Big Col Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Mate not sure if you were at the game or not yesterday but your comments regarding Archie being a chump are way off the mark. He may have got his selection wrong yesterday, however he hasn't made as many "balls ups" as you have on this forum. Don't know what "balls ups" you are referring to. But maybe you should concern yourself with team matters instead of having pops at fellow fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 EK Thistle weren't playing today, big chap . Apologies. I stand corrected. But you get the gist of my point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 I dunno, chompin at the bit for an answer..... but a bit of perspective. Dunfermline - Capitulation to the old firm and Hibs on their grand days out and vanquished to third tier football. Would maybe have traded one of their final defeats for play-off success at the first time of asking, successive promotions or winning the championship? Airdrie - That'll be "Airdrieonians F.C.(old)"? Not Airdrie United or whatever this just returned to full time football club call themselves these days. St. Johnstone - had to wait about 130 years for their first final. ICT - 2 finals in two years.... their first 2. Killie - meh... If i were a killie fan i'd do my best to keep it a secret from the grand weans. Falkirk - Boast all you like about your scottish cup form... impressive.... East Fife still your league cup bogey team? Ayr - Pumped by the 'orrible 'un live on TV while the whole nation watches... sounds like the nightmare scenario to me. I'm getting bored now..... but I'll finish with Gretna.... F**kin Gretna!!! .... Nah mate.... Keep yer Scottish cup romance!! edit We are Thistle - No shame in our game! Sorry all these teams plus more have made it to the final in my lifetime, we now have a couple of generations who have never been to a proper cup final, one trip to hampden for a semi final in 37 years. What would a trip to Hampden (even a cup win) do for not only my generation (I'm 41!!!!) but the up and coming youngsters, it could revitalize our dwindling support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Carlos I Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Most of what you post is quite entertaining. However, what's your view on this? Was privileged to be there in 1971 - and with each increasing year I realise how privileged I have been to have witnessed that. But - yesterday's tactics aside - why cannot our current generation of fans have the same expectation? If it's been good enough for Gretna, ICT, Dross and Livingston, three of whom didn't even exist the last time we made a major final, then why not us? We continually play this wee team, no money, can only pay so much mentality. And yet clubs with less of a base than we have had have achieved so much more in cup competitions this century. As Norge said - when is it our turn? It's our 3rd season back in the top division, and we're hardly world beaters. We've never been a club that can have any assumption of reaching finals and never will be. It would be a massive bonus if we do get 'our turn', and we might if we have a bit of form and a bit of luck with the draw. This borderline entitlement stuff is repellent. What team do you think you support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Most of what you post is quite entertaining. However, what's your view on this? Was privileged to be there in 1971 - and with each increasing year I realise how privileged I have been to have witnessed that. But - yesterday's tactics aside - why cannot our current generation of fans have the same expectation? If it's been good enough for Gretna, ICT, Dross and Livingston, three of whom didn't even exist the last time we made a major final, then why not us? We continually play this wee team, no money, can only pay so much mentality. And yet clubs with less of a base than we have had have achieved so much more in cup competitions this century. As Norge said - when is it our turn? I wasn't at the '71 cup final. However, my understanding is it was quite the revelation of the day that a team of part timers only just promoted to the old 18 team first division, had made the final at all let alone batter 4 past the at the time European cup contenders. That we ended the following season, finishing 13th in the league, giving up our defence of our cup to East Fife, papped out the Scottish cup 1 - 5 at home to Ayr, and unable to make any advance, or even score a goal in the European competition our cup victory had led to, a suggested "expectation" of regular cup competition silverware for the class of '71 generation of fans, if it ever really existed, is perhaps sadly naive. I don't think anyone is playing a game by stating we have no money and can only pay so much in our efforts to build a decent competitive football club. I think it is very true and a responsible and respectable way to go about our business, and one that has brought us considerable, indeed admirable, success and progress over the past two decades in particular. There is no question that winning cup competitions can potentially be great for the business side of things and absolutely be beneficial to prestige, reputation and stature of our sporting achievements. However, to my mind, placing domestic cup glory above as anything like essential or on the level to a consistent and improving top league berth is setting our standards lower than the potential we could realise. A cup win would be a great achievement and something we would all surely celebrate and revel in. Building, consolidating and improving our league competitiveness offers many more and varied opportunities and many more great days oot for the weans. St. Johnstone won the Scottish cup in their first final. This was during their 5th consecutive season in the top flight, and finishing the previous years 8th 8th 6th and 3rd. This is only our 3rd season in the top flight ( only our 9th in the 30 odd years I've been going ) having finish 10th and 8th. I'd say we are neither a "big" or a "wee" club, however, winning a cup would not entitle us to claim or repeal either tag others may wish to label us with. Simply getting to a final for a big day oot but falling at the last hurdle could add fuel to those that would argue we are a "wee" team who cannae cut the big time. I am frustrated that we lack cup success. I'm disappointed about saturday's result and have questions about the way we tackled the tie. But, I'm not ready to use either as a stick to beat the club with, which is what I am seeing here. We're in as good a place now as we have ever been since I have been a fan. As someone else alluded to, Tynecastle 5/4/14, I'd take that over a potential hampden final let down anyday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Sorry all these teams plus more have made it to the final in my lifetime, we now have a couple of generations who have never been to a proper cup final, one trip to hampden for a semi final in 37 years. What would a trip to Hampden (even a cup win) do for not only my generation (I'm 41!!!!) but the up and coming youngsters, it could revitalize our dwindling support Just like it has done for St Mirren 2013 league cup champions? .... Was, "What a shitey home support" really out of order when we put them out the cup weeks ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Don't know what "balls ups" you are referring to. Remember back in september, you were asked what credible alternatives there were out there if the Club took your suggestion on board and sacked Archie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Yawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Remember back in september, you were asked what credible alternatives there were out there if the Club took your suggestion on board and sacked Archie? Keeping tabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 OK, OK, not that one? Cause that was funny. What about further back when you wanted Ian McCall sacked, but then came back and admitted you got it wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 You do seem to have an unhealthy obsession. Should I be concerned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Seems on here you're not allowed to criticise Archie at all, that can't be right after all it's a forum. There has been times when I' ve wondered about team selections Saturday being one of them and the Celtic game at Firhill when he played Stevenson upfront another. There was a thread on the forum about marketing , how do you market a team that isn't expansive in the way they play football and for most of the season have ground out results ( Kilmarnock game excepted ) . At some point in the future we've got to push on and get some entertainment and excitement back into the team to get supporters coming back, whether that's with Archie or without who knows ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) You do seem to have an unhealthy obsession. Should I be concerned? No, there's no reason to be concerned. After all, all I did was provide you with some clarification. It's a forum after all, if you can't help folk out, what's the point? Edited February 7, 2016 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millicent fritten Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 7 wins 3 draws and 6 defeats in the 16 games in all competitions since we beat dundee utd 3-0 at firhill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Seems on here you're not allowed to criticise Archie at all, that can't be right after all it's a forum. There has been times when I' ve wondered about team selections Saturday being one of them and the Celtic game at Firhill when he played Stevenson upfront another. There was a thread on the forum about marketing , how do you market a team that isn't expansive in the way they play football and for most of the season have ground out results ( Kilmarnock game excepted ) . At some point in the future we've got to push on and get some entertainment and excitement back into the team to get supporters coming back, whether that's with Archie or without who knows ? Again, a bit of perspective please. I'm not aware of any case of a post being removed or poster banned for criticising the gaffer on this very well presented and reasonably open forum. If people choose to criticise they should be expectant of a defence being made. As for marketing... Although, no doubt, there is much that would improve and assist, both on and off the field, our commercial practises, I think we have made huge strides in this area. For example, none less so than our top flight survival, which to many in the press and general public came as a bit of a surprise and "Kingsley" which has been a relative success for many reasons, despite a few doubters and those unwilling to put faith or pride in what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Again, a bit of perspective please. I'm not aware of any case of a post being removed or poster banned for criticising the gaffer on this very well presented and reasonably open forum. If people choose to criticise they should be expectant of a defence being made. As for marketing... Although, no doubt, there is much that would improve and assist, both on and off the field, our commercial practises, I think we have made huge strides in this area. For example, none less so than our top flight survival, which to many in the press and general public came as a bit of a surprise and "Kingsley" which has been a relative success for many reasons, despite a few doubters and those unwilling to put faith or pride in what we do. I understand all that but in terms of marketing a football match which is after all the primary reason we all go to a game how do you market the style of football we've played for the majority of the season , ground out results , lack of goals etc.People like to be entertained on the park not really to see " Kingsley " which is really a byproduct of what we do off the park . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I understand all that but in terms of marketing a football match which is after all the primary reason we all go to a game how do you market the style of football we've played for the majority of the season , ground out results , lack of goals etc. People like to be entertained on the park not really to see " Kingsley " which is really a byproduct of what we do off the park . I'd tend to agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. In fact I've beat that drum many times. Usually the response from folk is... It's results that count. In my opinion we've been honking to watch, probably since the county 1-0 win. But, if you take St Johnstone as a bench mark, I can't remember them ever being good to watch. But... They grind out results that see them finish in a European place. Many of our fans have aspirations for our club to be like them. It may be the case that to get they are, in this league, you need to play like this. Which is a pity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Archibald has done incredibly well for the club since he took over. Even when we were suffering that appalling start to the season, most fans were behind him and were delighted when we turned things around. We emerged from the transfer window with loads of positive feeling around the club and that was further boosted with the last minute winner against Motherwell. And then the team was announced on Saturday. Three centre halves against the bottom team in the league? I get how it's meant to work and Booth is very effective on the over-lap, but Gary Millar as a wing-back? And Bannigan has a lot to offer in an attacking sense from midfield, but Sean Welsh as an attacking midfielder? (And, yes, I know we almost scored if Welsh had just got his foot to the ball when that chance came up, but how many times is he 'just' short of being in the right place on these occasions?) So we're left with Lawless and Doolan trying to create some kind of goal threat. Just them, really. This was a disaster of a game. Not because we failed to make any significant progress in a cup - again - but because it shows a dreadful fearfulness on the part of the manager and coaching staff. Are we that scared to lose? We were all desperate to see this wonder kid who'll give us an attacking threat from midfield and a new attacker who has scored a fair number of goals in his recent outings and what do we get instead? Three at the f@@@ng back! My biggest fear now is that the manger will persevere with this. Why not? If he thinks it's the right way to go against Dundee United, surely it's on the cards for Hearts and Aberdeen. The positive feeling has pretty much disappeared. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaf Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I hate watching St Johnstone matches as much as anyone but I would point out their goals scored column in the league this season has 39 next to it. Ours has 22. They have scored away to Celtic and scored in each of their last three games against three of the form teams in the country. They might be honking to watch any time we play them but if goals are entertainment they are streets ahead of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blues Brother Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 As I left Tannadice on Saturday, yes I was pi!ssed off at the result, the on field setup and the sheer grimness of the 90 minutes I had witnessed. I looked at the faces of the Arab fans all around me and there wasn't many smiles. Would they swap their league position with us and being knocked out the cup ? You better believe it! Archie doesn't always get it right, but his results are getting better with every passing year. Maybe we should do well to remember that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 This was a disaster of a game. Not because we failed to make any significant progress in a cup - again - but because it shows a dreadful fearfulness on the part of the manager and coaching staff. Are we that scared to lose? We were all desperate to see this wonder kid who'll give us an attacking threat from midfield and a new attacker who has scored a fair number of goals in his recent outings and what do we get instead? Three at the f@@@ng back! My biggest fear now is that the manger will persevere with this. Why not? If he thinks it's the right way to go against Dundee United, surely it's on the cards for Hearts and Aberdeen. I too have an uneasy feeling that he used Saturday's game as a rehearsal for the next couple of games: try to shut up shop and steal a draw. Of course it only takes one moment for that tactic to completely backfire, as on Saturday, and as we've seen with so many late goals against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 I hate watching St Johnstone matches as much as anyone but I would point out their goals scored column in the league this season has 39 next to it. Ours has 22. They have scored away to Celtic and scored in each of their last three games against three of the form teams in the country. They might be honking to watch any time we play them but if goals are entertainment they are streets ahead of us. I think it's been quite generally noted that Wright has changed their style of play this season - they are more open now than in previous seasons. This has led to a few defeats where they would previously have ground out a draw but they have won some games handsomely. And are in the top six. Thing is they are an established top flight club (can't recall last time they were in a relegation scrap) and money from recent transfers and cup runs has given them the security to do this. St Johnstone can maybe afford to change and be more expansive in their play because finances allow them to have more depth in their squad than us. We seem to have a perennial problem in getting another forward to cover/play with Doolan and who can score regularly. It's a matter of cash of course and St Johnston have more than that than us for the reasons stated. Hopefully someone like young Nisbet will break through soon or we sell some other youngster for enough money to allow us to get in that other reliable goal scorer. Meanwhile we have to hope Amoo, German or young Nesbitt will score a few for us. I'd be inclined to give Amoo a run at the moment as he's the only player apart from Doolan who has scored more than 1 goal (OK Lawless has 2 but you get what I mean). But like everyone else here I've no idea what's in the manager's mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) Some of the posts on this thread are staggering, even by this forum's standards. MonEhJags - get a grip. Suggesting that Archie should refund the travel costs for every fan that went up there? Are you on glue? I've never heard of anything so ridiculous. And who was the guy slagging off Archie because he's convinced Nesbitt won't get a game? What are you basing this on? You're slagging off the manager because of something you think he might do in the future. Stop for a minute and think about how ridiculous that is. Did Archie get the tactics wrong? 100% yes. But some of the reactions here are truly embarrassing. Edited February 8, 2016 by ian_mac 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 Some of the posts on this thread are staggering, even by this forum's standards. MonEhJags - get a grip. Suggesting that Archie should refund the travel costs for every fan that went up there? Are you on glue? I've never heard of anything so ridiculous. And who was the guy slagging off Archie because he's convinced Nesbitt won't get a game? What are you basing this on? You're slagging off the manager because of something you think he might do in the future. Stop for a minute and think about how ridiculous that is. Did Archie get the tactics wrong? 100% yes. But some of the reactions here are truly embarrassing. Sorry Archie..... Get a grip? I don't think its an over reaction at all. If i had called for his head maybe would have been. You wouldn't have got much change oot a ton to go up to Dundee after all the wee bits an pieces ye need to get. He plays 5 at the back with 3 defensive midfielders. I don't no wit else we expected to get from the game apart from being hard to beat but still unfortunately still managed to do just that. Do you honestly want to watch that on a cold February afternoon? We sign exciting talent and have depth back in the team which would allow us to be more attacking. Its been said before, its almost a surprise when we score at times. Its frustrating to say the least. Now obviously ye cant expect your money back but admitting being culpable might just have been acceptable. Paterson is equally culpable because when Archie told him his plan he should have gave him a gentle slap an said wits aw this nonsense aboot. By the way, it was ticket cost I suggested he reimburse, the travelling, well, that would have jist been a major inconvenience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) I too have an uneasy feeling that he used Saturday's game as a rehearsal for the next couple of games: try to shut up shop and steal a draw. Of course it only takes one moment for that tactic to completely backfire, as on Saturday, and as we've seen with so many late goals against us. Too lazy to go search out reports etc re the 1-0 win at Tannadice a few months ago. Anyway we found it incredibly difficult to break down United, who even when a goal down persisted with three at the back and two rather unadventurous wingbacks (McGowan and Dixon?). I'm not sure Archie didn't just set up similarly to stalemate and hope we had extra quality to snatch the game, with a replay not being too unwelcome. I'm not making any point other than it was a kinda negative approach that didn't pay off. I see why folk might feel it was a rehearsal for Tynecastle. There might be some truth in that but I also sense Archie thought United would be susceptible to that set up for reasons above. I can see why a similar formation might be deployed on Saturday. Tynecastle has a rather small playing surface (maybe 7-8% smaller than Firhill) which perhaps would suit that sort of system. I just feel we need to get the right wingback mirroring Booth and pushing on plus a naturally more forward playing central midfielder. There would be nothing ultra defensive about a set up that had two advanced wingbacks and two upfront supported by Edwards (or another who can play in that position). Edited February 8, 2016 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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