of games under his belt his sharpness will improve or Mitchell comes back and does the same. Reasons to be optimistic but not complacent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 4 minutes ago, JAG1970 said: And Doolan has a smaller budget than last season? And didn’t know what division we were going to be playing in until June… plus he’s just completed only his first year in management versus McCall who has loads of managerial experience (and I wish McCall all the best in saving Clyde, even if I’d much prefer he saved any other team 😁). But moving on from the McCall v Doolan debate because Kris IS our manger….. Lots of things need addressing including our defence our game management lack of pace and physicality (amply exposed by a struggling Livingston, albeit they have benefited from top league revenue) a lack of a plan B when things aren’t going our way, too much dependency on our front 3 to keep digging the team out of a hole But Rome wasn’t built in a day and it probably can’t all be fixed until we go through another transfer window Whilst we could slip our 3rd spot between now and the end of the season, I was really impressed by McBeth who might add some sorely needed steel to the midfield, and OReilly will hopefully be available soon to shore up the defence, and/or we pull someone in on loan. And maybe if Stewart gets a couple of games under his belt his sharpness will improve or Mitchell comes back and does the same. Reasons to be optimistic but not complacent. Agreed And I stated from the outset - I like Dools and hope he succeeds ( not forgetting McCall brought him back to the Club as a Youth Coach ) However some of the Vitriol handed about by those who influence things at Thistle against McCall - who was working under difficult circumstances with various Boards & a Carcrash in Finances - and the Vendettas from some at PTFC - were disgraceful On both occasions he has been Manager -he left the Club in a better position than he found it As for the Board - we will soon see if there the Correct Choice over the Next Few Months If McCall keeps Clyde up it will be some turnaround Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 In days of old The Munnites would have been put to the sword by the combined forces of the Warriors of Strathmore and the Knights of the Star & Garter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 20 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: In days of old The Munnites would have been put to the sword by the combined forces of the Warriors of Strathmore and the Knights of the Star & Garter. Not to Forget the Holy Order of the Firhill Tavern 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert's Ghost Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 They'd have fallen by the Woodside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 I love McCall and he was treated harshly and I also love Doolan and want him to succeed as he is a legend and a great guy. Can we put the past to bed and support the team and club? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laukat Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said: League table the day Ian McCall was sacked. 23 games played, 33 points, 5th place. 1.43 points per game. 42 goals scored. 38 goals against. League table after same number of games under Doolan: 23 games played, 38 points, 3rd place. 46 goals scored. 37 goals against. You cannot credibly argue that this season has gone less well in the League so far than last season. And if you try to you're not a serious person. Absolutely recent form is a bit naff and it is concerning that Morton are closing in a bit. But let's just remember that Ian McCall had us losing to part-time Cove Rangers and in-freefall Hamilton Academical. If Ian McCall had had us five points better off than he did at that point in the season he wouldn't have been sacked. Not sure how you get from my question "how does he compare to McCall?" Using your tables above McCall was 10 points off 1st place when sacked. Doolan is currently 10 points off 1st place. I liked McCall but totally understood the need for change because we could see his inflexible approach to tactics, poor use of subs and we knew that he wouldn't be able to get us promotion. I would also add that he was very loyal to his coaching team and perhaps that cost him his job. Doolan came in and did a better job of managing McCall's team than McCall last season as he was tactically more flexible. However this season Doolan is showing signs he's struggling. His tactics are almost as inflexible as McCall, his subs often make things worse and recruitment is poor (although perhaps there are some mitigating circumstances on that front) So my question still stands - "It could well be the best chance of promotion for the next few years. Are we sure we have the right coaching team to make the most of that opportunity?" We don't necessarily need to remove Doolan but that shouldn't be off the table. Its entirely possible that there needs to be another voice added to the coaching staff or that McDonald or Arthur aren't what we need. Just because Doolan is a playing legend shouldn't make him or his team immune from scrutiny. Also what do we determine as success and a minimum level of performance this season for the management team? We always knew automatic promotion was off the table. I think a reasonable expectation was 3rd. If we fail to make the playoffs is that below acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 3 minutes ago, laukat said: Not sure how you get from my question "how does he compare to McCall?" Using your tables above McCall was 10 points off 1st place when sacked. Doolan is currently 10 points off 1st place. I liked McCall but totally understood the need for change because we could see his inflexible approach to tactics, poor use of subs and we knew that he wouldn't be able to get us promotion. I would also add that he was very loyal to his coaching team and perhaps that cost him his job. Doolan came in and did a better job of managing McCall's team than McCall last season as he was tactically more flexible. However this season Doolan is showing signs he's struggling. His tactics are almost as inflexible as McCall, his subs often make things worse and recruitment is poor (although perhaps there are some mitigating circumstances on that front) So my question still stands - "It could well be the best chance of promotion for the next few years. Are we sure we have the right coaching team to make the most of that opportunity?" We don't necessarily need to remove Doolan but that shouldn't be off the table. Its entirely possible that there needs to be another voice added to the coaching staff or that McDonald or Arthur aren't what we need. Just because Doolan is a playing legend shouldn't make him or his team immune from scrutiny. Also what do we determine as success and a minimum level of performance this season for the management team? We always knew automatic promotion was off the table. I think a reasonable expectation was 3rd. If we fail to make the playoffs is that below acceptable? When Graham's contract extension was announced in December it made mention of a player coach role so that might change the dynamic. The former Chairnman stated that getting in to the play offs was the target this season so assuming the board have not changed their thinking on that 4th (or better) would be meeting the target set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 17 minutes ago, laukat said: Not sure how you get from my question "how does he compare to McCall?" So my question still stands - "It could well be the best chance of promotion for the next few years. Are we sure we have the right coaching team to make the most of that opportunity?" We don't necessarily need to remove Doolan but that shouldn't be off the table. Its entirely possible that there needs to be another voice added to the coaching staff or that McDonald or Arthur aren't what we need. Just because Doolan is a playing legend shouldn't make him or his team immune from scrutiny. It’s a strange question to ask. I genuinely don’t think there is a single Thistle fan who is sure that we have the right coaching team. Most see Doolan as a promising young rookie who might be the manager to take us forward. I agree that a defensive coach might be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 23 hours ago, Albert's Ghost said: This round of results make it look much like a battle between DU & Raith for 1 & 2, and between us & Morton for 3 & 4. We & Morton both have to play the top 2 twice in the run in. Morton have the momentum, but we have 2 more points. So despite Friday's awful result , we're still looking good for a playoff place. The competition is reassuringly far behind. The perfect set of midweek results imo would be. First and foremost We beat Ayr Raith beat Morton Dundee Utd beat Airdrie Those results would just about guarantee us to finish in the top 4. Our next 3 home games are big ones, Dundee Utd, Raith Rovers and Morton, let's hope we get big crowds for them, although with the Raith Rovers game being a Tuesday night and also on BBC Scotland that will affect the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 56 minutes ago, laukat said: Not sure how you get from my question "how does he compare to McCall?" Using your tables above McCall was 10 points off 1st place when sacked. Doolan is currently 10 points off 1st place. I liked McCall but totally understood the need for change because we could see his inflexible approach to tactics, poor use of subs and we knew that he wouldn't be able to get us promotion. I would also add that he was very loyal to his coaching team and perhaps that cost him his job. Doolan came in and did a better job of managing McCall's team than McCall last season as he was tactically more flexible. However this season Doolan is showing signs he's struggling. His tactics are almost as inflexible as McCall, his subs often make things worse and recruitment is poor (although perhaps there are some mitigating circumstances on that front) So my question still stands - "It could well be the best chance of promotion for the next few years. Are we sure we have the right coaching team to make the most of that opportunity?" We don't necessarily need to remove Doolan but that shouldn't be off the table. Its entirely possible that there needs to be another voice added to the coaching staff or that McDonald or Arthur aren't what we need. Just because Doolan is a playing legend shouldn't make him or his team immune from scrutiny. Also what do we determine as success and a minimum level of performance this season for the management team? We always knew automatic promotion was off the table. I think a reasonable expectation was 3rd. If we fail to make the playoffs is that below acceptable? My Concern is that lack of a dedicated Fitness Coach - we seem to Flag later on in the Games - which tends to suggest heavy legs Our expectations are the Play Offs its as simple as that Its unlikely in any Season we will have the Cash to win the League outright - so it has to be Play Offs as a target Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 36 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: My Concern is that lack of a dedicated Fitness Coach - we seem to Flag later on in the Games - which tends to suggest heavy legs Our expectations are the Play Offs its as simple as that Its unlikely in any Season we will have the Cash to win the League outright - so it has to be Play Offs as a target Which, two thirds of the season in, Doolan is in and McCall was out. It’s quite simple really. Kris Doolan is a better football manager than Ian McCall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 25 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said: Which, two thirds of the season in, Doolan is in and McCall was out. It’s quite simple really. Kris Doolan is a better football manager than Ian McCall. He’s a better manager with the same group of players, certainly. However, we’re to see if he’s as good at recruitment as McCall (which was his main strength). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said: My Concern is that lack of a dedicated Fitness Coach - we seem to Flag later on in the Games - which tends to suggest heavy legs Very noticeable against both Raith & Dundee Utd. Of course we could be just as fit (or unfit) as most of the others. But as we often end up a game chasing the ball, whilst are opponents control both the ball and the tempo, we struggle that bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 53 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: Very noticeable against both Raith & Dundee Utd. Of course we could be just as fit (or unfit) as most of the others. But as we often end up a game chasing the ball, whilst are opponents control both the ball and the tempo, we struggle that bit more. And Livvy along with the legs going - concentration goes which tends to lead to mistakes The silly thing about fitness -of all things in Football its the easiest to address 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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