G SUS Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Funny how midtable Falkirk had a bigger crowd than the MotD at Crappielow Not really, they more than doubled their previous home crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Not really, they more than doubled their previous home crowd. Which was a monday night game against a highland league outfit. The fact they doubled their crowd and still only just broke the 3,000 mark I would say is very worrying for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Which was a monday night game against a highland league outfit. The fact they doubled their crowd and still only just broke the 3,000 mark I would say is very worrying for them. Sorry, i meant league crowd (v Airdrie). They have always had a low crowd since they consolidated in the first division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briogadh Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Which was a monday night game against a highland league outfit. The fact they doubled their crowd and still only just broke the 3,000 mark I would say is very worrying for them. And Douglas Rae in todays Herald agrees. Their average this season is less than 1400 , compared with their average in the Second Division of 2,800. He makes the obvious point that attendances of that level cannot possibly sustain full-time football. ( And Thistle's capability of doing the same in the First Division is likewise in doubt.) Another example of how the SPL is squeezing the life out of ambitious clubs in the next tier. The situation.unique in Europe ( the world?) of 'one up' without even a play-off is an absolute scandaL, Since it is pointless waiting for Scottish authorities to do anything, it's surely time for UEFA to intervene directly ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Given that our attendances have been on a slow downward spiral over the years, even so I think our travelling support would be a huge loss to the 1st Div if we were to get promotion this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Our attendances are improving this season. Especially compared with the last couple of seasons. Bottom line is that winning and winning well puts bums on seats more than any iniatives, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 And Douglas Rae in todays Herald agrees. Their average this season is less than 1400 , compared with their average in the Second Division of 2,800. He makes the obvious point that attendances of that level cannot possibly sustain full-time football. ( And Thistle's capability of doing the same in the First Division is likewise in doubt.) Another example of how the SPL is squeezing the life out of ambitious clubs in the next tier. The situation.unique in Europe ( the world?) of 'one up' without even a play-off is an absolute scandaL, Since it is pointless waiting for Scottish authorities to do anything, it's surely time for UEFA to intervene directly ? A winning team get's big crowds. What a surprise. Look at how poorly they have done since coming back to SFL1. That's why fans leave. They want success. UEFA intervening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briogadh Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 A winning team get's big crowds. What a surprise. Look at how poorly they have done since coming back to SFL1. That's why fans leave. They want success. UEFA invening? So why are Morton not benefitting from big crowds this season when they are clearly a 'winning team'? The malaise is deeper than that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p12tfc Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Dont know what kind of crowd to expect on wednesday. For my job im in and out a lot of offices and a few of them took christmas eve off but are returning a day earlier ( wednesday ) as a result. Anyone on here in that position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 So why are Morton not benefitting from big crowds this season when they are clearly a 'winning team'? The malaise is deeper than that.. Because they have creeped up largely unnoticed. How many people knew it was 1 defeat from 18, before the BBC broadcast it on Saturday? I sure as hell didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briogadh Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Because they have creeped up largely unnoticed. How many people knew it was 1 defeat from 18, before the BBC broadcast it on Saturday? I sure as hell didn't. Surely you're not saying that their supportters didn't notice ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 Surely you're not saying that their supportters didn't notice ! They have a core support, like Thistle. That core support is low, like Thistles. The casual fan would look at the league table and think "nah i'll leave it". It takes a season to lose a fan, it's takes decades to win them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 They have a core support, like Thistle. That core support is low, like Thistles. The casual fan would look at the league table and think "nah i'll leave it". It takes a season to lose a fan, it's takes decades to win them back. For me it was two years, so..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G SUS Posted December 31, 2012 Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 For me it was two years, so..... Yes but after 5 years of mediocrity, what's to entice them back now? They were top of the league for a while last year and faded away. It might happen again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 1, 2013 Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Yes but after 5 years of mediocrity, what's to entice them back now? They were top of the league for a while last year and faded away. It might happen again. Let's all hope so! Personally, I'd like to see them in a spectacular collapse, rather than a gradual fade away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted January 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Even when the Jags aren't playing, the attendances elsewhere are quite interesting! The Fife derby between Dunfie and Raith attracted 5835 fans - very good for SFL1 It was better than the SPL derby between Tractor Boys and Dundee - 5055. And SFL1 Morton v Dumbie - well done, Dumbie! - pulled in 2414, which was only just short of SFL3 Annan v Sevco - 2441. SFL1 Airdrie v Cowden - 776 - was poor, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_jag Posted January 3, 2013 Report Share Posted January 3, 2013 Even when the Jags aren't playing, the attendances elsewhere are quite interesting! The Fife derby between Dunfie and Raith attracted 5835 fans - very good for SFL1 It was better than the SPL derby between Tractor Boys and Dundee - 5055. And SFL1 Morton v Dumbie - well done, Dumbie! - pulled in 2414, which was only just short of SFL3 Annan v Sevco - 2441. SFL1 Airdrie v Cowden - 776 - was poor, however. As I said last week how do you decide what attendance was poor and what attendance was very good? What are you basing this on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted January 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 The assessments are not based on anything specific, but are a reasoned view on where Scottish football should be aiming if it wants to survive! I hope that - like everyone else - I am permitted to have such a view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 IMO the only comparisons are with previous years attendances. Our crowds are a bit up on last year, if we continue to play good football and are near (or at) the top of the league then we will hopefully get crowds over 3000 regularly and over 5000 for the "bigger" games v Morton and Dunfermline. Things are positive round Firhill at the moment and Thistle are putting in a ton of work in trying to attract new and old fans back to Firhill. The work needs to continue though to get more people coming through the gates, the Kids for Free is something that all clubs should be looking at. Yeah it may be a short term hit to income but medium to long term it will be more income for clubs and will attract more fans to the games. Crowds in general are going to be down compared to years ago , people have so many other things to do on Saturdays while a sizeable % now work at least part of the weekends. We are no longer doing 9-5 Mon to Fri as a standard week for everyone and that will affect how many people can get to games. Thats why I would like to see a couple more Friday night games to see what that does to crowds. Also the SFL missed a massive chance with the zRangers fiasco and subsequent TV negotiations should have included some sort of deal to cover a couple of SFL1 games live or even a 30 mins weekly highlights package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 The assessments are not based on anything specific, but are a reasoned view on where Scottish football should be aiming if it wants to survive! I hope that - like everyone else - I am permitted to have such a view. Your assessments aren't based on anything specific? so you don't take into consideration previous trends, weather, time of year, opposition, travelling support. or what the home club has budgeted for this season... it's just a blanket, "this attendance is good/bad". There's no problem in you having a view point. However, you say it's a reasoned view on where Scottish football should be aiming if it wants to survive. Yet i'm pretty sure you very rarley if ever suggest what a target(aim) should be for these clubs who you deem have an unacceptable attendance. Or give your opinion on solutions scottish football should act upon to improve attendances. Lets be honest, you could take Thistle as an example and pretty much look at every home crowd bar Falkirk/Dunfermline/Morton games and say that for a team in the middle of a promotion battle, our crowds are unacceptable, and therefore people in glass houses etc. Surely it's down to each individual club how they budget for the year that determines what an acceptable crowd is. Whilst you might suggest a crowd of X hundred at an Airdrie game is unacceptable, to Airdrie it may be more than acceptable due to what they have budgeted for? Again, just my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 The assessments are not based on anything specific, but are a reasoned view on where Scottish football should be aiming if it wants to survive! I hope that - like everyone else - I am permitted to have such a view. Think yersel lucky; ol' Sigesige00 got himself banned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little_miss_jag Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) The assessments are not based on anything specific, but are a reasoned view on where Scottish football should be aiming if it wants to survive! I hope that - like everyone else - I am permitted to have such a view. Have an opinion nobody is saying don't. But as PT has just said don't just say this is good or this is bad. How do you know? What are you using to decide that? I don't think our attendances are so brilliant that we can slag of other clubs attendances. Infact if you look at all of Airdries home attendances so far this season, the only way they have got more than 800 -900 is if the away team bring a big crowd i.e us and Dunfemrline. So infact the Airdrie attendance is actually not the worst it could be and is not poor, just below average! Edited January 4, 2013 by little_miss_jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted January 4, 2013 Report Share Posted January 4, 2013 Airdrie's problems started when they knocked down Broomfield and went on the road or all those years. When they were at Broadwood, I think their attendance was 1100 or 1200. My feeling is that their crowds of 700 to 800 is poor based on recent history. Incidentally, I also think that our crowds are poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Your assessments aren't based on anything specific? so you don't take into consideration previous trends, weather, time of year, opposition, travelling support. or what the home club has budgeted for this season... it's just a blanket, "this attendance is good/bad". There's no problem in you having a view point. However, you say it's a reasoned view on where Scottish football should be aiming if it wants to survive. Yet i'm pretty sure you very rarley if ever suggest what a target(aim) should be for these clubs who you deem have an unacceptable attendance. Or give your opinion on solutions scottish football should act upon to improve attendances. Lets be honest, you could take Thistle as an example and pretty much look at every home crowd bar Falkirk/Dunfermline/Morton games and say that for a team in the middle of a promotion battle, our crowds are unacceptable, and therefore people in glass houses etc. Surely it's down to each individual club how they budget for the year that determines what an acceptable crowd is. Whilst you might suggest a crowd of X hundred at an Airdrie game is unacceptable, to Airdrie it may be more than acceptable due to what they have budgeted for? Again, just my opinion. I would say that the ideal would be something along the lines of the crowds that teams like ptfc where getting when football crowds were more evenly distributed between the clubs rather than the concentration of the old firm. The book 'Roar of the Crowd' is a really good (but very geeky) book that details the average crowd levels for all scottish teams since the early 1900s. What was surprising for me at the time of reading it was that partick thistle for significant periods of the early days had crowds that were some seasons not far off the old firm and in a few seasons where bigger than celtics. The crowds that Dundee got back in the day is a more famous example though. Anyways, one of the main conclusions of the book was to challenge the notion that scottish football didn't have much bigger crowds in teh good old days like the way we like to imagine. Indeed in the post Murray/Mcann era more people go to football than ever. The only problem, from our point of view, is that the distrobution of said crowds is concentrated in a rather unhealthy way towards the OF. Whats interesting is that despite there being lots of other entertainments available football continues to have similar, if not greater, crowd levels than the hey day. As for whether that concetration can be reversed, i think it would be very difficult to happen, would require a completely different way of organising scottish football, and how its articulated in teh media. What happened to rangers i think potentially could have shaken the ground for a grand revision of football that would be beneficial to the development of a more healthy sort, but sadly it looks like the potential for that to happen isnt really getting off the ground. So within the parameters of the status quo, i think long term it would be great to get a 5000 average crowd, which i think would be a very hard thing to achieve. And obviously im still of the opinion that the best thing ptfc could do would be to join the english pyramid Edited January 5, 2013 by mrD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 5, 2013 Report Share Posted January 5, 2013 What was surprising for me at the time of reading it was that partick thistle for significant periods of the early days had crowds that were some seasons not far off the old firm A part explanation could be that when rangers played away some of their support and a sizable level of neutrals came to our game. Similarly with celtic. Certainly most clubs could count on a considerable amount of neutrals turning up back then. Many away games out of the city were difficult to attend given that most folk worked on Saturday mornings. As said, only a part explanation tho'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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