Killie Game 02/04/16

[angry gaz]

Do you do what I think we did, to good effect....

 

Or do you pump high balls at Pogba who was up against a guy bigger than him, for most of the game, and hope that he wins some headers?

 

 

Would you be happy for the same tactics against United next week? If we do that we will get horsed.

Even when we won the second ball it inevitably went out wide, especially after Edwards went off, resulting in an ineffectual cross.

Lets try a pass to a forwards feet once in a while to see how that works out.

Edited April 2, 2016 by angry gaz

[potty trained]

 

 

Would you be happy for the same tactics against United next week? If we do that we will get horsed.

Even when we won the second ball it inevitably went out wide, especially after Edwards went off, resulting in an ineffectual cross.

Lets try a pass to a forwards feet once in a while to see how that works out.

 

I dont know enough about United Tactics to know if that's the right way to play.

 

Watching the Derby, they are fckin Snoddy at the back. I think lawless needs to up his game and go at them instead of how he was today. I'd maybe swap him and Amoo and allow Amoo to cut inside, now that he is playing with more confidence. But then again, I don't think lawless is strong enough to defend against Rankin who seems to be playing on their left.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of Edwards/Osman/Paton saw red.

 

Re it going out wide, that's my point, we did all the hard work to good effect, won the second balls and got it out wide into space. Amoo had the beating of their left back, but was happy to accept a corner. We seemed to have a ridiculous amount of crosses defect out for a corner today. Lawless on the opposite side was hopeless and provided no support what so ever. He was not an out ball during an attack, he floated around the box not offering himself and didn't provide an option for Amoo when he was crossing from the right.

 

Edit to add, an on form Fraser is ideally suited to playing against Uniteds defence. They don't know their positions and he should be pinging balls over the top onto the on rushing lawless/Amoo.

 

It's a gamble which Fraser turns up. The player we know he can be, or the player he seems happy to be.

Edited April 3, 2016 by potty trained

[sabbath]

Must do better. The problem remains, you just can't see where the goal is going to come from. Big Pogba is sailing very close to being another Piccolo, he has the presence on the pitch, but so has a lineman, and we all know how useless they are. The wee lawman's agent continues to bum him up to get more cash out of him, but perhaps a look at Conrad and Higgy should remind him, east west hame's best, and once you leave Firhill, the only way is down.......

[eljaggo]

We can argue about players' performances yesterday and never agree. However what was evident to me at least and those around me was that Archibald showed once again his very cautious approach.

 

This has served us well, but yetserday's game needed more positive tactics to be employed given its importance w.r.t. a top six finish and the financial implications of that. Bringing Doolan on so late (again), subbing Edwards very early (was he knackered or injured?) and letting Dumbaya and Nesbitt warm the bench for the whole game seemed perverse.

 

Archie had plenty of (other) attacking options yesteday and ignored them. A safety first strategy which we saw again yesterday may secure our Premiership status for a while, but will drive fans away in the long term.

 

The game yesterday was a dreadful spectacle.

[allyo]

I'm not to concerned about a cautious approach yesterday. In terms of survival, which was always our main target, yesterday was a positive result. Now that we've got that one the way I think there is a chance to push for the top six over the next two games. Wins will be needed so hopefully we'll see more positive performances.

[Jaggernaut]

Two goals in 22 games, and some people still believe that Pogba is a decent striker?

 

I feel sorry for Doolan.

[Lenziejag]

Really poor game.Thought we started very slowly and very nervous with their free kicks.Could have been behind after only 5mins.We must start Tuesday nights game better or it could be a long night.Imo we still need a few points to make sure we don't get sucked into play off.Remember Hibs a few years ago if they had beat St.Johnstone they would have been top 6.They lost and as they say the rest is history.Also our set pieces are very poor.

 

Somebody may already have replied to this. Although I agree that we could still get dragged into the playoffs, Hibs had been in decline since the turn of the year that season. I also think that there are too many teams below us that need pick up a lot of points. Don't forget Killie need to get 10 points more than us from the remaining 6 games.

[Lenziejag]

 

 

Completely agree, there's a reason the stand was chanting Doolan 60 mins in, it's coz the big man just couldn't be arsed today. he's not alone in being rank, lawless was honking but when I see a player throw his arms in the air constantly and moaning at team mates when he can't even be bothered to attempt to win a header then surely that's got to translate onto the pitch.

 

Pass marks today for gary Miller for effort, booth as always and amoo. The Edwards sub puzzled me, his energy and fitness seem first class and I thought he was having a decent game, gary Fraser when he came on was shocking. His 30 yard effort summed it up for me. I know there's stuff behind the scenes but giving him game time at the moment is not helping.

 

End of the day a point gained not dropped based on chances, just a disappointing performance.

 

 

Of course the stands were calling for Doolan as nothing had been happening up front. But nothing happened after Doolan came on either.

The Edwards/Fraser sub didn't work, but again we neede to try something different if we were to win the game

[allyo]

 

 

Somebody may already have replied to this. Although I agree that we could still get dragged into the playoffs, Hibs had been in decline since the turn of the year that season. I also think that there are too many teams below us that need pick up a lot of points. Don't forget Killie need to get 10 points more than us from the remaining 6 games.

 

Agreed. We've just taken four points out of six from the teams who have to catch us. Not much to worry about.

With every passing game we have looked more safe. Tuesday night my main focus will be top six, for the first time. Ever.

Edited April 3, 2016 by allyo

[Firhillista]

For me, the problem isn't Pogba, it's the same issue we've struggled with all season - a lack of movement into the opposition box. Osman and Welsh (or Bannigan) sit deep with only one midfielder, Edwards or Fraser (or Nisbet or whoever), supporting the guy leading the line, Pogba or Doolan. Amoo stays out on the wing and Lawless drifts around only occasionally making a contribution (although extremely effectively when he does). It's not enough. It gives us a stable platform from which to defend, but doesn't provide any kind of launch pad for attack. Currently, the most effective attacking we do is when the fullbacks overlap, particularly when Dumbaya is playing. Previously, we were good going forward because of the amount of movement up front - we had permutations of Doolan, Lawless, Higginbotham, Erskine, Welsh, Bannigan, Elliot all moving in and around the opposition penalty box and it was very effective. And great to watch. We've sacraficed that kind of attacking flair for defensive security. It'll keep us in the division, but we need more to progress.

[Norgethistle]

From listening on the radio that Killie CH was a man mountain, so why insist on pumping high balls into him?

[marcia blaine]

Can anyone tell me what the object was of that halftime 'win a car' challenge?

 

It seemed to be to hit the ball to a certain point and unless the contestants were as poor as the players then it can't have been the goal-mouth.

 

(It was probably mentioned over the PA, but we all know how much use that was.)

[eljaggo]

I'm not to concerned about a cautious approach yesterday. In terms of survival, which was always our main target, yesterday was a positive result. Now that we've got that one the way I think there is a chance to push for the top six over the next two games. Wins will be needed so hopefully we'll see more positive performances.

Yesterday gave us a better opportunity for a win than a trip to Dingwall, and a better opportunity for three "safety" points. Yesterday was an important chance squandered for both safety and a top 6 place. That is why there is such disappointment on this thread.

[jagfaelivi]

Can't agree more with Firhillista. Good post!

 

We are a lot more stable and harder to beat but as for getting forward in numbers and getting into positions in the last third....... forget it!

 

And then, of course, corner after corner that you just know is going to be weak and easy to defend.

 

What do we do?

 

A simple thing would be to , as often as possible get forward quickly from midfield and get as many as possible into the box. If you watch, when the ball goes forward there are too many players just ambling in a forward direction and more often than not they don't get the distance of the box. Oh for Amoo, now he's got a bit more confidence, just to try to get into the box. Hearts get all those penalties because they get players into the box. What do we do? Hold the ball up well and then cross, inevitably to the one attacker waiting amidst the whole of their defence. It NEVER works but we continue to do it. Why? Surely the penny has to drop sometime?

 

[Alan Murray]

The substitution of Edwards for Fraser proved to be a big mistake. Not much came off for Edwards but his work rate was terrific and we really missed this energy when he went off. Confident he can prove to develop into a valuable player after that performance. He looks to have a great attitude to the game and I see him progressing steadily in a similar fashion to the likes of Banzo and Booth.

 

First half I felt after we settled down we were the better side with Amoo being a big threat on the right hand side. Second half Kilmarnock looked more likely. The physical side of the game did not suit us.

 

I was actually surprised Doolan came on so early. Kilmarnock was a big threat from the numerous free kicks that were being awarded and Big Pogba is a big help in defending these.

 

Thought the back line defended well and worked hard as a unit to defend a Kilmarnock team that really went for it in the closing stages of the game. We should have done much better exploiting the space offered by Killie pushing players forward. We seemed to lose the rhythm to our play in the second half.

[Charlie Endell]

Can anyone tell me what the object was of that halftime 'win a car' challenge?

 

It seemed to be to hit the ball to a certain point and unless the contestants were as poor as the players then it can't have been the goal-mouth.

 

(It was probably mentioned over the PA, but we all know how much use that was.)

The aim was to try and hit the crossbar - a nigh on impossible task (unless you're a rugby player)!

[Lenziejag]

 

Yesterday gave us a better opportunity for a win than a trip to Dingwall, and a better opportunity for three "safety" points. Yesterday was an important chance squandered for both safety and a top 6 place. That is why there is such disappointment on this thread.

 

That's true - but the potential consequences of losing were a much bigger risk.

[allyo]

Was just about to say that. I think yesterday was the last realistic possibility of us being dragged back into the relegation fight, and we avoided it. (Hope I never regret saying that)

Edited April 3, 2016 by allyo

[West Ender]

Was there a MOTM yesterday or was the announcement lost on the appalling and embarrassing PA?

[stillresigned]

 

Yesterday gave us a better opportunity for a win than a trip to Dingwall, and a better opportunity for three "safety" points. Yesterday was an important chance squandered for both safety and a top 6 place. That is why there is such disappointment on this thread.

I entirely agree, was very disappointed, but having been a Jags fan for a few years hardly a surprise. We're simply not consistent enough. That said if we beat United (a tall order on yesterday's display I'll grant you) and Dundee lose to Celtic we're right in the mix for the top six.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

When Pogba came on for the last 25 mins in the 1-0 win v Motherwell he played text book "big fella" stuff. Didn't make a single miss pass, held the ball up superbly, laying it off just as well. He came close to scoring and in all likelihood holding the ball up in their half helped us keep a clean sheet.

 

I know some will say that's just the law of probability and all duff players flatter to deceive now and again. I prefer to believe that Mathias offers plenty and, provided he's still with us, with a pre-season behind him will be an important player for us next season. I'd also hope that we get a better idea on when to start Pogba, when to go with Dools and when to play both. The latter certainly worked with that 'Well game and the away match at Pittodrie. I know it's not qualifiable but in the 2-0 win v St Johnstone I also thought Pogba did an excellent job softening up their defence prior to being replaced by Doolan who came on and immediately scored.

 

I can easily understand how some fans feel Pogba offers little to nothing but maybe they weren't at those three matches I've mentioned. He has got pass marks in other games but has had a good few ineffectual performances, which will easily divide opinion.

Edited April 3, 2016 by lady-isobel-barnett

[thebiglemon]

Can anyone tell me what the object was of that halftime 'win a car' challenge?

 

It seemed to be to hit the ball to a certain point and unless the contestants were as poor as the players then it can't have been the goal-mouth.

 

(It was probably mentioned over the PA, but we all know how much use that was.)

 

 

What a con that was. I entered thinking the thing was to be "a footballing challenge" but a least an achievable one. Never again.

 

The game was mince but it was kind of worth being there for Boyd's horrendous miss right in front of us. I'll be back on Tuesday on the assumption things will be better i.e Dumbuya in the team, Doolan from the start and United a bit more open that Killie

[Fearchar]

Can't agree more with Firhillista. Good post!

...Oh for Amoo, now he's got a bit more confidence, just to try to get into the box. Hearts get all those penalties because they get players into the box. What do we do? Hold the ball up well and then cross, inevitably to the one attacker waiting amidst the whole of their defence. It NEVER works but we continue to do it. Why? Surely the penny has to drop sometime?

 

Crosses yield very low returns, as has been discussed at length on this forum. However, we are, sadly, among the practitioners of Scottish football, whose aspirations are based on watching lower-league English football (often in the reasonable hope of picking up some affordable talent). IMHO at least our management team, and probably the players too, should be required to watch recordings of top European sides for at least 30 minutes daily. French, German, Italian and Spanish top-flight examples could provide more than enough ideas for revitalising playing styles, instead of the belief that you can win on corners and crosses. We couldn't, even if we didn't have such a poor record at corners.

 

BTW I watched two amateur German sides playing just before the Easter weekend, and while they were not as fast as our professionals, almost of their passes found their target and their tackles won possession. They could also provide a clear, simple electronic scoreboard for the spectators, showing the score and the time played. Sometimes I think we have a nominally professional setup without even the organisation of amateurs - but maybe that's because it's here rather than Germany.

[madcapmilkdrinker]

From listening on the radio that Killie CH was a man mountain, so why insist on pumping high balls into him?

 

So that Pogba couldn't compete apparently.

[avie-man]

missed the game yesterday, surprised pleasantly by the attendance, how many killie fans?