javeajag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 28 minutes ago, scotty said: We have no money to sack the manager and bring in someone else. Clearly you have missed a few things…. Ok…..wasiri Williams was announced on 26 June, Ben Williamson announced on 18 July, tominadeloye 27 July, Blair Alston 29 July, Kerr mcinroy 3 August , etc etc…that we signed them mostly in July is not really that big a deal. A look at when other clubs signed their players will tell you that. Unless you’re implying we just signed players for the sake of signing players. most fans thought with our budget and squad we should at least be in the play offs….. the real point is that doolans recruitment and squad building has been poor and is now compounded with poor form. we do have money to sack the manager ( same line was used in not sacking McCall if you recall.) we have just received a £500k investment with another £500k on the way ! Doolan has had a year to improve our defence and it’s getting worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Personally, assuming that our form does not completely fall off a cliff to the point where we are looking at the other end of the table. I'd want to keep Doolan on for another close season. I like the fact we score so many goals. There is a lot going right to achieve this. We are still third and his overall ppg record is still decent. It was always likely we would hit a run of bad form (in all three of McCall's Championship seasons we had dreadful runs of 5 or more games without a win). However, mistakes were obviously made in defensive recruitment. There were mitigating factors in this (in my opinion, I know others disagree), and of course this was Doolan's first ever recruitment window. He did show last season that he can set up a team to defend competently with the right personnel. He's been (partially) unlucky this window in that I don't think we had much to spend, and the one centre back added (which looked the right kind of player) is now injured. The goalkeeper situation is perplexing. However, I would like to see if he is capable of fixing the defence in another close season, in which case we could be very successful with the goals we score. If he proves not up to the task then I accept we would have to look elsewhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Just a couple of specific points from last night. Brown counteracted our initial attacking play by deploying McAllistair (No2) further up the field. That left Fitzpatrick with more space but we still continued to play the bulk of balls down our right thru Lawless & McMillan. Lawless was double marked most of the night. Milne eventually exploited that freedom on the left. At no time did the wingers switch flanks to widen the game. Realise I'm pointing out an attacking error when really the bigger crime is in defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 This narrative about the target not being relegated is in my opinion complete defeatist nonsense. We have one of the highest budgets in the league which is factually the single biggest indicator on league position. Despite losing players still have a number who were stars in a side who could have won the league last season. Our new signings weren't last minute panic buys nor where they cheap players noone else would touch; a Rangers loanee who was a starter for team who won the league last year, three(?) midfielders who played in the side who won the league two years ago, a defender who signed for decent money to Hearts and played a number of games in the top league last year and a striker who was one of the leagues top scorers two years back. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, scotty said: All the usual posters reappearing I see. "Thistle are rubbish, the manager's rubbish, the board are rubbish and the team is rubbish and all we need to do is go back to the old ways when life was so much better." The thing is we are where we are. We have no money to sack the manager and bring in someone else. Doolan got the job because he was already on the payroll and was all we could afford. Our signings were done late because we were in the playoffs and couldn't afford to gamble on getting promoted. The board is in a period of transition due to changes enforced by people playing petty power games with our club. We are a fan owned club due to the fact that no-one wanted to invest in the 3rd/4th financially attractive club in Glasgow and the shareholders at the time were desperate to divest themselves of their responsibilty for a football club. For me this season's goal should realistically be staying in this division. Being third, at this stage, is shooting above our level as we need this season to build for promotion next season or the one following. To do that the defence needs sorted out but we're not going to do that by dropping everyone and anyone as we have no-one to replace them. So by all means come on and moan about losing games and offer opinions about the solutions (that's what fans do) but we are in danger of just rehashing old conflicts over whose pals are best to run PTFC. What "old ways" are you talking about The Board took a massive risk in appointing a Manager with Zero Experience with a Target of Promotion - that failed We have a Target this Year of Third - if we drop out of contention below Morton & Ayr -the Manager Goes & the Board Members who appointed him go along with him We do not appoint another inexperienced "legend" We have more Cash than Morton than Ayr - Bigger Crowds & the USA Investor Money - if we are less successful than Morton & Ayr then we look at the Board Set Up We are a Football Club - its a Results Business -that applies to Team Manager - that also applies to Board Members ( they are not exempt ) - if there decisions are wrong -they step down with the Manager To Suggest that "staying in the Championship" or we "are in transition" isn't acceptable - Morton & Ayr are smaller Teams than Thistle - they are trying to get promoted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 22 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: What "old ways" are you talking about The Board took a massive risk in appointing a Manager with Zero Experience with a Target of Promotion - that failed We have a Target this Year of Third - if we drop out of contention below Morton & Ayr -the Manager Goes & the Board Members who appointed him go along with him We do not appoint another inexperienced "legend" We have more Cash than Morton than Ayr - Bigger Crowds & the USA Investor Money - if we are less successful than Morton & Ayr then we look at the Board Set Up We are a Football Club - its a Results Business -that applies to Team Manager - that also applies to Board Members ( they are not exempt ) - if there decisions are wrong -they step down with the Manager To Suggest that "staying in the Championship" or we "are in transition" isn't acceptable - Morton & Ayr are smaller Teams than Thistle - they are trying to get promoted Not sure you are right about Morton. Their stated target is a top 16 team within 3 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) If the target is third and you are third, I'm not sure it's time to talk about changing the manager. Also (and I know this is controversial) I'm not sure that failing to achieve a target is necessarily a sacking offence. I think, particularly where an employee is new to a role, continuity and opportunity for learning and correcting mistakes has value. We need to see improvement from the last 2 games, that kind of form can't continue indefinitely. But there's not a great deal of jeopardy in our position right now. Almost certainly we'll be in the Championship again next season. Doolan should be given a chance to get things right. Edited February 28 by allyo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 10 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: Not sure you are right about Morton. Their stated target is a top 16 team within 3 years. OK - a lot of people seem to forget - we are first & foremost a Football Club - our Core Mission is to play at the Highest level possible - Morton are doing just that - whilst they have a Generic Plan ( which is actually very impressive & practical ) that Plan is Promotion - there appointment of Dougie Imrie has been successful - so there looking for Promotion this Season - same as we are - same as we did last Season They are a smaller Club than Thistle showing ambition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, allyo said: If the target is third and you are third, I'm not sure it's time to talk about changing the manager. I agree - and for the Record I stated if we slip to 5th and by my measure go 6 Points below 4th - then its time for change both in Team Manager & Board Members who appointed him ( they are not exempt ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 What will happen is that after the Raith game Dools will step down Brian Graham will take over until the end of the season, he will win his next game and immediately be offered the job. Dools has failed to see that the midfield cannot support the defence simply non-existent , they don't run, track or tackle, fouling is no problem right enough. Big Muirhead is not an out and out Centre but a first class sweeper, an outright ball winning centre half is a must. Dools would do well to look at last years play offs and the results from the Queens and Ayr game, identify the one player missing who played in the Ross game missed a clear opportunity and also a penalty. the old boy network is still alive and kicking. professionalism is what is required at Firhill not the sand dancers and comic sing there is at present.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, sabbath said: What will happen is that after the Raith game Dools will step down Brian Graham will take over until the end of the season, he will win his next game and immediately be offered the job. Dools has failed to see that the midfield cannot support the defence simply non-existent , they don't run, track or tackle, fouling is no problem right enough. Big Muirhead is not an out and out Centre but a first class sweeper, an outright ball winning centre half is a must. Dools would do well to look at last years play offs and the results from the Queens and Ayr game, identify the one player missing who played in the Ross game missed a clear opportunity and also a penalty. the old boy network is still alive and kicking. professionalism is what is required at Firhill not the sand dancers and comic sing there is at present.... Translation please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, sabbath said: What will happen is that after the Raith game Dools will step down Brian Graham will take over until the end of the season, he will win his next game and immediately be offered the job. Dools has failed to see that the midfield cannot support the defence simply non-existent , they don't run, track or tackle, fouling is no problem right enough. Big Muirhead is not an out and out Centre but a first class sweeper, an outright ball winning centre half is a must. Dools would do well to look at last years play offs and the results from the Queens and Ayr game, identify the one player missing who played in the Ross game missed a clear opportunity and also a penalty. the old boy network is still alive and kicking. professionalism is what is required at Firhill not the sand dancers and comic sing there is at present.... Very happy that I'm not ITK on matters such this. Just don't have the time or interest tbh. Some fans obviously a lot more engrossed in how the club is run than me. Which is a good thing I suppose in these days of fan ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, scotty said: Translation please. My memory is so poor that I can't work out who the secret missing player is that Dools should do well to look at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 A good point being made about our midfield not assisting the defence. I've noticed in loads of games that the opposition find it alarmingly easy to progress through the middle of the field leaving our defence completely outnumbered. We signed Wiiliamson, Alston, Robinson and McInroy who all play in attacking positions and we've tried them all at various times in a more defensive position which just hasn't worked. Stanway is ok but has a long way to go to be a regular starter in that position and McBeth might be the answer long term but needs time to adjust (which we don't currently have). Bannigan is clearly struggling but even at the peak of his powers he was never a defensive midfielder. It should be a worry that Doolan didn't see the need to replace Docherty in the summer. We would have struggled to match his quality but a defensive midfielder should have been high up on the recruitment list and not the host of more forward minded players above. McCall had a decent record of recruiting players but could also be guilty of overloading with similar players and trying to shoehorn them in. Kyle Turner played most of his time under McCall out wide and only under Doolan in a more central position did he show his true potential. It must be tempting when offered decent (on playing history anyway) players to sign them on the basis you might not get better. That is something Doolan will hopefully become wise to as he gains more experience. He is still very early in his managerial career and this poor run of form is concerning. It is up to Doolan to find the ways to rectify it and that might be making some harsh decisions on who to drop etc. Archibald was too loyal to many players and they ended up costing him his job. Doolan needs to find a way to overcome this or he will quite rightly be facing the sack. A big few weeks coming up for him and the team, lets hope they can find a way through it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, fenski said: My memory is so poor that I can't work out who the secret missing player is that Dools should do well to look at? I think he is referring to the midfielder who scored a great goal up at County in the cup but who let’s be honest has not done much else of note and who was maybe lucky to get a 2 year deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: I agree - and for the Record I stated if we slip to 5th and by my measure go 6 Points below 4th - then its time for change both in Team Manager & Board Members who appointed him ( they are not exempt ) If Dundee United, Aberdeen and Ross County adopted this methodology they would have had quite a turnover in the board/chair department....as for managers, Dougie Imrie would have been toast after 10 games. Sometimes patience is a virtue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: OK - a lot of people seem to forget - we are first & foremost a Football Club - our Core Mission is to play at the Highest level possible - Morton are doing just that - whilst they have a Generic Plan ( which is actually very impressive & practical ) that Plan is Promotion - there appointment of Dougie Imrie has been successful - so there looking for Promotion this Season - same as we are - same as we did last Season They are a smaller Club than Thistle showing ambition The Morton fans were wanting Imrie sacked before Xmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenski Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, allyo said: If the target is third and you are third, I'm not sure it's time to talk about changing the manager. Also (and I know this is controversial) I'm not sure that failing to achieve a target is necessarily a sacking offence. I think, particularly where an employee is new to a role, continuity and opportunity for learning and correcting mistakes has value. We need to see improvement from the last 2 games, that kind of form can't continue indefinitely. But there's not a great deal of jeopardy in our position right now. Almost certainly we'll be in the Championship again next season. Doolan should be given a chance to get things right. Finishing 5th might actually work out better for us next season. Can begin the process of preparing for new campaign sooner, extending the right contracts early, etc. I know it sounds defeatist and would/should never be the target, but having certainty and more time can only be a good thing in terms of preparation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 (edited) 5 minutes ago, fenski said: Finishing 5th might actually work out better for us next season. Can begin the process of preparing for new campaign sooner, extending the right contracts early, etc. I know it sounds defeatist and would/should never be the target, but having certainty and more time can only be a good thing in terms of preparation. A weakness of Doolan was last year’s transfer window. Starting early is useful if you know what you are doing. If we go about resigning Jamie Sneddon, Muirhead (though rumours he has already triggered an extension)and sign more bombscare supposedly well scouted players like Williams on undeserved 2 year deals or injury prone players, or Bannigan an undeserved contract extension then he will have learned absolutely nothing Though it will have been an absolutely appalling run of form if we miss out on playoffs which will also bring questions Edited February 28 by Third Lanark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 18 minutes ago, fenski said: Finishing 5th might actually work out better for us next season. Can begin the process of preparing for new campaign sooner, extending the right contracts early, etc. I know it sounds defeatist and would/should never be the target, but having certainty and more time can only be a good thing in terms of preparation. If anyone at the club ever said this they should be hounded out the place. A couple of weeks in which practically zero transfers are conducted is not going to make our squad stronger. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 28 minutes ago, fenski said: Finishing 5th might actually work out better for us next season. Can begin the process of preparing for new campaign sooner, extending the right contracts early, etc. I know it sounds defeatist and would/should never be the target, but having certainty and more time can only be a good thing in terms of preparation. How many “ transition seasons “ do you want ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Analysing our defensive performances recently I think the common denominator unfortunately has been Luke McBeth. He wasn’t playing in the Livingston game but the error Doolan made there was the subs made right after the 2nd goal. Prior to that we had played 5 games in 2024 and only conceded 4 goals. It seems to me that the two changes to make for Saturday are the keeper and McBeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, dl1971 said: If Dundee United, Aberdeen and Ross County adopted this methodology they would have had quite a turnover in the board/chair department....as for managers, Dougie Imrie would have been toast after 10 games. Sometimes patience is a virtue. The difference is that there Directors are major shareholders in the Club - its there money to run the Club as they please Ours are not Shareholders - so normal management practice applies - you make decisions - they fail - your replaced - thats how Business Works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 19 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: - so normal management practice applies - you make decisions - they fail - your replaced - thats how Business Works That’s maybe how business worked in the Victorian age, but not in the 21st century.. Every person at every level makes mistakes except 2 categories, liars and folk who do nothing. If a culture is bred where a mistake gets you booted, then mistakes are hidden, decisions never taken and you can’t keep staff or attract staff. Plus company basically stops as no one will make that call due to it potentially being their last. The encouragement to learn from mistakes and be open about them is written into the guiding policies for most businesses within their 9001/9100 systems, HR and ethical protocols. In all the businesses I deal with I have never seen a culture of make a mistake and be fired, continually make them yes, break cardinal rules yes, but not have a culture where folk are terrified to make a decision in case it’s wrong then they are gone. And as an ex Shop Steward the movement would never had allowed that to exist either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 16 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: That’s maybe how business worked in the Victorian age, but not in the 21st century.. Every person at every level makes mistakes except 2 categories, liars and folk who do nothing. If a culture is bred where a mistake gets you booted, then mistakes are hidden, decisions never taken and you can’t keep staff or attract staff. Plus company basically stops as no one will make that call due to it potentially being their last. The encouragement to learn from mistakes and be open about them is written into the guiding policies for most businesses within their 9001/9100 systems, HR and ethical protocols. In all the businesses I deal with I have never seen a culture of make a mistake and be fired, continually make them yes, break cardinal rules yes, but not have a culture where folk are terrified to make a decision in case it’s wrong then they are gone. And as an ex Shop Steward the movement would never had allowed that to exist either. Depends what you mean by mistake …… anyway football is a results business and our aim is to get promoted. Even if we think that overcoming DU might be a stretch I think 95% of us think the budget and squad are good enough to get into the play offs and if we do then that’s an ok season and who knows we might get promoted that way. to not make the play offs is clearly failure. The question is to analyse why that happened and what to do about it. It would not in my view be a given that doolan would leave. there is a common misconception that experience is a kind of time served process the longer you do something the better you will get at it. In our context that’s not true it’s what doolan has learned from what has happened during his time as manager that’s key. Here I’m starting to have doubts, our defence has been an issue from the first league game of the season and seems to be getting worse, yet personnel, formation and tactics never seem to change. our strategy of you score we will score more can’t succeed when the opposition score 3 and 4 goals , the next few games are crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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