Just In -- Relegation Material

[Metz]

Having calmed down a wee bit I think I can now comment on yesterday's game without resorting to expletives. The first thing I'll say is that over the ninety minutes we didn't play that badly. Unfortunately, some of our players are going to have to learn to sink or swim and quickly. I'm not going to rush into a wholesale demolition of the management or of the team I can see no point or indeed justification for it. Not that I'm not annoyed that yet again we've let three points slip through our fingers, how many points have we flung away so far this season I make it 12 easily. What worried me most yesterday was that at no point, if I'm honest and despite my genuine appreciation of our play, did I think we would score. That speaks to a bit of a morale problem within the squad and I'm afraid that for their sakes they'll need to sort themselves out and quickly. To those of you, crying out for a change of tactics, I'd just like to ask what apart from getting more midfielders to support Doolan and stamping out schoolboy errors like the defending for the first goal, do we actually want or expect Archie to do. We can't sign anyone till January and let's be honest we're not exactly drowning in cash, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope of signing this much longed for, but scarcely known new forward. In simple terms I'm afraid that we'll sink or swim with our current squad, so I'm not going to waste my breath slagging off my own team. Alternatively we could all pray and hope for a miracle and a new centre forward will appear outside Firhill on Christmas Day, but in my experience miracles are thin on the ground, especially in Maryhill! In short its the same now as its always been for us Jags supporters i.e. struggle interposed by the odd season or seasons of relatives success.

Agree with almost all off this, only two points I would differ on are 1. This team unlike many before in the top flight can hold there own and are attractive to watch I can't recall many Lambie teams that were. 2. Archie needs to ask more of his squad I don't think he has given everyone a fair chance and by default the team.

[lewcal]

 

 

A passing game and defensive solidity are not mutually exclusive. I do agree that we need more of the latter, and having only one full-back bombing forward at any time is probably wise, but what's the alternative to our passing game? Hoofing it up to Doolan or Baird isn't likely to work. What we need to work on is our composure in and around the box. Whenever we get near the opposition goal our players start doing impressions of moose wearing iceskates. A few more long shots to draw out the defenders wouldn't be a bad idea either.

 

Totally agree stewarty,hoofing it would be useless. I believe attack would be the best form of defence,so what I would do and I'm no self professed tactical mastermind is revert to a more traditional 4-4-2 which would offer more in the final third and help break up stuffy teams who are now content to let us pass the ball to death in the middle third. Ditching the wing backs and having a solid back four whose jobs are to only to defend would also help. My team would look a bit like this(fitness permitting obviously).....

 

Fox

McMillan. Balatoni. Muirhead. Bannigan

 

Osborne. Welsh.

Odonnel. Taylor-Sinclair

 

Dools. Higginbotham.

[Bleeding Gums Murphy]

I feel we missed an opportunity, instead of Baird and Kerr, goals was the priority. I feel our defence is as sound as anything else the premier league has to offer but if we can’t take some pressure off then it don’t look to good. If I had more time I would scour the English leagues or secure at least a loan but was that not Archie’s job. It may be said that Baird was a striker but that was only his agent. talking

 

I don't think it's Archie's job.

 

As I said on my other post, that's part of the problem I feel, what support is Archie being given? Is there a scouting network in place within the club? I'm not sure there is. Was Bobby Dinnie not our scouting system?

 

Even so, it's not Archie's job to scour the lower leagues etc to identify targets. That's what scouts are for. Archie then takes a look for himself & says yeah or no!!

 

Or even using his contacts within the game. Again, I'm not sure he has same network as McNamara or even McCall.

 

He's done fantastically well to get us in this position but I'd like to see the BOD give him a bit more support with a proper scouting network.

 

Let Archie & co concentrate on the team.

[allyo]

 

 

Have AV and Norwich just kept doing the same thing and hoped that things would change or have they been proactive in making changes? How long should we go on before changing. I think that the confidence took a real kicking at Aberdeen, in the players and the supporters, as it doesn't seem like we are learning how to get results in this league and that is what is important. It is time to try and make us hard to beat.

 

Regarding AV and Norwich, I don't know, to be honest.

 

What I do know is that Thistle have won a league title and picked up 13 premier league points playing attractive football. Our style of football was not to blame for results against Hearts, Hibs, Killie etc. Thistle were genuinely dominant in these games and would have won if we'd taken fair share of chances, of which we made plenty. To try to rewrite it, as if the other teams in these games were happy to let us have the ball, comfortable knowing that we'd never score, is just wrong. We've had two consecutive bad games. Before yesterday we'd had one. So to suggest that we've been endlessly persevering with a formula that clearly isn't working is, in my view, inaccurate.

 

Not saying that we couldn't make a few changes, when the time is right. And I think there were mistakes yesterday. But I think confidence is a far bigger factor than poor tactics or inability, and I hope the team can get it back. Important that the fans are on side.

[Norgethistle]

Regarding AV and Norwich, I don't know, to be honest.

 

What I do know is that Thistle have won a league title and picked up 13 premier league points playing attractive football. Our style of football was not to blame for results against Hearts, Hibs, Killie etc. Thistle were genuinely dominant in these games and would have won if we'd taken fair share of chances, of which we made plenty. To try to rewrite it, as if the other teams in these games were happy to let us have the ball, comfortable knowing that we'd never score, is just wrong. We've had two consecutive bad games. Before yesterday we'd had one. So to suggest that we've been endlessly persevering with a formula that clearly isn't working is, in my view, inaccurate.

 

Not saying that we couldn't make a few changes, when the time is right. And I think there were mistakes yesterday. But I think confidence is a far bigger factor than poor tactics or inability, and I hope the team can get it back. Important that the fans are on side.

 

I disagree being more clinical and taking advantage of the tens of corners we have had in these games we would have had 9 points from these games instead of 2

[allyo]

 

 

I disagree being more clinical and taking advantage of the tens of corners we have had in these games we would have had 9 points from these games instead of 2

 

Missing chances isn't a tactic. Or a style of football. If you're asking me if I think we should stop missing chances then I'd say yes, we should. But that comes from confidence, not changing our philosophy.

[Norgethistle]

Missing chances isn't a tactic. Or a style of football. If you're asking me if I think we should stop missing chances then I'd say yes, we should. But that comes from confidence, not changing our philosophy.

 

How we attack and defend corners is a tactic

[allyo]

Fair enough. You can argue that. But it's not the plan B that everyone's talking about. Yes, I want us to tighten up at set pieces, and get better delivery into the box. But I don't want us to start believing that thistle's style of football doesn't work, or we can't cut it in this league, on the basis of a couple of bad games.

 

And the players have earned a bit of respect and patience that I'm not seeing from many on here.

[1 John Lambie]

Higginbotham needs to get off corners, his floaty ones are nae use. We did well at corners last season when whipped in, that's the way to score from corners/cause defenders problems.

[Norgethistle]

Fair enough. You can argue that. But it's not the plan B that everyone's talking about. Yes, I want us to tighten up at set pieces, and get better delivery into the box. But I don't want us to start believing that thistle's style of football doesn't work, or we can't cut it in this league, on the basis of a couple of bad games.

 

And the players have earned a bit of respect and patience that I'm not seeing from many on here.

 

We need to be able to switch between possession play and going direct when we need to, were a one trick pony just now and various teams (especially Aberdeen) have worked it out

[angry gaz]

Was thinking how awful our corners are and remembered after seeing the great Andy Anderson at half time, how great his near post flick ons were for the likes of Somner or McAdam to stick in the pokey.Big Andy stuck a few in himself from that move.It would be well worth resurrecting that move given how many corners we get. What a defender and servant to the club also.

 

[Hopeless Unbeliever]

We should have scored from a corner yesterday (ATS then Piccolo fluffing it), we should have scored from a corner against Celtic (Balatoni) we had one cleared off the line from a corner against Hibs (Balatoni again) and scored from one against Ross County. Our inability to defend set pieces into the box is far more of an issue than our ability to cause problems from our own set plays. I'm not sure you can argue that's a tactical issue, just inexperienced/poor play being taken advantage of by opposition more clinical than we have faced before.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Higginbotham needs to get off corners, his floaty ones are nae use. We did well at corners last season when whipped in, that's the way to score from corners/cause defenders problems.

 

In the absence of Forbes I'd have thought Bannigan could take corners from the right and perhaps Craigen from the left. Higginbotham would be better employed in the box anyway.Seems to be decent enough in the air as well. The only other guy that takes a useful corner is Baird.

[David Stevenson]

I spoke to Craigen and said to him this is his season, but all I’ve seen so far is back passes and square balls. If he can’t work on his game he will go the same road as so many others.

I bet he was delighted to get the thumbs up from you, but I assume you missed his involvement in goals against Celtic and Inverness recently then? As to your comments on Doolan: not worth a response.

[Paulo]

This thread made an interesting read so far. The range from wild overreaction to blind faith is entertaining.

 

I notice 2 things about this team, at this level.

 

1 - We don't move the ball quick enough at home. By the time we're playing a pass to Craigen/Lawless/Higgy/Doolan etc....we're playing it into an area with 8 defenders. Easy to play against.

 

2 - We want to play like Barcelona or Arsenal. Very commendable and I like that willingness. Thing is, the one thing that both these teams do is fight to win the ball back. When they lose the ball during one of their lovely passing moves, they swarm around it, biting at ankles and showing some urgency to get a foot in and win it back. I only see this from 2 guys in our starting line up with any sort of consistency, and it is coincidentally the 2 guys with experience at this level - Higgy and Osbourne. Of the rest, probably Doolan deserves an honourable mention for his willingness to tackle.

 

Don't get me wrong, every one of them run themselves into the ground tracking players and getting back. But that's not enough. We saw it against Aberdeen, and again on Saturday. Just standing beside a guy won't make him give you the ball.

[Albert's Ghost]

2 - We want to play like Barcelona or Arsenal. Very commendable and I like that willingness. Thing is, the one thing that both these teams do is fight to win the ball back. When they lose the ball during one of their lovely passing moves, they swarm around it, biting at ankles and showing some urgency to get a foot in and win it back. I only see this from 2 guys in our starting line up with any sort of consistency, and it is coincidentally the 2 guys with experience at this level - Higgy and Osbourne. Of the rest, probably Doolan deserves an honourable mention for his willingness to tackle.

 

Don't forget O'Donnell...

[Paulo]

Don't forget O'Donnell...

 

Sorry, I should have clarified....'win THE BALL'.

[Jaggernaut]

Totally agree stewarty,hoofing it would be useless. I believe attack would be the best form of defence,so what I would do and I'm no self professed tactical mastermind is revert to a more traditional 4-4-2 which would offer more in the final third and help break up stuffy teams who are now content to let us pass the ball to death in the middle third. Ditching the wing backs and having a solid back four whose jobs are to only to defend would also help. My team would look a bit like this(fitness permitting obviously).....

 

Fox

McMillan. Balatoni. Muirhead. Bannigan

 

Osborne. Welsh.

Odonnel. Taylor-Sinclair

 

Dools. Higginbotham.

 

Interesting. I was also wondering about bringing in McMillan at right back and moving O'Donnell further forward into midfield. We know he has pace and can get into the box when he's allowed to.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

I agree with what stillresigned said. We did play alright. Defending at the corner was terrible and this really needs to be and can be resolved on the training ground. Thompson was their danger man so had to be marked better. 2 bad corners in 2 home games consecutively.

 

Muirhead can also bring the ball out from defence and again has good passing. Get him in. Osbourne is a great prescence in midfield but his distribution is not great. Could we put Forbes there with him and Osbourne protecting the back four as Forbes has great passing ability, composure and set pieces. Keep the wing play and have a "Number 10" type behind Doolan and supporting him more. This could be Higgy more central? Craigen? Watching Thistle reminds me of a lot of Scotland games where we had Miller up front and no one supporting him enough from midfield. This looks similar to Thistle as there is a gap between Doolan and the midfield.

 

When you look back at where we were in November 2011 we have came a long way and with the youth and inexperience in the team a couple of humpings is not to be surprised. On a more positive note I am still loving the fact Firhill Road is busy before the game, better attendances and the home fans are still positive - Gabby could have been targeted on mass but he wasn't which is to our credit. Still need Muirhead back!

[uberteeb]

I’m very sceptical about drastically changing a system that has seen us play the most enjoyable football in my lifetime for the past 18 months. I thought we were excellent at times on Saturday, I thought St Mirren were terrible and I am certain we will not be in 11^th place come the end of the season.

 

I’d be going for tactical adjustments rather than a completely different approach. The two main things are having midfielders run beyond the striker and our defending (and attacking) at corner kicks which is the one thing that Archie and Shaggy actually do deserve stick for, it is awful, although it’s a problem we’ve had for ages.

 

I don’t want to stay in this league by morphing into St Mirren, Killie, etc. and playing utter dross. I want to keep playing the same possession ball on the deck football, I think we can stay up by doing this, once you stay up you can try and find money for an ‘SPL striker’, the one thing we’ve all accepted we just don’t have the resources for and will need to get by without in the interim.

 

Assuming everyone accepts that we are aiming to stay up and that by definition that involves losing more games than we win ask yourself how you would like to lose them, by playing entertaining football or by playing long ball kick and rush pish?

 

I’m hoping we stick with it, stay up and turn ourselves into the type of club that is renowned for playing football the right way, the kind of club respected for playing football the right way and the kind of club who have managers applying for the job knowing that both the club and the supporters expect them to play the right way… and doing all this while bringing through our own players. Maybe I’m just too optimistic and I’ll be joining the calls for sitting deep and punting it long in a couple of months.

[potty trained]

Spot on Uber.

 

It amazes me the short term view of some of the folk on here. Frankly, some of the posts over the weekend, especially on this thread beggar belief.

 

Make no mistake, St Mirren are the definition of Anti Football. For a team pf players, the majority of which are earning 4 and 5 times as much as ours, to come to the newly promoted teams ground and play like that is disgusting. Hats off to their travelling support, i have no idea why anyone would consider paying to watch that.

 

Secondly the referee, possible the most inept performance i've seen from an official at Firhill in many a year. So many wrong decisions, so many times he stoped the flow of play when both teams tried to take a quick free kick.

 

Our fans? well wasn't that a big dose of egg on yer face with the "yer just a sh!te Greenock Morton" getting sung at 0-0, 15 minutes into the game. as for the continued abuse of Picollo, it seems we have a new scape goat. So much so that he's now getting blamed for Ballatoni's errors. (Picollo was marking MacAusland at their corners, not Thompson).

 

Ballatoni at fault for 2 goals on saturday, but folk want to keep harping on about a lad who's just stepped up from the Spannish youth leagues, moving to a foreign country. Yet week on week fans defend players because they "deserve some loyalty" for last season. if you are into the blame game, at least get your facts straight and treat everyone equally.

 

I said a few weeks ago that i'm proud of this team and the style of play we employ, we are being entertained as fans and it is a pleasure to watch. Now folk want us to abandon that because we are going through a tough patch. i really don't understand some folk. lets get this straight, by a country mile, we have the lowest wage in the league, we can not compete with anyone else for players. People wanted Harkins, St Mirren offered him 5 times as much what we were offering! St Mirren have enough for 1 high earner and a squad player left in their budget... thats the equivilant of maybe 5 or 6 Thistle players.... They have 1 first team striker in their squad... so who do you think has more chance of signing this mythical striker we all seem to think will bring us success.... Because we aren't the only one's looking!

 

On saturday there was maybe 3000-3500 Thistle fans in the crowd for what could be called a derby! 3000, when we are in the top league playing great football. What sort of crowd would people expect as we head into winter, colder saturday afternoons, and adopt a long ball, 10 men behind the ball approach thats been called for? who in their right mind wants to watch that, after the last 18 months? folk would walk away in their droves!

 

Do you want to watch a team that plays like St Mirren?

 

We have a team of gifted individuals, some are excelling, probably ones we wouldn't have expected to. The one's we did, aren't... But thats life, thats being a Thistle fan. The main failing i can see as a team attacking, is the lack of men we get in the box... countless times on Saturday we had players wide, attacking at pace, with only Doolan or Craigan to hit, with 6 St Mirren players and a keeper in their way.

 

Some folk need to take stock of where we are and how quickly we've got there. then realise that a good Thistle team, i mean a really good Thistle team, only comes around once a decade, and at best lasts for 3 years... so enjoy it while it lasts....

[ian_mac]

So I take it everyone has watched the highlights. Big gabby did not have a good game. But, stonewall fact, Balatoni is blatantly at fault for 2 of the 3 goals. ATS out of position for the other. The problem we have right now is the WHOLE defence, not just gabby. How many times as Conrad lost his footing recently? He was nowhere near Thomson for either of his goals, yet all we hear about on here is how bad gabby is.

 

Conrad had a shocker, more so than gabby.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ian_mac

[mhs]

So I take it everyone has watched the highlights. Big gabby did not have a good game. But, stonewall fact, Balatoni is blatantly at fault for 2 of the 3 goals. ATS out of position for the other. The problem we have right now is the WHOLE defence, not just gabby. How many times as Conrad lost his footing recently? He was nowhere near Thomson for either of his goals, yet all we hear about on here is how bad gabby is.

 

Conrad had a shocker, more so than gabby.

 

I agree that Conrad was largely at fault for two of the goals - no denying that.

 

However, I do believe Gabby's presence saps confidence from the defence and the team in general. We just look more vulnerable and more shaky when he starts, even Fox looks less confident.

 

The partnership of Muirhead and Balatoni has only conceded more than 1 league goal once, so far this season - against the current Champions. This partnership is also responsible for our only clean sheet in the league.

 

The starting partnership of Gabby plus one has conceded 10 goals in only 3 league games. Granted, Gabby was not on the pitch for conceding all three goals against St Mirren but we all agree that the first goal is crucial in matches.

Edited November 11, 2013 by mhs

[angry gaz]

So I take it everyone has watched the highlights. Big gabby did not have a good game. But, stonewall fact, Balatoni is blatantly at fault for 2 of the 3 goals. ATS out of position for the other. The problem we have right now is the WHOLE defence, not just gabby. How many times as Conrad lost his footing recently? He was nowhere near Thomson for either of his goals, yet all we hear about on here is how bad gabby is.

Conrad had a shocker, more so than gabby.

 

Have to agree with that.Gabby got away with some shocking passes too but the whole defence is ropey at the moment.I feel one of the main probles is pushing both full backs up at the same time.We're getting caught out constantly by this.All it's taking is one good ball over the top and we have our two central defenders totally exposed and getting pulled out of position which is leading to them making mistakes. For me the first priority of a full back is to stop crosses coming in.

[potty trained]

 

 

However, I do believe Gabby's presence saps confidence from the defence and the team in general.

 

 

And yet when you watch them play, every player in the team, including Fox is happy to pass to him even when others are available.

 

 

We can make up stats about what happenned in these games when he played, and what happenned in this game when he didn't...

 

But none of the goals up at aberdeen were his fault and none of the goals on saturday were his fault. Although the cebtral defensive partnership alters, the left and right backs have been constant, regardless of the games, so should they shoulder the blame?

 

Individual errors are happenning all over the pitch from different players. Picollo's probably at fault individually, for the same amount as Balatoni or Muirhead individually. However he gets singled out as the new boy..... Balatoni and Muirhead were great together last season, so it must be Gabby's fault.